Everything you wanted to know...

[Asknoone]

Rapidshare dena work for me!

 

[ríomhaire]

To answer your question, yes, the controllers control vortigaunts telepathically, but they weren't controlling them in Black Mesa. The vortigaunts were given an order, and were teleported by the Nihilanth to carry it out. Put in on an unfamiliar and seemingly hostile world, with orders from a superior who--at the time--seemed the biggest threat, they did what they were told.

Well, the ones that arrived initially where just randomly from the resonance cascade. They're scared, they're in a very alien environment (the sterile, flat corridors of Black Mesa are a fair bit away from Xen) and there're wierd aliens everywhere. There is a great scene at the start of Blue Shift that shows an alien slave inspecting a scientist until the scientist freaks out and tries to run away and the slave zaps him.

 

[Darkside55]

I wonder about that, though. Vortigaunts had seen humans on Xen before the incident, to an extent anyway, so they weren't completely surprised by them. And if the first vortigaunts came through because of the resonance cascade, why not controllers or grunts? Assuming the Nihilanth was using his power to hold those species to the borderworld, I would think he'd do the same for the vortigaunts. I can't imagine the controllers wanting their slaves to be loosed.

Plus, the two slaves in "Xen Attacks" had a mission to retrieve the crystal, so I'd think that the vortigaunts sent in all had missions, and above all were told to exterminate humans. The very first vort you meet in Half-Life, the one who bursts out of that storage closet, is immediately hostile toward you. I know if I was blinked to an alien world and confronted with a strange creature, I'd be scared and wary, but not hostile unless the situation called for it.

 

[ríomhaire]

I wonder about that, though. Vortigaunts had seen humans on Xen before the incident, to an extent anyway, so they weren't completely surprised by them.

That's a bit like the difference between seeing a tiger on TV and then facing an one in real life.

And if the first vortigaunts came through because of the resonance cascade, why not controllers or grunts?

Because that would suck for gameplay.

Assuming the Nihilanth was using his power to hold those species to the borderworld, I would think he'd do the same for the vortigaunts. I can't imagine the controllers wanting their slaves to be loosed.

But why would only wild animals be cought in the storm and not the sentients? Nihilanth holding them back seems a bit odd if the RC was a suprise to him.

Plus, the two slaves in "Xen Attacks" had a mission to retrieve the crystal, so I'd think that the vortigaunts sent in all had missions, and above all were told to exterminate humans.

How far into the RC is Xen Attacks based does anyone know?

The very first vort you meet in Half-Life, the one who bursts out of that storage closet, is immediately hostile toward you. I know if I was blinked to an alien world and confronted with a strange creature, I'd be scared and wary, but not hostile unless the situation called for it.

Don't say that, you wouldn't have a bloody clue what you would do. Did you wait to see where the Vortigaunts friendly when you saw one (assuming of course, you hadn't read much about the game beforehand), I sure as hell didn't.

 

[Darkside55]

That's a bit like the difference between seeing a tiger on TV and then facing an one in real life.

Actually they captured a couple people before the RC happened, so I'm sure they might've had time to poke and prod. Well, the controllers would've done that bit. The vortigaunts undoubtedly had a hand in the capture, though.

Because that would suck for gameplay.

It would have. But in the context of the storyline...

But why would only wild animals be cought in the storm and not the sentients? Nihilanth holding them back seems a bit odd if the RC was a suprise to him.

Well it stands to reason that if he held back controllers and grunts he would've done the same for the vortigaunts. Other Xenian fauna came through because he didn't care.

I'd imagine that, while it took him by surprise, he wasn't completely flatfooted. Having prior knowledge of what the humans were doing, and knowing that the science team got their hands on a very powerful crystal, Nith probably set up a plan based on the "what if" scenario of the dimensional wall being torn down.

Plus we can't rule out that Nihilanth didn't intend for people to get that crystal. It would've served a few purposes, like giving them another place to run to from the Combine (put a little more distance between them) and also get some resources, more thralls, that sort of thing. As the scientists in HL sometimes ask, "Do you suspect some alien subterfuge?"

How far into the RC is Xen Attacks based does anyone know?

No idea. I'm guessing it happened almost right after.

Don't say that, you wouldn't have a bloody clue what you would do. Did you wait to see where the Vortigaunts friendly when you saw one (assuming of course, you hadn't read much about the game beforehand), I sure as hell didn't.

