Is Music Really getting worse? discuss..

StardogChampion said:
Not true. Classics are landmark songs. It doesn't matter if you like them or not. Smells Like Teen Spirit is a landmark song even though I don't care for it.

By your reckoning I could say Off He Goes by Pearl Jam is a classic, but it's not.
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Plug in Baby by Muse can be considered a classic. Right now as I speak thousands of guitarists are playing this song over and over and over again.

Refused's "The Shape of Punk To Come" album influenced a lot of hardcore bands out there. It made a huge dent in the hardcore scene and changed a lot of the bands style. Many consider this album to be a classic album.
 
PvtRyan said:
Who cares how complex a song is? Honestly. Something isn't better by definition just because it's harder to play. It's probably just as hard to find a simple tune that just grabs your audience, or to evoke certain emotions at will from your audience through a good build-up. Taking a dump into a bucket from 10km in the sky while flying at 400 km/h is very hard, but that doesn't make it good amusement though. Forced complexity is very tiresome.
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I was just pointing out that saying nine inch ****ing nails is as or more complex than Beethoven is pure lunacy. Beethoven was a musical genius who spent years composing and perfecting single pieces, writing for scores of instruments rather than just 3 or 4, tailoring every melody, every nuance, every crescendo, every attenuation, entirely. in. his. head.He didn't write to please people, he wrote like a mathematician looking for the perfect theorem, or like a scientist seeking the solution to a complex problem.

If you're going to compare Beethoven to someone, compare him to a modern classical composer, not a pop star. That's like comparing a hand-made Ferrari to a tricycle.

Can you like one more than the other? Of course. It's all up to taste. Just as someone can like a painting of a black circle on a white background better than they like the Sistine chapel. The Sistine chapel took more time to paint, and much more talent and genius, but the black circle can make just as much money.

Fliko said:
Trent Reznor writes music classically I believe. I also come to believe he was influenced by classical music a fair bit in the way he writes his music.

Classical Music is extremely complex, repition can be complex (Where do you put it, how long does it last, who plays in this repetition.)
Modern bands don't have to deal with say, 50 different instruments. They just simply don't have to decide who plays what (Though it is largely simplified by having the different 'sections', it's still largely more complex.).


Classical musicians know quite a lot of theory, but a lot of modern musicians don't know that much. Theory is the musical template on which one can create songs, instead of just trying to guess a whole bunch of notes or going by ear (All methods just as effective, theory is just much more effecient.)
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Agreed on all points except Renzor writing music "classically". That's bullshit. Renzor writes music like I write music: he sits down at a DAW, experiments with noises until he finds a sound that sounds interesting, writes a chord structure/vamp by experimenting on a keyboard, plugs it into a midi device, repeats it over and over. Then he makes three or four patterns and layers them over each other to make a song. That's it. It would take someone maybe an hour to write a decent NIN ripoff, and it probably takes Renzor less than a couple of days to make a basic mix. Then he does mastering, adds the weird beat-sliced stuff, effects, then he's done. Then he makes millions of dollars.
 
I don't take much notice to "classical training". Dream Theater is a classically trained band, but I find all their songs the same. Where did their classical training get them?

StardogChampion said:
Not true. Classics are landmark songs. It doesn't matter if you like them or not. Smells Like Teen Spirit is a landmark song even though I don't care for it.

By your reckoning I could say Off He Goes by Pearl Jam is a classic, but it's not.
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So if a classic isn't necessarily a song that you like, then why would you give a fuck whether or not any "classics" have been made the last 15 years? I have shitloads of personal classics and most of those are from the last 10 years.
 
People who base their musical tastes on how complex it is are often the ones who listen to Dragonforce.
 
Complexity is never a reason to claim some song or band is better than another.
 
Indeed.

On another note, as the Youtube comments also state, the guitars in that NIN track are so ****ing good.
 
I've never liked rap, but from what I've heard 99 percent of rap nowadays is about sex, drugs, guns, and cars. I'd much rather listen to Stairway To Heaven or Lux Aeterna.
 
Explore for yourself Kashmir. Theres a lot out there.
 
There is good rap if you look hard enough. But I do agree, 99% of what is played on the radio and what is subsequently "popular" suck huge cocks.
 
As long as you can also appreciate music for just making your brain think ''yes, this is good'' then yeah, delve deeper and analyze away, I say. But I've come across a few people now who like certain areas of music because of how technical it is, and in the same vein have also said they disliked other bands because the instrumentation is far too simple. I can't stand that.
 
I think this topic has discovered it's answer. yes, music is getting less interesting. Why do i think that is? Nobody ever sings from the heart anymore. At least, not in the way they used to. Nobody seems like that person that is sitting across from you on the bus, tuning his guitar, more like that popular kid that you hate but everyone else seems to love, accept for you and your buddies. Sure, people will pour their heart out into a lyric, but then the producer sees it and says: "Hmm... The war is getting stale... good... Peace is unassured... Great... Now let's change it around... Here." And now it reads "Back dat ass up! Back dat ass up! Shake dat thang up! Shake dat ass up!"

