free health care

wqdfq

  • canada

    Votes: 18 58.1%

  • USA

    Votes: 13 41.9%
  • Total voters
    31
E

Eg.

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simple poll related to another thread

Q: if you had just been diagnosed with cancer on Canada, and had two options would you

A: stay in canada and wait 6 months for your next appointment to start treatment(free)

B: go to american and get treated immeadtily?(youd have to pay)
 
this poll is overly simplistic. my choice would be determined by the amount of cash i have.

If I have the money, certainly, i'll go to the US for immediate treatment.

If I don't have enough for that, at least I can still get it in Canada, if I'm willing to wait.
 
Yeah, it does oversimplify the issue.

For example, what if you are poor?
What if the illness isn't very serious, or is very serious?
Would a wait complicate things, or no?
How much would you have to pay?

Since the question does not make any inherent difference apparent between the two cases, beyond price. I choose Canada, because you get the exact same treatment for free.

Also, since the question is clear that the patient in question is canadian, staying would be the best way to reap the benefits of their tax dollars.

Going to the US would throw all that money away. You'd be spending over twice as much for the same care.
 
pay? what are you guys made of money? a semi-private room is $1500 a day not including procedures, surgery, rehab, use of equipment etc

my son was born 3 months premature. His 2 month stay at the hospital would have cost me over $300,000 had I had to pay for it ..how can any family pay that? on top of a mortgage/rent food, clothing etc? I couldnt afford it.
 
Health.........care......? What's this now? Some sort of foreign plot to take over the US I bet....bunch of commi bastards.
 
qckbeam said:
Health.........care......? What's this now? Some sort of foreign plot to take over the US I bet....bunch of commi bastards.
Click to expand...

And it's working too, you're all coming up here to get our commie flu vaccines :E
 
Eg. said:
simple poll related to another thread

Q: if you had just been diagnosed with cancer on Canada, and had two options would you

A: stay in canada and wait 6 months for your next appointment to start treatment(free)

B: go to american and get treated immeadtily?(youd have to pay)
Click to expand...

Inane.

If I'd have the money, I'd go to America, obviously. But why would I have to - I'm fairly sure there are private clinics in Canada.
 
CptStern said:
pay? what are you guys made of money? a semi-private room is $1500 a day not including procedures, surgery, rehab, use of equipment etc

my son was born 3 months premature. His 2 month stay at the hospital would have cost me over $300,000 had I had to pay for it ..how can any family pay that? on top of a mortgage/rent food, clothing etc? I couldnt afford it.
Click to expand...

Jesus. That's expensive.
 
ya I dont know what I would have done if I was in any other country ...if my son was born in iraq or Sudan he probably wouldnt have survived ..at least some north americans have healthcare
 
In America if you have insurance with a decent plan you wouldn't have had to pay that either. And I don't know where you get the figure of $1500 per night, but I know from experience that it's much less than that here.

The truth is that Canada can only afford to have it's luxurious healthcare system because its budget is devoted almost entirely to domestic issues, unlike the United States. You guys barely have an army and a much smaller stake in foreign affairs, therefor a much larger ratio of your budget can be devoted to things like healthcare.

I like Canadians and am a very liberal person. However, when I see some Canadians act like their government is superior because of things like free healthcare and that the American healthcare system is horrible, I find it very ignorant. If America wasn't here to provide defense and whatnot for Canada, your domestic budget would be much smaller and things like free healthcare would be all but done away with.

Note: I'm not saying anyone in this thread is claiming superiority, but I do know quite a few Canadians who have that attitude.
 
I live in Edmonton Alberta and our city is supposed to have one of the best healthcare systems in the world. We can only afford it though because we are rich in natural resources in Alberta. And we are debt free. :D

My grandma gets surgery every couple months and doesnt pay a cent. Except her taxes.
 
stern, what are the taxes like in canada? im just curious, we pay very little taxes per capita, what about you?
 
smwScott said:
In America if you have insurance with a decent plan you wouldn't have had to pay that either. And I don't know where you get the figure of $1500 per night, but I know from experience that it's much less than that here.
Click to expand...

ask the nurse the next time you step into a NICU

smwScott said:
The truth is that Canada can only afford to have it's luxurious healthcare system because its budget is devoted almost entirely to domestic issues, unlike the United States. You guys barely have an army and a much smaller stake in foreign affairs, therefor a much larger ratio of your budget can be devoted to things like healthcare.
Click to expand...

maybe if you stopped sticking your nose in other people's affairs you wouldnt be trillions of dollars in debt. 1/5 th of americans are without healthcare ..over 50 million. hmmm healthcare for all or political intrigue abroad ..I'll take healthcare thank you very much

smwScott said:
I like Canadians and am a very liberal person. However, when I see some Canadians act like their government is superior because of things like free healthcare and that the American healthcare system is horrible, I find it very ignorant.
Click to expand...


