Don't you hate people who won't accept the truth?

[Hullu]

Of course, Valve could have been making it all up as they went along and not actually developed the Combine style till after HL1 was released.

This has been my impression all along - at least judging by Raising the Bar. I believe they started almost from the scratch after hl1, as regards the story, so we didn't see Combine style in hl1 because they had never even thought about the story that far. But I don't know their official statement on this.

 

[Hullu]

Its From a book by Astrid lindgren. Probably heard about her?
Tengil was an evil guy in the book Bröderna lejon hjärta. I dont realy know what the title is in English. /QUOTE]

I think it's Brothers Lionheart. I loved that book when I was a kid! Is Tengil/Tengel a common name in Swedish? Tengel was also a baddie in the series I read...

 

[Hullu]

nice how that quote turned out

 

[Sulkdodds]

Don't triple post.

 

[Eejit]

This has been my impression all along - at least judging by Raising the Bar. I believe they started almost from the scratch after hl1, as regards the story, so we didn't see Combine style in hl1 because they had never even thought about the story that far. But I don't know their official statement on this.

That doesn't make sense. Sure they wouldn't have the Combinen style thought out at the time of HL1, but if the Combine had had control of Xen they would have used the 'Xen-style' and shown the Combine using it, since it would ultimately have been theirs.

 

[Hullu]

ok ok. I'm too submit-button-happy.

 

[Hullu]

I mean I thought they hadn't thought of the whole Combine concept at all until they started working on hl2.

 

[Rizzo]

Well, here we are then, stuck in a single point, due difference in interpretation. Not even Nihilanth had any reason to be hostile towards some randomly appearing dimensional travellers, at least until he'd have confirmed their motivations and potential strength for retaliation.

I interpreted the scientist's speech in the way, that they collected samples - including vortigaunts - from Xen without major hostilities aimed against them and only stopped, when all beings under Nihi's command started in turn kidnapping and killing them.

As for the dead human bodies on Xen, I believe that they were other scientists sent to kill Nihilanth to stop the invasion, like Gordon was. You see at least one of them lying in the floor of the damn factory-complex. You'd imagine, that they'd been cleaned up, already, if they hadn't come just recently and just gotten killed.

Well i do belive Nihilanth whould just go ahead and kill random people. He has obvious fleed in to Xen, as he mumbles something about being slaves. So a random dimension traveler whould have been disposed of. We also now that Nihilanth happely toke the oppertonity to go to earth, sending an invasion force to take out the humans.

I cant realy see who those bodies could be assasins sent to take out Nihilanth. I mean, whoudnt it be better to i dont know, send some more people? As for sending in Gordon alone, that was more our last chanse kind of thing.

I think it's Brothers Lionheart. I loved that book when I was a kid! Is Tengil/Tengel a common name in Swedish? Tengel was also a baddie in the series I read...

Yeah Brothers Lionheart is a direct translation of Bröderna Lejonhjärta.
I agree, its a great book. I liked it too.
No Tengil is not a very common name

 

[Sulkdodds]

ATTENTION: THIS FORUM FEATURES AN EDIT BUTTON. USE IT TO EDIT YOUR POSTS INSTEAD OF SUBMITTING THREE MORE.

Sure they wouldn't have the Combinen style thought out at the time of HL1, but if the Combine had had control of Xen they would have used the 'Xen-style' and shown the Combine using it, since it would ultimately have been theirs.

That too!

 

[Hullu]

for a moment I thought you wrote "I do believe Nihilanth would just go shag and kill random people"

 

[Rizzo]

there. I edited.

 

[ríomhaire]

We also now that Nihilanth happely toke the oppertonity to go to earth, sending an invasion force to take out the humans.

IMO it was a retaliation force for the RC.

 

[$kelet0r]

More likely the Nihilanth realised the threat and sent grunts to Earth not as an invasion but to takeover Black Mesa and destroy the place/ stop the RC

 

[ríomhaire]

More likely the Nihilanth realised the threat and sent grunts to Earth not as an invasion but to takeover Black Mesa and destroy the place/ stop the RC

This is how I see it:
The Controllers are increasingly more agitiate by these abductions. Humans hunted down and killed on Xen. The Comtrollers probably think these aliens are gearing up to something big. Then BANG! RC, random portals are everywhere, going to the world of the aliens. Everything is probably in choas. Then they stop (satillite launch). What goes through your mind? Why did those things do that and then stop? They probably thought an attack was coming, so they retaliated.

 

[Krabjuice]

Gordon Freeman is a magnet. He attracts comic failure, death squads, ragdolls and Grunts. By some sort of subspace anomaly, his natural force of attraction catapulted legions of Grunts in his general dimension.

 

[Langolier]

What you're telling me, then, is that you reckon the Combine Forces have a different 'style' for different worlds that they invade?