And there is my point. But rather than linger on this fact, why don't we all band together and find a way to overcome this stupidity? If we all agree, and there's obviously a great deal who think that music is getting stupider, we should fix this. If you still love AC/DC then you agree, Rock & roll will never die, and in my opinion, Rock & roll will save music (again) and we will live in peace for a few decades, then some punk band will show their spiky retarded heads, and then everyone will hate it but want to be different and follow them around like they're great. It's just a cycle, so let's start it over, shall we? :D

Ohh, and New van Halen doesn't count. They were only good on the first 2 albums, and with hagar, but those times make them my favorite band by far. Though, Van halen saved rock once, I'm sure that some day Wolfie might do it again for Ol' Eddie. :p
 
I'm listening to Built to Spill right now. If this ain't from the heart then I don't know what is.
 
Sulkdodds said:
Riiiiiight.
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Yes, I am... Give me one new wave band that does it. One.

I guess I misstated what I meant though... I haven't HEARD anybody sing from the heart LATELY. There, now that I completely change the meaning so that I don't get my ass nagged off, you see what I was trying to say? *weak smile*

I'm poking fun at myself, if you didn't notice. But i really haven't heard anybody from this new generation sing from the heart.
 
Then you haven't looked enough. May I suggest Modest Mouse's ''Lonesome Crowded West'' album and ''Keep It Like A Secret'' by Built to Spill. Both are stunning for their writing, if you ask me. Real emotional, human stuff.
 
What's New Wave supposed to mean? I thought that was in the 80s.

You haven't heard anyone this generation? Have you been listening?
Modest Mouse is a good bet. Try also the Arcade Fire, Silver Mt Zion, PJ Harvey, Asobi Seksu, Sigur Ros, Mum, Radiohead even - there's a voice.
 
Van_Halen said:
Yes, I am... Give me one new wave band that does it. One.
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New Wave died with Grunge.

And explain what you mean from "Sings from the heart"? Lots of bands now a day do that. I'm guessing you mean more of a 50's style singing?
 
this thread is filled to the brim with pretentiousness and sweeping generalizations, im afraid if people don't start falling off their high horses then the whole thing might just jump the edge of the glass and we might have quite the mess on our hands.

just because you haven't heard anything that is highly technical, emotional, ground breaking or "from the heart" doesn't mean its not out there. you clearly aren't looking hard enough, or looking in the right place.

it could be that a lot of people are just stuck in a rut with "their music" and can't move on with the music industry. we don't evolve with pop culture. we can't. pop culture would not exist if the previous generation could appreciate it.
 
Those great songs teeter on the edge of 15 years actually.

Most of you are addressing pretty good points here. But the fact is, mainstream music is dead. The whole "rock" feel is dead, due to too many genre's and different popular bands. There was a time when everyone would listen to the same stuff, be it the Rolling Stones, or Bob Dylan, or the U2, even the Beatles and all agree that they were great music, buying their albums, going to their concerts. Nowadays, with the birth of too many genre's, we have lost, and mainstream music doesn't use electric guitar solo's anymore. It's pretty horrible.

Also, I notice that mainstream rock of today is split into 3 types. Pop Rock, Post Grunge and Emo/Modern Punk. Once in a blue moon, a great band or different band like (imo) Foo Fighters or Incubus, or your NIN and Radiohead pop into MTV. But most of the time, it's just the same stuff. And looking at the pattern, Mainstream Music genre's generally last 5-10 years before switching. So I'll be waiting and seeing what would be popularized in the future.

Oh and this post here is fantastic. It could all go into an awesome article of how music has evolved or into some book of sorts.

theotherguy said:
(Click link to view)
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-Kashmir- said:
I've never liked rap, but from what I've heard 99 percent of rap nowadays is about sex, drugs, guns, and cars. I'd much rather listen to Stairway To Heaven or Lux Aeterna.
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Quite a few old songs about sex and drugs too.
 
soulslicer said:
But the fact is, mainstream music is dead.
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What are you talking about?

The whole "rock" feel is dead, due to too many genre's and different popular bands.
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What are you talking about?

There was a time when everyone would listen to the same stuff, be it the Rolling Stones, or Bob Dylan, or the U2, even the Beatles and all agree that they were great music, buying their albums, going to their concerts.
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Come on!

Nowadays, with the birth of too many genre's, we have lost, and mainstream music doesn't use electric guitar solo's anymore.
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lol wut?

ABSURD. This thread is filled with vapid platitudes. Any proposition that starts with the word "once" and probresses to "nowadays" is rendered instantly ridiculous.
 
Sulkdodds said:
What's New Wave supposed to mean? I thought that was in the 80s.