you dont know who I am, dont assume that's my motivation ...actually i'm a bigger critic of the US's foreign policy than anything else. Frankly I couldnt care less about your healthcare.

smwScott said:
If America wasn't here to provide defense and whatnot for Canada, your domestic budget would be much smaller and things like free healthcare would be all but done away with.
Click to expand...

defense? defense against who? if anything we are probably more likely to be invaded by americans than anyone else.

smwScott said:
Note: I'm not saying anyone in this thread is claiming superiority, but I do know quite a few Canadians who have that attitude
Click to expand...

well that's not my reasoning so dont just assume ...btw knowing a canadian and knowing a canadian are two completely different things, if you get my drift
 
in what sense? income taxes, property taxes? insurance taxes? provincial? federal? GST? PST?

if you're talking about sales tax then yes it is higher here than in the US ...but then again the majority of canadians dont have bars in front of their windows or 50 million of it's population without healthcare so it's worth the little extra we pay
 
CptStern said:
in what sense? income taxes, property taxes? insurance taxes? provincial? federal? GST? PST?

if you're talking about sales tax then yes it is higher here than in the US ...but then again the majority of canadians dont have bars in front of their windows or 50 million of it's population without healthcare so it's worth the little extra we pay
Click to expand...
im talking about income tax/federal tax.
 
ask the nurse the next time you step into a NICU

Well, ok. I don't have any experience with child care in a hospital so I can't speak there, but when a relative of mine was in the hospital the bill was nowhere near $1500 a day.

maybe if you stopped sticking your nose in other people's affairs you wouldnt be trillions of dollars in debt. 1/5 th of americans are without healthcare ..over 50 million. hmmm healthcare for all or political intrigue abroad ..I'll take healthcare thank you very much

I too disagree with much of our foreign policy, but the fact is that many people - mostly the same people who hate us already, would hate us even more if we mostly withdrew from foreign affairs. There is certainly room for improvement, especially with the way we invaded a soverign nation unprepared to govern it, but it's downright ignorant and stupid to suggest we withdraw most of our interests in foreign affairs.

defense? defense against who? if anything we are probably more likely to be invaded by americans than anyone else.

That's just silly, there is absolutely no chance that America would ever attack you and you know it. Also, if the US didn't provide extra security then Canada would be forced to provide it for itself. How can you even try to argue that a lot of Canadas liberty with their budget comes from economic relief in other areas?

you dont know who I am, dont assume that's my motivation ...actually i'm a bigger critic of the US's foreign policy than anything else. Frankly I couldnt care less about your healthcare.
well that's not my reasoning so dont just assume ...btw knowing a canadian and knowing a canadian are two completely different things, if you get my drift

My best friend is a Chinese Canadian. I also know very well a few other Canadians and we have discussed this issue. They all without exception have the mentality that I described. It's not just them, it is quite clear that it is the attitude of many Canadians. Also, it was never directed towards you, I went out of my way to say that it wasn't, so lighten up.

My point is simply that it is virtually impossible for a country like the United States to afford free health care like Canada can. We simply don't have the same luxury. There's a reason the United States is the most powerful nation in the world, and to be honest it's not worth sacrificing that for certain domestic comforts.
 
smwScott said:
Well, ok. I don't have any experience with child care in a hospital so I can't speak there, but when a relative of mine was in the hospital the bill was nowhere near $1500 a day.
Click to expand...

it varies depending on the treatment but the number is fairly accurate for intensive/critical care. The kind of care that most of us will likely need when we're seniors. Something as routine as a premature birth can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars

smwScott said:
I too disagree with much of our foreign policy, but the fact is that many people - mostly the same people who hate us already, would hate us even more if we mostly withdrew from foreign affairs. There is certainly room for improvement, especially with the way we invaded a soverign nation unprepared to govern it, but it's downright ignorant and stupid to suggest we withdraw most of our interests in foreign affairs.
Click to expand...

if it was humanitarian aid I'd agree with you, but the majority of american interests abroad usually entails military operations that are beneficial to the US in a monetary or political sense, while humanitarian issues are largely ignored. These "political interventions" seem to fuel a growing resentment in the global arena towards US foreign policy. Too many around the globe it is all too apparent that the goals of american foreign policy are altruistic.

smwScott said:
That's just silly, there is absolutely no chance that America would ever attack you and you know it.
Click to expand...

well in my defense I did say it with tongue firmly planted on cheek :E

smwScott said:
Also, if the US didn't provide extra security then Canada would be forced to provide it for itself. How can you even try to argue that a lot of Canadas liberty with their budget comes from economic relief in other areas?
Click to expand...

seriously who would invade canada? it's a huge piece of land with endless kilometers of open border that would be almost impossible to take over ..it just makes no sense that any country would have their eyes on canada


smwScott said:
My best friend is a Chinese Canadian. I also know very well a few other Canadians and we have discussed this issue. They all without exception have the mentality that I described.
Click to expand...


yes but that hardly represents all 28 million of us ...I dont think the majority of canadians feel superior because of healthcare. You have to understand that the US has always been very dismissive of canada. The current administration distanced himself from our last prime minister pretty much from the onset. We were given a raw deal when it came to NAFTA, softwood lumber, cattle etc etc. We were snubbed publically when the US thanked countries for helping them in the aftermath of 9/11 even though canada was more involved than any other country in the clean up. We've recieved the cold shoulder when Jean Cretien decided it wasnt in canada's best interest to join the coalition.

