Kicking for high ping?

[Bedwetting Type]

You know what I HATE? Servers that automatically kick you if your ping is above a certain level. Now before all the geniuses start telling me to get a better connection, let me get this out of the way: I have 768k DSL. There are quite a few servers that I ping ~60 to. But I also share this connection with three other machines in my house. At any moment they could start downloading files or playing online games themselves, and then my ping shoots up towards the moon.

And then there's the issue of fps. There are certain custom maps that have huge wide-open areas which slow my framerate down. If it gets low enough, my ping even starts to go up. Way up.

Nothing pisses me off more than spending 15 minutes racking up the frags, and then I start lagging for whatever reason. It doesn't matter how long you've been there--you're history. It pisses me off sooooo bad.

Why do server operators do this?? I just don't get it. I asked one of these admins about it today, and they said when someone enters with a bad ping, everyone else starts lagging -- not only that, it happens on "every server." Whatever, man. I've seen entire servers get lagged before, but that was because they had more players than the server could handle. What he was describing should only happen on a peer-to-peer connection, not a client-to-server connection like Half-Life 2. Unless this is some weird issue unique to HL2DM...

Discuss.

 

[DiSTuRbEd]

Why do server operators do this?? I just don't get it.

Why server operators kick for high ping? So everyone else doesn't start lagging, and because they can, since they pay the bills.

 

[Pincus]

Why server operators kick for high ping? So everyone else doesn't start lagging, and because they can, since they pay the bills.

Exactly. Just join a server which doesn't have such "rules". Join an Australian server; no servers down here have any of that stuff... But needs to
- Gordon

 

[joule]

I've never joined a server that kicks for high ping. Hmmm... maybe that's because I never have high ping!

 

[Bedwetting Type]

Why server operators kick for high ping? So everyone else doesn't start lagging...

I'd like to see some concrete proof that high-pingers cause other players to lag. And hopefully a technical explanation of why it would happen, because I sure as hell can't think of one.

...and because they can, since they pay the bills.

I'm not here to dispute that.

Exactly. Just join a server which doesn't have such "rules".

I avoid them whenever possible, but alot of servers make no mention of this rule until you are booted out. I'm worried that this is a trend that is going to spread, so if it turns out server admins are doing this purely out of ignorance, then I'd like to see this get sorted out.

 

[Cyn]

I think it's good that people get kicked. I hate it when I'm playing on a server where everyone has 60 ping except one guy with 200. laggers do the jerky movement/disappear reappear thing which is really annoying. imho, if you have a ping higher than 150 you should find a different server.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I'd like to see some concrete proof that high-pingers cause other players to lag. And hopefully a technical explanation of why it would happen, because I sure as hell can't think of one.

That's because there isn't any proof, or an explanation. Mainly because it doesn't actually happen. What people don't like is that someone lagging might jerk back and forth a lot, making them hard to hit (never mind that someone lagging that badly couldn't hit the side of a barn).

So I, too, await an explanation. I've been waiting for about 5 years now.

 

[15357]

I think it's good that people get kicked. I hate it when I'm playing on a server where everyone has 60 ping except one guy with 200. laggers do the jerky movement/disappear reappear thing which is really annoying. imho, if you have a ping higher than 150 you should find a different server.

now, i had about 270 ping in a server and it played fine. ping is not associated with lag, just with the distance of the connection. or so my friend says.

 

[Kyorisu]

(never mind that someone lagging that badly couldn't hit the side of a barn).

Wanna bet? I get a solid 150 to most of the servers in Adelaide and can beat people with 90 and below. I also don't jerk around very much I'm told. I'd go with the distance to connection.

ie Capped 64K cable gives a very low latency. Whilst 256K ADSL may be slower do to the distance travelled via telephone wiring.

 

[Edcrab]

150 ping? That's brilliant- wouldn't refer to that as bad lag. I usually have to deal with upwards of 200, which is still a marked improvement over the 350s I used to get on my old machine.

Quite bluntly I think anything under 300 is more than reasonable, so seeing all these 200+ autokicks irritates the hell out of me. Of course I'm now in a broadband viable area, but I won't be able to do anything on that front until I get back from Spain in a couple of weeks.

Bleh.

 

[Insidious]

150 ping isnt that bad, but it isnt that good eighter

Lets just say seeing a crossbow bold wiz past you then after 1 sec getting killed really sucks

I play on servers close to me and usualy get 50-100 ping in DM and 20-60 in CSS

While it seems unfair I agree with server admins kicking 200+ pingers, I mean it really sucks trying to kill them with them teleporting everywhere

Bedwetting, I suggest you try setting your rate to 12000 and activate net_graph 3 to see if theres any loss, BTW what specs do you have ?

 

[Naudian]

I think 250+ autokick would be reasonable, but only if the ping is constantly over that level. If it just jumps up around 300+ only for a moment then no it shouldnt kick.

 

[Bedwetting Type]

I think it's good that people get kicked. I hate it when I'm playing on a server where everyone has 60 ping except one guy with 200. laggers do the jerky movement/disappear reappear thing which is really annoying. imho, if you have a ping higher than 150 you should find a different server.

