Here's wishing there weren't Episodes

If you read my post I said All the episodes combined, will equal what BFV was to BF1942, what Quake 4 was to Doom 3, & what BF-2142 was to BF-2. nothing short of a modification with Hi-res skins & textures & some game play fixes & tweaks, like Fakefactory, BM:S, Forgotten Hope-2
 
No. All the episodes combined will feature a changelog of how far the source engine has come, and will go.
 
When its all said & done its still a mod. A mod a can do the exact same thing. Its still a Battlefield Vietnam or a Quake 4.
 
Wally_Breen said:
When its all said & done its still a mod. A mod a can do the exact same thing. Its still a Battlefield Vietnam or a Quake 4.
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you can say mod, episode, or expansion, who cares what u call it, the name means nothing, its about gameplay and story, and it had it all, and expect more. No low budget MOD team could pull something like EP1 off, its not possible. u need the skilled programmers at valve, and gabes check book to impliment new tech into an already awesome engine, nt though.
 
When its all said & done its still a mod. A mod a can do the exact same thing. Its still a Battlefield Vietnam or a Quake 4.
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*Looks at TF2* Yeah..except Self Shadows and multiple shadows...ya know.. Mods can't really just add that in..

A mod can't do the same things. There are major changes to the engine itself. Plus who cares what changes are made to the engine anyway? I mean a game is about gameplay. Even if all the episodes were mods...who cares? They push forward and expand the story and the gameplay.
 
WTFLOL , a mod?

Ep1 has an allie npc AI who doesn't make you bang your head at the screen , on the contrary, could you name me other games that can claim that?
 
Wally_Breen said:
*snip* What HL1 is to Quake 1. *snip* Just minor adjustments to the engine to keep it up to par. So its basically it does what a mod does.
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Please go back and play those two games again and say that again. Alternatively, get a clue.
 
Quake 4 wasn't a mod either. It was a standalone game, fourth in the Quake series.

I'll give you BFV, because it is an expansion pack. Still, it isn't a mod.

Get your games in line before you call a video game a mod.

pfft..lol..quake 1 = half life...:LOL:
 
ok, A mod can also bring a game's engine to its limits. Lets say Forgotten Hope-42 & Forgoten Hope-2. which strives on quality. lets say a Game does'nt have Co-op nor Capture the Flag a MOD can do that. I've seen it done before.


Since Im a loyal BF1942 fan I will say this......If you gave a choice of either: A) A remake of BF1942 using BF2 graphic's engine. B) A WW2 modification to Battlefield-2, like Forgotten Hope-2. Which do you think I would choose. A modification that strives on Quality & Historical Accuracy, or A full game using the same engine but with tweaks, graphical & physic's changes.


Also I know alot of people who would agree with me & would stongly disagree with you.


Its as simple as that.
 
read through em, people dont seem to excited...so whats ur point here lol, are u trying to show us proof that valve made a great game compared to what DICE are doing with BF? mission accomplished
 
Dario D. said:
Why does everyone think it would take another 12 years to complete a full-length Half-Life game?

Episode 2 is already almost DONE (Gamespy: TBA 2006). There are only four months left in 2006.

Half-Life 2 came out in November 2004, so that means that it took exactly 2 years to make another 12 hours of gameplay... not 12 years.

So, if every 2 years they can crank out 12 hours of gameplay, that's a whole new game every two years - standard developement cycle, just like every other game. What we're getting instead - at least the way I see it - is bunch of tiny games with bad endings. Imagine if every game were made like this; released in episodes.
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it would suk...and imp episodic contents fine as long as its not overpriced..

ahhh i see it now i know why everyone likes episodic better.................pirate*
 
If you are so bothered with it just play the 3 eps together when all of them are out.
 
XIII said:
it would suk...and imp episodic contents fine as long as its not overpriced..

ahhh i see it now i know why everyone likes episodic better.................pirate*
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Please decode this crazy moon language.
 
I felt ep1 was rather short, but that was to be expected as it is an episode after all. I'd enjoy a longer game, but I'd rather have the episodes than wait years for the next one. And when we have all 3 you can probably play them through in sequence without getting too much of that episodic feel... Even though ep1 is standalone, the story continues directly from where it was in hl2. So I think it'll be better when we have more episodes.

And if they really try to change and improve their game according to feedback, I think that's great.
 
I'd rather have a full Half-Life 3. Sure, in the end, combining Episodes 1-3 (or 4 or whatever) will probably equal a Half-Life 3...but I'd just rather have it all at once :p.
 
Episodic works for me. When you're done, go play something else, then next thing you know, Episode 2's ready. And you're not 6 years older.

btw, what was so bad about Episode 1's ending? I think it was supposed to be more like a soap opera cliffhanger, given the 'episodic' nature of the whole thing. ;)
 
Half-Life 3 should feel like Half-Life 3. It should feel like a new game. Episode one didn't feel like either of those. It was great, but it just felt like the continuation of HL2.