Actually I do know what I'd do, and it'd be that. Haha, believe me, I've got one of those daydreamer-type imaginations, and on top of that I'm actually terrified of the idea of extraterrestrials (well, of those "grays," the little gray men in saucers that cornfield hicks say come and abduct them [even though I don't really believe in their existence anyway--grays, not hicks]), so I've played out the scenario in my head a bunch of times. That's pretty much what I'd do. Terror, but not immediate hostility. Not at first.

And actually yeah, I DID wait to see if the vortigaunts were friendly, if you can believe it. When that vortigaunt was blasting through the door, I stood and stared at it, ready to shoot, and then the slave stepped out and I waited for him to make the first move. Which was, of course, to blast me with energy.

I did the same thing with houndeyes, too...I'm far too trusting, it would seem.

 

[bigburpco]

Yeah, but you're not a vort and would not therefore behave in the same manner that it would.

 

[Darkside55]

Yeah, that's true. Being able to shoot electricity from your hands would definately change the way you handle things.

 

[ríomhaire]

No idea. I'm guessing it happened almost right after.

But you fight grunts don't you?

 

[Jintor]

Yeah, that's true. Being able to shoot electricity from your hands would definately change the way you handle things.

And for another thing, you're giving the Vorts human characteristics, which you can't automatically assume. ><

 

[Darkside55]

But you fight grunts don't you?

I believe so. I don't have the game handy to check, unfortunately. Here's hoping Valve will eventually get it out on Steam...didn't they say they were going to?

And for another thing, you're giving the Vorts human characteristics, which you can't automatically assume. ><

But they do, in a way. When I started writing this paper it kept striking me how similar we behave. Given what we know about their behavior, sure they would have been a little hostile naturally, that's a given, being placed in an unfamiliar situation with creatures who, up until this point, you've had a handle on. To bring up Riom's "tiger" analogy, in this case it's less like seeing a tiger on TV but rather seeing a tiger up close, in confinement, on your own turf. In Black Mesa, there were a bunch of tigers loose and you were on their terms.

But I think if we would've met under different circumstances, if they didn't have their orders, they wouldn't have immediately started blasting us. Especially unarmed civilians. It's dishonorable. It's a complete "What If" scenario, but I think that if the resonance cascade happened and free vortigaunts came through, we would've hit it off that much sooner. At least, the vortigaunts and the scientists.

 

[Black_Knight]

Doing a little wayback, but I doubt that's a problem... Is it?

Going back to the Headcrab stage of taking over the host.

I wanted to make a comment on how the headcrab most likely takes control of the host. I believe that the Headcrab's "beaks" are used to not puncture through the skull, but through the eye sockets because it offers the least resistance, disables the host further so their will is further broken to fight back, and it's the fastest path to the brain. And because that, it's a whole lot easier than cutting through the cap of the skull

Looking at a host when the headcrab detaches from it, you see that were the eyes are suppose to be, are just black and what looks like a bloody stream coming from them. Also the headcrab host's head is looking directly up which also correlates with the theory that the headcrab uses it's mouth to force it's victim’s head upwards to then use the "beaks" to cut through the eyeballs and access the brain.

http://img277.imageshack.us/img277/3975/wallpaper1056te4.jpg

The position of the head and face seem perfect for what my theory is of how the headcrab first controls the human

 

[Darkside55]

It's a good theory, and would explain the missing eyeballs, but the problem is that we know the headcrabs don't do anything to the brain. It's all in the nervous system.

Likelier they're going in through either the base of the neck, at the spinal column where the nervous system is, or in through the mouth.

 

[99.vikram]

Aren't Combine soldier's partially lobotomised?

Maybe the zombine headcrab just removes what it doesn't need.

 

[ríomhaire]

From examining the beaks on a headcrabs and looking at the way it sits on a host it looks like none of the beaks would actually pierce your face. My guess is that the headcrab taps into the the nervous system via the back of the spine.

 

[Darkside55]

Aren't Combine soldier's partially lobotomised?

Hehe, not partially. Whole top of the head = gone. The crab literally shears off everything but the lower jaw, leaving direct access to the base of the skull. Which shows they don't need a brain at all. Blew my mind when I first saw it, 'cause I'd been waiting for EpOne for that exact reason: to see what was under a zombine's headcrab.

From examining the beaks on a headcrabs and looking at the way it sits on a host it looks like none of the beaks would actually pierce your face. My guess is that the headcrab taps into the the nervous system via the back of the spine.

Yarr. Which is why I say they don't even need heads. "Nervous crabs" would be a terrible name for them though.

 

[ríomhaire]

Hehe, not partially. Whole top of the head = gone. The crab literally shears off everything but the lower jaw, leaving direct access to the base of the skull. Which shows they don't need a brain at all. Blew my mind when I first saw it, 'cause I'd been waiting for EpOne for that exact reason: to see what was under a zombine's headcrab.