Well how do you think the laggers feel?? From their point of view, EVERYONE ELSE is lagging. And for people like me who share their internet connection, finding another server is not going to change anything. We just have to wait it out.

It's made worse when servers run that horrible "dm_bellas_room_deluxe" map. I have an Athlon XP 2700+ and a Radeon 9700 Pro, which handles all other maps just fine. But when I look across that map from one end to the other, I swear I get 2 fps. If the server happens to kick for high ping, I'm gone in short order. Talk about adding insult to injury. I know, I can always join another server, but it's just the stupidity of running bellas_room or somesuch, then kicking you when it causes you to lag, that gets to me. The fact that they provide the server for free is not an excuse.

I think 250+ autokick would be reasonable, but only if the ping is constantly over that level. If it just jumps up around 300+ only for a moment then no it shouldnt kick.

The way it works is the server kicks you if your ping is above the specified level for about 15 seconds or so, cumulative. But your displayed ping is actually an average of your actual ping over a period of time, so it takes some time to sink back down after a lag spell. The server takes full advantage of that.

Insidious, I'll try that command out, thanks for the idea.

 

[Insidious]

Possible sollutions:

Smash the other comps who share your net
(seriously this is the main problem, get a sepparate ISP or something)

Dont play on servers with dm_bellas_room_deluxe or killbox or any laggy maps

 

[.syL]

Well how do you think the laggers feel?? From their point of view, EVERYONE ELSE is lagging. And for people like me who share their internet connection, finding another server is not going to change anything. We just have to wait it out.

It's made worse when servers run that horrible "dm_bellas_room_deluxe" map. I have an Athlon XP 2700+ and a Radeon 9700 Pro, which handles all other maps just fine. But when I look across that map from one end to the other, I swear I get 2 fps. If the server happens to kick for high ping, I'm gone in short order. Talk about adding insult to injury. I know, I can always join another server, but it's just the stupidity of running bellas_room or somesuch, then kicking you when it causes you to lag, that gets to me. The fact that they provide the server for free is not an excuse.



The way it works is the server kicks you if your ping is above the specified level for about 15 seconds or so, cumulative. But your displayed ping is actually an average of your actual ping over a period of time, so it takes some time to sink back down after a lag spell. The server takes full advantage of that.

Insidious, I'll try that command out, thanks for the idea.

Oh my god, you're such a crybaby. The fault is clearly on your side, no matter what the cause. If somebody is downloading at your house, tough luck. Why should everyone else suffer because of you? Server admins pay for their servers, they are free to do whatever the hell they want (within legal restraints). If they want to kick every nick that starts with a "b", so be it, it's not you to complain, just find a different server.


On the technical side: It's an urban myth that a high ping player makes everyone else lag. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that you don't screw up other people's game simply be existing.

There are two main reasons:

- High ping is often associated with packet loss and choke, meaning that everyone else will see you skipping around without being able to hit you. This is ESPECIALLY true if the lag is cause by a saturated connection, as in your case.

- High pingers screw up lag compensation the way it's implemented in hl2 (and hl1). Playing with a high ping means you can still see and shoot everyone, but other people will experience miracle shots by you: If you shoot someone, after recieving that information the server will rewind all players position until they are in the same position as they were when you shot. That means that other people will notice being hit long (in internet terms) after they moved out of your line of sight, which means that dodging a HPB's (high ping bastard) shots is utterly annoying.

The gameing experience for everyone gets better the lower everyone's ping is, because what you actually see on screen will be a lot closer to reality.

Now, combine one and two and you got yourself a sure kick, stop whining about it as if all server admins owed you a right to play on their server.

 

[Beerdude26]

^^ What he said. Especially the part about the fact that servers are free. If you don't like the map the server is running, go to another one.

 

[Bedwetting Type]

On the technical side: It's an urban myth that a high ping player makes everyone else lag. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that you don't screw up other people's game simply be existing.

I find it hard to be annoyed by high pingers when I am occasionally a victim myself, but I'll take your word for it. You're right, the server owner has the right to kick for whatever they want. But there's a difference between having the right, and having an excuse. Personal preference is a good excuse. Ignorance is a bad excuse. It's the urban myth, as you put it, that I have a problem with. It's obvious from prior experience that some admins (note the emphasis) kick under the false impression that a high pinger lags everyone else. It's an inconvenience that has no reason to be there. Perhaps if some of these admins were better informed, they would remove this restriction from their servers. That's really all I want.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because this is a trend that I've seen occurring on some of the more popular servers, and it's not something I've encountered much in the past. I'm just concerned that it will become more widespread if users are not educated about how the game works.

 

[Jintor]

Yeah, well, it is a problem when they kick the second you hit 200+... normally my ping is somewhere around 60 - 127 if i'm playing on Australian (local) servers but then my brother boots up Runescape and momentarily i have 987 ping. Then it goes down back to normal (or, rather, slightly higher than normal). Like, about 178 - 195 ping? But if it auto-kicks then I've got a problem.