You haven't heard anyone this generation? Have you been listening?
Modest Mouse is a good bet. Try also the Arcade Fire, Silver Mt Zion, PJ Harvey, Asobi Seksu, Sigur Ros, Mum, Radiohead even - there's a voice.
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New wave was the only phrase i could think of for all the shit pumping out of the radios anymore. if there really is a good band floating around somewhere, which I hope to god there is, that's why I'm looking up Modest mouse right now. Sorry for such an ignorant post, sometimes I forget that I don't know everything. :/
 
Soulslicer, just... no. You need to a little more open minded to music in the future, stop hiding behind the term ''mainstream'' and actually look AWAY from what's on MTV or what everyone is buying. All that stuff doesn't even make up 1% of what music has to offer.

EDIT: Van Halen - track one of Lonesome Crowded West, by Modest Mouse, around 3:50 onwards... good lord it's breathtaking how from the heart is is, but check out the entire album, too. The guys a genius.
 
Damn I love it when someone comes out with the "music sucks now because noone does guitar solos anymore" argument. And actually, they're coming back in, atleast for some more mainstream metal bands. Just look at Slipknot and Disturbed's latest, two bands that were quite firmly on the no solos bandwagon are now shredding. And does it sound any better? Well... depends if you like solos. It doesn't enhance or take anything away from the music except that they now have solos in them... whoopee.
 
undertone said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hole_Sun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californication_(album)
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I was including Soundgarden in the 15 years thing since they were together in the 80's, but I'll give you Black Hole Sun. I won't give you Calfiornication though. Even so, 9 years is still a long time since Californication.

Bad^Hat said:
Damn I love it when someone comes out with the "music sucks now because noone does guitar solos anymore" argument. And actually, they're coming back in, atleast for some more mainstream metal bands. Just look at Slipknot and Disturbed's latest, two bands that were quite firmly on the no solos bandwagon are now shredding. And does it sound any better? Well... depends if you like solos. It doesn't enhance or take anything away from the music except that they now have solos in them... whoopee.
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I think you have to look at non-shit bands to find good solos.
 
Well, that too I guess, but my point was solos don't necessarily add anything to the music. A good band is a good band regardless (and a shit band is still a shit band). It's certainly not an indicator that things are getting worse just because some bands chose not to include them so much anymore.
 
Not having a solo doesn't make it a bad song, but something like Comfortably Numb wouldn't be as good without one at the end.
 
No, but there are also plenty of Pink Floyd songs that are fine without solos - or are even ruined by boring solos, I've found, so it works both ways. But then it depends, do you find Comfortably Numb the true Pink Floyd song? I know a lot, if not most, of the world seems to think so put personally I'll take Sheep over that anyday.
 
Solos were kind of killed a long time ago with punk bands coming out like The Ramones. (Part of the reason they got so much attention was that it was a group of guys who could barely play their instruments.) (Not to say they were totally killed or anything; there just became a lot less of them)
 
Nah, I dont think music is getting worse. I hate it when people say they like bands that were around before they were born just because media and other people hype it up so much.

Personally, I listen to older music and find some of it uninteresting (though some of it is good, depends on your taste I guess). I would rather listen to modern music most of the time, so I guess that sums it up.
 
TheAntipop said:
Soulslicer, just... no. You need to a little more open minded to music in the future, stop hiding behind the term ''mainstream'' and actually look AWAY from what's on MTV or what everyone is buying. All that stuff doesn't even make up 1% of what music has to offer.

EDIT: Van Halen - track one of Lonesome Crowded West, by Modest Mouse, around 3:50 onwards... good lord it's breathtaking how from the heart is is, but check out the entire album, too. The guys a genius.
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I do listen to a wide range of music. I'm just stating my views on the most influential type of music, mainstream music. Yes, I say it is influential because it has the largest audience of listeners.

And yes, I know I've said a lot of "crap" in this thread, as sulk pointed out. Maybe it's because I live in Singapore, and what I see as mainstream music would be those belted out from America. I hardly see anything from the European Countries at all, at least no newer stuff from what I hear around. So do forgive my lacking knowledge..
 
On the subject of solos, they are good when they add to the emotion or feel of the song. Otherwise, a lot of the time they can be just a band member jerking themselves off at how good they can play the guitar.
 
Zephos said:
On the subject of solos, they are good when they add to the emotion or feel of the song. Otherwise, a lot of the time they can be just a band member jerking themselves off at how good they can play the guitar.
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well said.

Yeah, more often than not, a guitar solo is exactly as you say, but luckily, I've never liked any of those songs in the first place, so I can't say that the stupid solo changed my opinion. To be more clear, I've never heard a good song that I like that had a bad solo.


There is this one song - it may be called, "Blue on Black" it says something about tears on a river, a dead man's kiss, whisper on a scream, match on a fire... That song has a killer guitar solo in it. Anyone know who does this song? Pretty sure it's an American band.
 
PvtRyan said:
I don't take much notice to "classical training". Dream Theater is a classically trained band, but I find all their songs the same. Where did their classical training get them?
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Sorry, this is an old post, but where did you get this idea from? I thought they had a larger range of diversity than most bands.
 
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