I think he meant lobotamized prior to headcrabing, which they are.

 

[Jintor]

Hehe, not partially. Whole top of the head = gone. The crab literally shears off everything but the lower jaw, leaving direct access to the base of the skull. Which shows they don't need a brain at all. Blew my mind when I first saw it, 'cause I'd been waiting for EpOne for that exact reason: to see what was under a zombine's headcrab.


Yarr. Which is why I say they don't even need heads. "Nervous crabs" would be a terrible name for them though.

"It's your pet, the freaking Nerve-Necker!"

 

[Mesz]

The vort file on Rapidshare got deleted.....put it on here plz

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Shit. ****ing rapidshare deleted it. Can you put it somewhere else plz!!!!!!

 

[Citadel]

I agree with most of you. I think it does tap into the nervous system. As if you kill a headcrab victim but not the actual headcrab and it jumps of the hosts head. You can clearly see a disfigured neck that is bent into a strange position upwards. Perhaps broken in places even.

 

[Piers89]

couldnt be bothered to read most of this thread, just read the headcrab document (fascinating and cracking stuff btw!)

just wondering if there were any other factfiles about the other aliens knocking about for download??

 

[GreatEmperor]

I believe so. I don't have the game handy to check, unfortunately. Here's hoping Valve will eventually get it out on Steam...didn't they say they were going to?


But they do, in a way. When I started writing this paper it kept striking me how similar we behave. Given what we know about their behavior, sure they would have been a little hostile naturally, that's a given, being placed in an unfamiliar situation with creatures who, up until this point, you've had a handle on. To bring up Riom's "tiger" analogy, in this case it's less like seeing a tiger on TV but rather seeing a tiger up close, in confinement, on your own turf. In Black Mesa, there were a bunch of tigers loose and you were on their terms.

But I think if we would've met under different circumstances, if they didn't have their orders, they wouldn't have immediately started blasting us. Especially unarmed civilians. It's dishonorable. It's a complete "What If" scenario, but I think that if the resonance cascade happened and free vortigaunts came through, we would've hit it off that much sooner. At least, the vortigaunts and the scientists.

There is only the one area where the Vorts dont just attack you as soon as you pop in so I think the only reason they do not is because you are on Xen and they have a job to do. They have Grunts to fight you there and are not really combat units. When they are stranded on Earth they are commanded to fight because that is all there is to do, on Xen they fill their real roles and rely on the Grunts to battle and defend facilities

 

[Narvi]

There is only the one area where the Vorts dont just attack you as soon as you pop in so I think the only reason they do not is because you are on Xen and they have a job to do. They have Grunts to fight you there and are not really combat units. When they are stranded on Earth they are commanded to fight because that is all there is to do, on Xen they fill their real roles and rely on the Grunts to battle and defend facilities

They don't attack until Alien Controllers appear, actually.

 

[Rapstah]

I remember coming to that area, and after the Controllers and Grunts were dead, they just continued working, and look at me a little.

It was cute actually.

 

[GreatEmperor]

They appear after you kill one and they obviously tell the Vorts to stop working and attack you so they do and at the BMRF they have no controllers and do the only thing they are supposed to do in that place and attack, but on Xen there are other things to do

 

[Jintor]

They're shocked, confused, and under the control of a giant floating fetus. Not to mention all the security guards and one scientist are rushing around shooting them, as well. Hive-minded, too, so if one goes down, they all know who did it...

Well, not hive minded, but something to that effect.

 

[GreatEmperor]

then they would have swarmed you on Xen if they really cared but they are not supposed to attack, they are workers and have to be told otherwise or whatever

 

[Jintor]

Lol, true.

 

[Darkside55]

It's deeper than that. At that point, it's not "they're workers so they have to be told to attack," it's "they have to be told to attack TO ATTACK." Let me explain.

At that point in the game, the vortigaunts do nothing because they WANT you to kill the Nihilanth. Originally they were supposed to help you at this point; they were going to rebel and fight the controllers and grunts. This didn't happen, so the most that you get is they let you pass unhindered in the first area.

The controllers actually wanted them to attack. I'm sure the vortigaunts have orders to kill intruders. The reason they didn't is because they wanted to let the Free Man through, to kill the Nihilanth.

 

[ríomhaire]

My interpretations:
At first they attack because they're scared shitless. They're in an alien world and there are utterly terrified. They take up a fight or flight reaction, and when you can shoot lightning out of your hand fight is probably the best damn option. Especially if things like headcrabs are their natural enemy, you most certainly don't want to turn your back on a headcrab.