I reckon that it is very possible they adapt their own technology and "style" to suite each world as needed. I reckon it's also possible they don't. While I no longer think it is likely the Combine controlled Xen (at any point), I still think that the possibility of them controlling Xen is a reasonable idea. It's easy to look at Alien Grunts and Vortiguants, and Nihilanth, and draw parllels to what we saw on Earth. ...but it's also easy to pick apart the differences. The attitude that most of you display though is one of arrogance, that gives the impression as though you actuall know for a fact that your ideas are true, when Vavle has worked hard to provide a basis for the world while still leaving it open to broad interpretation.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Well, meh, I actually quite liked the idea of the Combine controlling Xen and Nihilanth being their pawn...it works narratively, and there does initially seem to be a lot of evidence. But when said evidence mostly boils down to the vague rantings of a giant foetus, I simply don't believe it can be true in the face of the evidence against a Pre-Cascade Combine Xen.

Then again, Valve have surprised us before, and nothing can be sure.

I reckon that it is very possible they adapt their own technology and "style" to suite each world as needed.

This, at least, I regard as fact. Considering this style comes from a citadel that was teleported onto our planet pretty much as it is.

 

[Asknoone]

Well, meh, I actually quite liked the idea of the Combine controlling Xen and Nihilanth being their pawn...i.

Meh, I thought it made the story feel really quite limited and meh.

 

[Rizzo]

Well showing Nihilanth as a independent being and fleeing from the combine rather then working for them, realy opens the game up for combine concuest. And for more allies for humans and libaration of other combine controlled dimensions... Or whatever.

 

[Langolier]

This, at least, I regard as fact. Considering this style comes from a citadel that was teleported onto our planet pretty much as it is.

And pray tell, how do you know this? I've played through the game numerous times and not once was that ever mentioned. Yes, I know about Raising the Bar, but the (slide show, was it?) which detailed this happening was cut. Even if the Citadel did teleport in pre-made, that does not mean it wasn't designed to function on Earth. It would seem foolish of the Combine to attack worlds blindly without scouting them out first to see what they need to seize control.

Do armies ever just invade foreign lands without at first having a look at what they're up against? Of-course not. They get as much information as they can and then adapt as much of their invading force as is reasonably possible before they invade.

 

[Lightice]

That does not change the fact, that the Citadel and the Combine-tech are very obviously non-human in architecture and style. They certainly made no effort, whatsover, to blend in with the human structures. On the contrary, they made their presence as obvious as possible.

 

[Hullu]

hey certainly made no effort, whatsover, to blend in with the human structures. On the contrary, they made their presence as obvious as possible.

This is something I didn't really understood in Raising the Bar. Did they try to emphasize the fact that the soldiers are still partly human and not in their natural environment inside the citadel?

 

[Asknoone]

That does not change the fact, that the Citadel and the Combine-tech are very obviously non-human in architecture and style. They certainly made no effort, whatsover, to blend in with the human structures. On the contrary, they made their presence as obvious as possible.

Yeah, and thats a good thing - because it really creates some kind of conflict, or at least it did for me.

This is something I didn't really understood in Raising the Bar. Did they try to emphasize the fact that the soldiers are still partly human and not in their natural environment inside the citadel?

I thought the Overwatch soldiers looked out of place in the Citadel, that even they didn't belong there. Which is an awesome thing, because thats what Valve tried to achieve and it certainly played off. If they'd thrown more aliens in, I don't think it would have worked as well, because you wouldn't have gotten across the clash of races.

 

[ríomhaire]

Last night I went through the wiki, added neutrality tags to a few places and started and posted in a few talks.

 

[Sulkdodds]

And pray tell, how do you know this? I've played through the game numerous times and not once was that ever mentioned. Yes, I know about Raising the Bar, but the (slide show, was it?) which detailed this happening was cut. Even if the Citadel did teleport in pre-made, that does not mean it wasn't designed to function on Earth. It would seem foolish of the Combine to attack worlds blindly without scouting them out first to see what they need to seize control.

Do armies ever just invade foreign lands without at first having a look at what they're up against? Of-course not. They get as much information as they can and then adapt as much of their invading force as is reasonably possible before they invade.

They generally use the same equipment though.

And, actually, you'll notive I was agreeing with you and then you were arguing as if I hadn't.

But I didn't meant to agree with you. I meant to disagree. I must have been tired.

????????????????????????

But I will point to what Lightice said about Combine tech (and what I've been saying, perhaps less clearly - the Combine have pretty much imposed themselves on earth, so it would seem odd to me if they were also adapting the style of their core elements - which are, I supposed, the Citadel and the Synth..

In actual fact, they have adapted - at least as far as soldiers, helicopters and ground-cars go. But if this is the Combine adapting to Earth, then what about the Synth and the architecture, so utterly alien? We've got examples of both adaption and stylistic oppression to compare. I feel all the evidence points to the idea that the Combine forces are, generally speaking, homogenised.