There's not all that much resentment here in canada towards the US we've just decided to distance ourselves a bit because the US has chosen to travel a path down an ambigious road of questionable ethics that is alien to most canadians .


smwScott said:
My point is simply that it is virtually impossible for a country like the United States to afford free health care like Canada can. We simply don't have the same luxury. There's a reason the United States is the most powerful nation in the world, and to be honest it's not worth sacrificing that for certain domestic comforts.
Click to expand...

that's not entirely true. The defense budget alone could pay for it. Any step towards universal healthcare, no matter how small, is a step in the right direction
 
gh0st said:
sure. 10charmonkey :monkee:
Click to expand...

and how am I supposed to quantify that? income tax varies from person to person ...it depends on how much money you make ...that's why it's called "income" tax
 
you are supposed to "quantify" it by telling me if canada pays on average, more income taxes than america. not a difficult question.
 
well I cant quantify it if I dont have anything to compare it to. If you want to know, do the research yourself. I'm not doing your leg work for you
 
my initial reaction would be to stay in canada and get on with my life until my operation came around. if things got worse/my financial situation was such that i should/could get treated immediately, i'd go south of the border.

for me, health is the basest of human rights.
 
Dedalus said:
for me, health is the basest of human rights.
Click to expand...
Here here. It enfuriates me when people deride the NHS in our country. It's not perfect by any means, but it's such a good system and I'm so glad we have it. Of course, if we didn't people would complain heavily about how difficult it is to pay for medical care, whereas now they revel in complaining about taxes without considering for too long exactly where the money goes. Such is life.
I worry that the government is finding it harder and harder to support it - it'll be interesting to see what happens. I doubt it would turn into the American system - doing away with the NHS a-proper would cause too much of an outrage - but there may be some drastic changes in the future. And that makes me a sad panda.
 
In other words Gh0st they pay lots more than we do. Many of the best doctors in the world come to the USA to work. You dont see them flocking to Canada.
 
if you can afford them ....50 million americans no healthcare
 
CptStern said:
if you can afford them ....50 million americans no healthcare
Click to expand...

The same could be said for your taxes. Your country chooses the socialistic approach, while ours accepts the more liberterian (for lack of a better word) approach.
 
seinfeldrules said:
Your country chooses the socialistic approach, while ours accepts the more liberterian (for lack of a better word) approach.
Click to expand...
Woah woah - what you're doing there is going close to implying that a country with similar health-care set up to Canada's is some damn Commie red system where as y'all in the Free World ("accepts...libertarian"? Very connotative language there, comparitively) gets great medical care, even though it might be at the detriment of others. Och well, you can't win them all. Especially if you're poor, eh.
 
seinfeldrules said:
No work = welfare. That is a shame.
Click to expand...

actaully, for the most part in canada, welfare is only given out to those who previously were employed(and after a certain lenght of time it ends) or are phyically unable to work
 
funny thing is, we have emergency rooms, so if shit happens on the fly, u get patched up ex:

when i was 8 my eyebrow spilt deep enough to see the bone, as we were outside my mom didnt hae the cash on had for say a real doctor. so we went to the emergency room, and for free, i got stitched put in, and a damned nice job too
 
Woah woah - what you're doing there is going close to implying that a country with similar health-care set up to Canada's is some damn Commie red system where as y'all in the Free World ("accepts...libertarian"? Very connotative language there, comparitively) gets great medical care, even though it might be at the detriment of others. Och well, you can't win them all. Especially if you're poor, eh.
Click to expand...

How can you argue it? You have the ultimate gov't contol over the health system, while we highly lack it.
 
seinfeldrules said:
How can you argue it? You have the ultimate gov't contol over the health system, while we highly lack it.
Click to expand...

you make it sound sinister. As someone who's witnessed the healthcare system work for my family I can attest that it is a good reliable system that protects everyone equally. And I'm not just talking a trip to the emergency room to stitch up a little "booboo"; major life saving surgery and medical intervention on various members of my family on a regular basis for the last 5 years ..We definately got back all the money we've paid over in the years in taxes.

Sure it has it's faults but it's better than paying for insurance or worse yet, having to forego healthcare because you cant afford it. Why do you think so many americans want a european or canadian style of healthcare ..because it gives you peace of mind ...it's called a social security blanket. When you're old and your health is fading you'll be glad you dont have to worry about whether you'll be able to afford life saving medical intervention
 
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