Half-Life deserves one final climatic and epic game.

I'm sure Valve will do it too, at some point. They'd be crazy not too.

They don't have any reason to rush to get started on it right now though.

With the way Valve has set up Steam and their traditional support of the mod community they pretty much asure that people will keep playing their games for a long time to come.
 
I apologize, as I'm a newbie and perhaps this is common knowledge, but do these Episodes mean that work has not yet started on HL3? In that case, I'd agree that the episode idea should be scratched even if HL3 is many years away--no reason to delay it even another year. On the other hand, these episodes are a good use of the Steam store.
 
Episode 1 just felt like a expansion pack of how incredibly short it was...

but the HDR(bulls**t marketing) & the A.I was decent.
 
I finished Prey in the same time I finished Episode 1, as well as other main titles such as Black and Condemned. All very short games, and whats more, none are up to the quality of Episode 1. I don't think length has anything to do with whether or not you can class it as an expansion pack, because judging by the quality, it quite clearly isn't.
 
It just does'nt feel like a new Hl, a new HL would have different type of feel. A whole new meaning, A game that would pull out all the stops when it come's to "the experience" like no FPS out there.


a full HL would have different weapons, new enemys to face. new allies to fight along sidel (like new characters) new & different environments.

But if VAlve would do things on time like start development in the summer of 06 & finish in the spring-early summer of 07 that would be nice for a full game :).


I don't know, playing 5 chapters is like a tease to me.
 
Did you miss the HALF-LIFE 2 in the title? It isn't a new Half-life. It is a continuation of HL2, set directly after, I might add. This the whole point behind the episodes. HL2 content.
 
I liked Ep1, even though it was short, but the aditions were nice becides along with alyx by my side.
 
I just don't see the benefits of episodic gaming. People seem to be raving about how much higher quality Episode 1 is than the other two games in the series, but I don't think that's true. Whenever I think of Half-Life I'm reminded mostly of moments from HL2 and some from HL1. Ep1 had it's memorable moments as well ... but they weren't better. It's just a shorter game with no substantial story development and it certainly can't stand on it's own ... seeing as it barely has a beginning (borrowed mostly from HL2) and no ending. Then there's the cost factor, $20 for a 4 hour game is more than we're used to playing. This cost/game ratio would have full games ($50) lasting about 10 hours, which is significantly shorter than the other two HL games (probably about as long as Opposing Force).

I understand this model is much more profitable for Valve ... but the end result is far inferior. Also, it encourages Valve to string out the plotline forever, making it feel like some shitty television show where they keep making up reasons to keep you tuned in. I would much prefer separate, self-contained, full length sequels. Maybe some expansion packs for each one.

Oh yeah, I'm also kinda pissed because Ep1 threw the promising cliffhanger of HL2 out the window (suggesting the next game would have you destroy the Combine, probably on their homeworld) and replaced it with something feeling very tacked on (getting put into stasis ... then popped back out of stasis within an hour and less than a mile from where you were plucked from, with no real goal other than "run away"). The whole thing had a "Oh shit .... nevermind" kind of feel to it.
 
Samon said:
Did you miss the HALF-LIFE 2 in the title? It isn't a new Half-life. It is a continuation of HL2, set directly after, I might add. This the whole point behind the episodes. HL2 content.
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Yes I know, but Gabe said that Episode's 1-3 is HL3, he also said that he regrets not calling it Half-Life 3: Episode One.


but becides this Fact their shall be another HL game "Non-Episodic". Episode 3 shall not be ending to the Entire Half-Life Universe, we will have another HL ;).
 
They'll also go back and do third-person views..

Blue Shift 2 anyone?
 
smwScott said:
Then there's the cost factor, $20 for a 4 hour game is more than we're used to playing. This cost/game ratio would have full games ($50) lasting about 10 hours, which is significantly shorter than the other two HL games (probably about as long as Opposing Force).
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Black and Condemned and short games and are sold for higher 19.99.
 
Yeah, and they're an even worse value than these episodes (I don't know about Condemned, but BLACK is unbelievably short). Even still, both of those games are self-contained and don't rely heavily on re-used art assets or a previously established base, they were built from the ground up.

Still, we're talking about HL here, which generally last between 15-20 hours (it seemed like HL1 took me forever the first time through, but it was one of the first PC games I played). The price/length ratio is worse not only for the main games, but even a downgrade from the expansion packs (at least Opposing Force).

What bugs me the most though is the impact it has on the gameplay and flow of the storyline. You simply can't create as good of an experience with tiny little 4 hour bites as you can with a full sized game. At least, not with Half-Life, it might work with a series designed from the ground up with this format in mind.
 
They've gone episodic, and there's nothing...nothing you can do about it *mental laugh*.
 
