Half-life2 uses havok2?

[pcxman]

I just want to know if half-life2 uses havok2 physics? i've searched the forum and didn't find info about this

 

[Ames]

Modified Havok 1.

 

[joule]

...yes

 

[pcxman]

thanks 4the info

 

[dream431ca]

I don't think it's a modified version of Havok 1...I think it's Havok 2....but I'm just guessing.

 

[Wsh]

It's Havok 1. Valve have modified it. Afaik confirmed multiple times in the info mail thread, too.

 

[cenmocay]

all false,its not Havok 1 or 2

its Valves own modification

 

[The Dark Elf]

all false,its not Havok 1 or 2

its Valves own modification

It's a heavily modified (so they tell us) version of Havok 1.. So its Havok 1.

 

[Bongfarmer]

I tohught physics were source. Whats havok?

 

[Liam]

I think someone from valve said that they will continue to work on it after release, so it could end up using a either modified havok 2, or havok 1 modified to such an extent that it has most of the havok2 features.

 

[KagePrototype]

I tohught physics were source. Whats havok?

Valve licenced a physics engine called Havok, which they then heavily modified and incorporated into their own in-house created game engine, called Source, which Half-Life 2 was created on top of. Source handles everything in the game, not just the physics.

 

[Hellbound]

Source is the video game engine.

The physics are handled by Havoc, the same that powers Painkiller.
I've read somewhere that Valve worked together with the company that owns Havok on the development of Havok 2... can't remember where... age is getting to me... not mentioning the alchool

 

[BlueIce]

this seems like some HL1 discussions i've seen in the past years:

"HL is Quake 1 Engine i think"
"noooo it's definitly their own engineered one"
"shut up you $&$% it's Q2 engine, eot!"

 

[thefiznut]

Yes, Source uses a heavily modified version of Havok 1. And when they say heavily, they mean heavily. It's complexity is about equal to or maybe even more than Havok 2.

 

[-Yo-]

Yes its havock 1 .... and yes hl1 run under the quake1 engine

 

[RoguePsi]

Yes, Source uses a heavily modified version of Havok 1. And when they say heavily, they mean heavily. It's complexity is about equal to or maybe even more than Havok 2.

That answer is about as spot on as you are gonna get.

Case closed.

 

[Xailia]

Havok 2+

I always heard it as Valve started talking to the people over at Havok, and then started working with them to improve it to make Havok 2. So what Valve has added to Source is basically Havok 2, probably with some of their own customized HL2 specific stuff.

“Havok has been working with Valve for almost three years to deliver breakthrough physical gameplay. Havok 2, launched at GDC 2003 incorporates all that we have learned from working with each other,

Valve Client page on Havok.com

 

[stanr]

It's a heavily modified (so they tell us) version of Havok 1.. So its Havok 1.

Right-o. In fact, from one of the interviews I remember hearing them say that it's so heavily modified, it can compete with Havok 2's feature set, and then some.

Incidentally, I think that may be why Valve did not get into a lot of legal trouble when they got hacked. That, and a possible promise of royalties from the sales of HL2 But nobody really knows the vagaries of what's happened there but the "in" people. I can only speculate...

Stan R.

 

[smwScott]

I'm pretty sure the physics system in Source will be the best on the market. Just look at what they did with the Quake engine, I'm pretty sure they've made just as many changes to Havok. From what we've seen the physics look far more complex than Havoc 2 games like Psi Ops.

 

[Hellbound]

“Havok has been working with Valve for almost three years to deliver breakthrough physical gameplay. Havok 2, launched at GDC 2003 incorporates all that we have learned from working with each other, particularly in the area of character control and ragdolls”, said Dr. Steven Collins CTO, Havok

From Valve's client page at Havok website

Oh... good to see someone remembered for me where that stuff about Havok came from :cheers:

so with this i think HL2 will use something similar to Havok 2 and then some :thumbs:

 

[bgesley426]

The main difference between Havok 1 and Havok 2 is ragdoll/keyframe blending also known as hit animations. HL2 doesn't have this. What game does have it is Max Payne 2. It would've been reaaaaaaaaalllllly good to have Havok 2 integrated into the source. Even tho steam offers a way to update the game and source engine it would have to be a major overhaul due to the heavily customizations.