Later they attack because they've been ordered to. Nihilanth/the controllers want (what is in their view) the aggressors wipped out. Grunts and Vortigaunts are sent in to kill.

As for the factory. That could be multiple things.
A: They don't know who you are and they don't give a shit. They're working, they're in a safe and familiar environment and they don't feel that threatened. On the other hand, they do feel threatened by their masters and don't want to get cought slacking off, or zapping something they weren't supposed to. This, of course relies on the idea that the collars (or perhaps the barrier between the worlds) somehow blocked communication with the Vortessense, otherwise they'd probably recognise the suit.
B: They know who you are and are scared shitless to attack you. They know what you've done and they you could wipe them all out. They ignore you in the hope that you'll do the same.
C: They know who you are and want you to take down their oppressors. They leave you through, hoping that you will take out Nihilanth.

 

[Rapstah]

Good post, Riom.

It also explains why they attacked us in Black Mesa - they're scared. Really scared. If you were teleported into a strange-looking alien environment and were shot at by some humans, while some didn't shoot you, you would still attack the ones that didn't shoot you.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

The first-few-times I played through I just massacered them, until people began to mention their passiveness.

 

[GreatEmperor]

My interpretations:
At first they attack because they're scared shitless. They're in an alien world and there are utterly terrified. They take up a fight or flight reaction, and when you can shoot lightning out of your hand fight is probably the best damn option. Especially if things like headcrabs are their natural enemy, you most certainly don't want to turn your back on a headcrab.

Later they attack because they've been ordered to. Nihilanth/the controllers want (what is in their view) the aggressors wipped out. Grunts and Vortigaunts are sent in to kill.

As for the factory. That could be multiple things.
A: They don't know who you are and they don't give a shit. They're working, they're in a safe and familiar environment and they don't feel that threatened. On the other hand, they do feel threatened by their masters and don't want to get cought slacking off, or zapping something they weren't supposed to. This, of course relies on the idea that the collars (or perhaps the barrier between the worlds) somehow blocked communication with the Vortessense, otherwise they'd probably recognise the suit.
B: They know who you are and are scared shitless to attack you. They know what you've done and they you could wipe them all out. They ignore you in the hope that you'll do the same.
C: They know who you are and want you to take down their oppressors. They leave you through, hoping that you will take out Nihilanth.

A is more likely, they do not break stride to study you but they have seen the hazard suit people around before, it should be common knowledge, they wouldnt recognize it. They were not so scared they couldnt refrain, it must be orders or protocol.

I doubt Nihilanth sent Vorts through after the cascade, Grunts are pretty much all you see come through at the end. The Vorts must be accidental and the Grunts are what is attacking

 

[Darkside55]

Nihilanth sent some vorts through, initially. "Xen Attacks," the Decay bonus mission, shows this. Vortigaunts still come through after the cascade is closed as well, which means the Nihilanth is still sending them in as cannon fodder to back up the sparser, more "valuable" (to the Xenian warmachine) grunts.

 

[GreatEmperor]

Never played it but i read that their mission was to retrieve the crystal not to attack, sounds like labor and maybe he needed time to get the Grunt numbers up

 

[ríomhaire]

Plus there are a few areas of Surface Tension with vorts teleporting in IIRC. Isn't there a scene where you have to hold the line against vorts teleporting in, with a machine gun?

 

[Piers89]

Yes thats right, its after you blow up the osprey at the refuelling pad, and just before you go into the garage/repair bay area.
Also, just before you go into the second garage, with the garg, a load of vorts teleport onto the roofs of the surrounding buildings.

 

[GreatEmperor]

Yes thats right, its after you blow up the osprey at the refuelling pad, and just before you go into the garage/repair bay area.
Also, just before you go into the second garage, with the garg, a load of vorts teleport onto the roofs of the surrounding buildings.

didnt notice that but still you saw the factory they were in full swing but hadnt really filled the place up, their numbers of Grunts had to be replenished and there was no reserves to send at first

 

[UltimaApocalypse]

On the subject of why the Zombine only has a lower jaw left, I think it's a plot hole of sorts. Originally, and I have proof of this, the normal Zombies only had half a jaw when you shot the headcrab off. Valve later added the bloody human head. I beleive the half-jaw is simply a placeholder, something to be added later or they just didn't know what to put there during Episode 1 development.

 

[Asknoone]

It isn't a plothole. The headcrab needs access to the head, yes? Yes. It then proceeds to munch through the helmet to get to the head; taking most of the head with it as it does so. As you can see the headcrab is pretty much resting on the shoulders so Valve obviously know there's no head.