The cost model is actually what you're used to paying, you're just not aware of it. Consider this: $20 per episode, three episodes that tie up this arc. At 5 hours per episode, you have a total of 15 hours for $60. Most games retail for that price, sometimes more sometimes less.

As for time factor and the grandeur of it all, I can easily offer a solution to you people who would rather wait a long time and play a long game versus waiting a short time and play a short game: simply wait until episode 3 is released, then buy all three episodes at once, and play them one after the other. That way you get your total fifteen hours and have the entire story arc to be played in one sitting, if you so choose. Problem solved. :)

Now for the rest of us, there are some of us who would rather play now than wait later. Certainly we all could wait, if we had to, but we have no problem playing a little now and being teased with a cliffhanger ending to be resolved in six months. Anti-episodic people say they see no benefit, and yet the benefit is getting a game every few months rather than every couple of years. Small games, yes, but games nonetheless, and I'd rather have consistently produced episodes rather than wondering when the next Half-Life is going to come out. Five years waiting for a game doesn't appeal to me (and this coming from a person who patiently endured waiting eight years for TF2).

Also as mentioned Valve is able to cram a lot more into the episodes rather than dividing their attention across a whole game. They can concentrate on one aspect and make it the best they possibly can, centering JUST on that particular theme of the game. Episode one is cohesive and brilliant throughout the whole thing, and I find there's no part lacking or wanting for more, not in gameplay nor exposition.

Another benefit is that Valve can test things out quicker and get feedback faster than with a yearly development cycle. They can introduce new technologies now rather than later, and by constantly monitoring peoples' opinions of the game they can fine-tune future episodes to have more of this or less of that. After all, I'm sure Valve doesn't like hearing what people don't like after developing a game for five years any more than you like playing through those parts. This is a much better model of getting things out and getting reponses.

But the option's open to play them all at once like I suggested, if you really don't mind the wait. I honestly doubt any of you will take that route though...because as much as you don't like episodic content, you're still itching to get your hands on the next piece of the story.
 
In regards to the price/length ratio argument you made, I have to disagree. First of all Ep1 only took me 4 hours, if that. Assuming that the rest of the episodes will run a similar length and still cost $20 ... then $50 would equate to about 10 hours. Both HL1 and HL2 were longer than that, and Opposing Force was about that long and only cost $30. I have never seen a PC game cost more than $50, ever (barring some stupid collectors edition). So even $60 for 15 hours, which is being a bit liberal, is more than we're used to paying - especially for Half-Life games which have always cost $50.

As far as the merits of episodic gaming go, I'm well aware of the advantages. However, it all comes down to personal preference. I'm not a big fan of the quick fix formula and prefer longer, stand-alone stories told with a clear arc that can stand entirely on their own. I also don't like how adopting an episodic format forces the designer to drag out the story through a series of increasingly predictable cliffhangers ... almost like a second rate television show. You could just wait for them to all pile up and play them at once but the story structure will retain the same flaws.

But yes, it saves the developer an absolute TON of money and allows them a much quicker turn around rate. In addition it benefits the consumer by giving them a steady flow of content. That's all well and good, but in my opinion the end result with episodic content is inferior to that of full games.
 
smwScott said:
then $50 would equate to about 10 hours. Both HL1 and HL2 were longer than that, and Opposing Force was about that long and only cost $30.
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In the absence of actually having timed your play throughs of these games, this arguement will be cyclical and pointless, but just as no good player took 5 hours with Episode One, no good player ever took longer than 10 hours with Half-Life 1 and certainly not Half-Life 2. As for taking 10 hours with Opposing Force, I can only laugh loudly and ask what time compression device you were smoking when you played it, or what rosy tinted spectacles you wear when remembering it.

My advice is to largely reserve judgement until Half-Life 2 Episode 2 comes out. The setting and scenario of Episode 1 were a limiting factor in how the game could truely be pushed forward. Story was minimal because having the player stand around for an age would have killed the atmosphere. New Weapons and Enemies would have been non-sensical in a locale that the player had already extensively witnessed. New technology wasn't going to make too much of a splash either. Episode 2 looks like it will contain some of all of that stuff, but whether it is ENOUGH remains to be seen. Also of note, Ep 2 may well simply allow you to take more time than the other episodes, because of its setting. It's rather useless us all comparing the time it takes to complete with retails games when we've only played the first third or so.
 
I finished Opposing force in the same timeframe I finished Episode 1.
 
I stated five hours because it was the time quoted by Valve, and would be the average playthrough time. This is not counting skill levels, playstyles, how often a person stopped or if someone simply blazed through the came, etc. Definately not counting the replay value, of which I found there was a lot to be had in Episode One. But I should point out that any of the Half-Life games can be completed in a ridiculously short amount of time...Half-Life has been done in 40 minutes, for example.

It all largely comes down to personal opinion, which people have stated a few times over in this thread. Ultimately episodic is good for developers, and it's also good for gamers, but whether all gamers LIKE the episodic model is a very different thing indeed.
 
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