 

[creationist]

I've noticed in CS:Source that when a nade goes off the body goes up rotating, then stops and comes down like a statue, in one position until it collides with the ground.

In PainKiller, which uses Havok 2 I believe, this is not the case. A body blown sky high will rotate and limbs will flail and it will spin all the way to its ragdollish meet with the ground.

The difference between Havok 1 (modified) and Havok 2 can be seen I guess? It's not really all that important, it's just that the CS:Source ragdolls bother me a lil.

 

[Vegeta897]

Err.. I am almost positive Halflife 2 has keyframe blending. Or "hit animations".

Without it, when you kill a guy, he will ragdoll right there, with no influence from how he was killed. (eg being blown back by a shotgun at close range.)

HL2 does this. Like in the E3 2004 demo, how a combine soldier gets blown away by that rocket launcher.

I may be wrong though...

 

[Brian Damage]

The dude who went to VALVe recently says that enemies do flinch when getting hit, if that's what you're talking about. And I'm pretty sure there's a fairly recent eMail in the Info thread which states that momentum on ragdolling enemies is preserved...

[EDIT]: In fact, if you watch the E3 2004 vid where the player uses the crane, the Combine Soldier that gets shot up on that walkway seems to get knocked backwards off it.

 

[Vegeta897]

The dude who went to VALVe recently says that enemies do flinch when getting hit, if that's what you're talking about. And I'm pretty sure there's a fairly recent eMail in the Info thread which states that momentum on ragdolling enemies is preserved...

Right.

Flinching enemies isn't what we are talking about, that's not even physics.

So it's confirmed. HL2 has keyframe blending.

 

[Brian Damage]

It could be physics, if the animation is deformed and, lets say, "semi-ragdolled" according to the havok physics engine.

 

[Vegeta897]

It could be physics, if the animation is deformed and, lets say, "semi-ragdolled" according to the havok physics engine.

Ah yes, I see. But does HL2 do this? I know it's possible, "You could do it in a mod" Heh.

It would be a nice touch.

 

[Brian Damage]

Far Cry even seemed to have it. I remember switching off the enemy AI, and then standing in front of them and hitting them in the head with stones. Sure as hell didn't look like a canned animation, so I'd say it wouldn't be hard for VALVe to do.

Ask smozy, or whatever he calls himself, if the hit movements looked canned or physics-based.

 

[thefiznut]

Let me clear this up, HL2 does have keyframe blending. CS:S does not implement this because it's an online game. This is why when you nade someone and they fly into the air, they don't go ragdoll until they actually die. Source's physics engine has everything that Havok 2 has to offer.

 

[stanr]

The main difference between Havok 1 and Havok 2 is ragdoll/keyframe blending also known as hit animations. HL2 doesn't have this.

HL2 does have powerful keyframe blending and the engine had it ever since Ken Birdwell (?) coded it for the first version of TF2. If you remember old TF2 movies, you know what I am talking about. The whole facial animator is also about keyframe blending, where different "muscles" of the face are animated separately, but combine to produce an expression.

Now, as you note, doing complex physics interactions with keyframe blending is difficult, and perhaps that's what Havok 2 achieves. An example would be something like having mostly only the arm jerk (but not the torso) when a person is shot in the hand, because of elbow and shoulder constraints "absorbing" most of the energy. Then, if the character being shot is running at the time, physics should find a way to affect the swing of his arm accordingly. But in the process, translating the vector of the incoming projectile into the local coordinates of the affected body part given its current animation is pretty CPU costly too, especially per-bullet.

I guess a simpler method like calculating the momentum of the projectile relative to the center of gravity of the whole character and having the whole body react, is what I suspect HL2 will do. So flinching is believable, but not 100% accurate.

Not that anyone would really care for the difference or be able to spot it in the middle of a firefight.

Stan R.