Besides, in the context of the argument for an against Xen occupation, it should be noted that however much the Combine have adapted to earth, they would have had to adapt to a far greater extent for Xen to look like it did - considering that Combine tech on earth still stuck out like a sore thumb and would do even more so against the organic crazyness of Nihilanth's realm..

 

[Rizzo]

Yes everything on Xen was organic, and combine style is cold and metalic.

 

[Langolier]

They generally use the same equipment though.

And, actually, you'll notive I was agreeing with you and then you were arguing as if I hadn't.

But I didn't meant to agree with you. I meant to disagree. I must have been tired.

????????????????????????

Hmm. Gee. I wonder how I could've gotten confused like that.

But I will point to what Lightice said...

Let's be clear on one thing: I'm not trying to argue or debate with you. I'm simply pointing out that to many people it is still a reasonable theory to accept that the Combine were on Xen. YOU MAKE TOO MANY ASSUMPTIONS. The Devs, Laidlaw, and everyone at Valve don't want anyone guessing (correctly) any significant aspects of the story until they themselves have presented them un-disputedly in the games.

In actual fact, they have adapted - at least as far as soldiers, helicopters and ground-cars go. But if this is the Combine adapting to Earth, then what about the Synth and the architecture, so utterly alien? We've got examples of both adaption and stylistic oppression to compare. I feel all the evidence points to the idea that the Combine forces are, generally speaking, homogenised.

They don't change the structures themselves because they don't need changing. Xen is a completely different enviroment so IF they did invade Xen maybe they'd change their architecture a tad, hmm? Striders and Mortar synths might not have been too useful on Xen, the same with gunships. If the player can already accept that Gordon never saw Race-X or a Gonome because Gordon just didn't run into one, then he can assume he didn't see any of the above on Xen because he just didn't. Stop trying to defend your theory that the Combine weren't on Xen; I'm not attacking it, or trying to persuade you otherwise, just trying to get you to acknowledge that anyone who thinks differently from you isn't a moron who deserves only ridicule.

 

[Sulkdodds]

In which case, you've already achieved your objective (before this discussion started! Time paradox!), since I never said, implied or even believed that anyone who thought differently was a moron who deserved only ridicule at any point ever. I don't agree with those who assert the opposing theory, but that's my opinion, isn't it?

Stop trying to defend your theory that the Combine weren't on Xen; I'm not attacking it, or trying to persuade you otherwise

You are trying to pursuade me that it might be wrong, so I'm simply arguing what I think - that it's not.

Wow, do all these posts come off as being really terse or assholish or something? Am I giving the impression I want to spit on all the people who think the Combine were on Xen? Maybe I should use more happy smileys or something.

:E :| ;(

 

[Asknoone]

Yeah, because Sulkdodds truly hates anybody who accepts (the now DISPROVEN) Combine on Xen theory, and has a real grudge against them, and therefore see's fit to look down upon them as commoners, as though theres some elite here - thats why we must topple him with our angry, cobbled together posts.

Lets get down off the pedastels.

 

[Rizzo]

Well Sulkdodds, you do come of a bit harsh.

 

[Asknoone]

No, he doesn't.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Well, I'm not the one using block capitals. I got the impression the guy was pissed off and/or contemptuous of me, not the other way round. :/

 

[Rizzo]

Well i was onely joking.

But the subject has become rather sensitive, now when valve has denied that Combine where not on Xen.
So when the subject keeps reapearing, people get a little pissed, mad or sad.

 

[Langolier]

Well, I'm not the one using block capitals. I got the impression the guy was pissed off and/or contemptuous of me, not the other way round. :/

In response to your earlier comment: yes, you do come off that way. (as someone who holds great contempt for anyone who disagrees with you)

I wasn't trying to sound angry or infuriated. I used the blocks & capitals in one part to emphasize that point because everyone seems to ignore it. I just find it irritating and disprespectful when people crap all over one another's belief.

I don't recall seeing Valve disprove the Combine on Xen. They only said that the Xenians had likely been "chased there" or some such, not that they hadn't also been followed and persecuted there.

I do get riled up sometimes defending my own beliefs (which have no concrete position on the Combine-Xen debate) when they are treated with disrespect.

So... to get back on topic...

-------------------------------------

No, I don't hate when people "won't accept the truth" unless said truth is a scientifically proven fact and not the interpretation of someone's un-specific word. Like say God's in the Bible or a Valve Developer's on a gaming site.

 

[Sulkdodds]

In response to your earlier comment: yes, you do come off that way. (as someone who holds great contempt for anyone who disagrees with you)

How the hell did I manage that? I even said "it is unlikely the Combine were on Xen before HL1".

Happy smileys are obviously the answer.

:flame:

Damnit, wrong button.

 

[Rizzo]

You should write in green or ligh blue text. Those are warm and nice colors.