Still, i play for fun, not score. So it doesn't bother me too much.

 

[Fuse Kazuki]

I dont even play HL2: DM because every server I enter is laggy, or I lag in it.

 

[gabriel]

High pingers screw up lag compensation the way it's implemented in hl2 (and hl1). Playing with a high ping means you can still see and shoot everyone, but other people will experience miracle shots by you: If you shoot someone, after recieving that information the server will rewind all players position until they are in the same position as they were when you shot. That means that other people will notice being hit long (in internet terms) after they moved out of your line of sight, which means that dodging a HPB's (high ping bastard) shots is utterly annoying.

man! thats why this one guy never missed a single headshot with his stupid revolver in this one game i played. the guy sat there and camped for the entire game and never missed a single shot on anyone. he couldnt have been doing that for real. now i dont feel so bad about the beating i took (even though i still got more kills then him )

 

[.syL]

It's the urban myth, as you put it, that I have a problem with. It's obvious from prior experience that some admins (note the emphasis) kick under the false impression that a high pinger lags everyone else. It's an inconvenience that has no reason to be there. Perhaps if some of these admins were better informed, they would remove this restriction from their servers. That's really all I want.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because this is a trend that I've seen occurring on some of the more popular servers, and it's not something I've encountered much in the past. I'm just concerned that it will become more widespread if users are not educated about how the game works.

You obiously haven't read/understood my post. HPBs do screw up the game, only not for the reason most people think. And the better you get, the more noticable it is.

man! thats why this one guy never missed a single headshot with his stupid revolver in this one game i played. the guy sat there and camped for the entire game and never missed a single shot on anyone. he couldnt have been doing that for real. now i dont feel so bad about the beating i took (even though i still got more kills then him )

I honesty doubt it had anything to do with it

 

[Kyorisu]

You obiously haven't read/understood my post. HPBs do screw up the game, only not for the reason most people think. And the better you get, the more noticable it is.

Also keep in mind the distance to the server. Don't connect to a server on the other side of the country.

Example - You live at point B and want to connect to Point A which is to your left, however your ISP connects through point C to get to point A (Point C is on your right).

 

[Bedwetting Type]

You obiously haven't read/understood my post. HPBs do screw up the game, only not for the reason most people think. And the better you get, the more noticable it is.

No, I understood it just fine. Look, if an admin kicks high pingers because they are annoying to fight, I'll let them off the hook. They fully understand what they are doing. But there's this other class of admins who do it because they are ignorant, and one would assume that an admin would prefer to be informed rather than misinformed.

It's like if 1 out of 4 admins all decided to start kicking people halfway into the game, because it gives good karma. I could always "join another server", but the problem still remains, and it is affecting other players. And it all comes down to a myth. Now do you understand why I'm raising a stink over this?

Also keep in mind the distance to the server. Don't connect to a server on the other side of the country.

Example - You live at point B and want to connect to Point A which is to your left, however your ISP connects through point C to get to point A (Point C is on your right).

The location of the server isn't an issue. I already sort the servers by ping and join the ones that I ping under 100 to, and that look like they are close by.

 

[.syL]

what does it have to do with ignorance? They know that high pingers are bad for the game...they might be wrong on the technical side and the specific reasons, but they are still right in general.

 

[Pro[pH]et]

But there's this other class of admins who do it because they are ignorant

How do you know what category an admin falls under? Are you just guessing?

Weather they are doing it because they believe it lags other players out or if they do it because they find their random movement annoying the result is the same. You get kicked.

There is a big difference between dial up lag and long distance latency.

An admin has the right to create an online environment as close to a lan as possible. Kicking for high ping is a nice tool to help accomplish that.

 

[Edcrab]

I understand the reasons for kicking, I just find it difficult to sympathise with how many of the systems are implemented. Temporary spikes cause chaos, and contrary to popular belief HPBs don't have it easy (although, admittedly, I've never played on a server with anything worse than 350, and even that was back in the day when 120 was average rather than 20)... either way, suddenly getting kicked because you've just ran slap bang into a Flush Entity Packet was always irritating in the old HL days. Someone always got a free kill out of that, so a kick was just rubbing salt into the wound

Ultimately it is the admin's right, it's just really annoying, especially if they don't declare an existing limit in their MOTD- then I, for example, wouldn't bother joining if they made clear their hatred of everyone over 100, saving time and effort for all parties.

 

[Bedwetting Type]

How do you know what category an admin falls under? Are you just guessing?

I don't. But they know their reasons, and if they came to accept the fact that one lagger doesn't cause everyone else to lag, then hopefully those who had that as their reason for kicking people would be glad to cut the players some slack. Better yet, any future admin would know better. Meanwhile, those who kick HPB's because they are annoying to fight, well, there will always be admins who hold that opinion. I'm not here to change people's opinions - I just want everyone to get their facts straight.

There is a big difference between dial up lag and long distance latency.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here...

what does it have to do with ignorance? They know that high pingers are bad for the game...they might be wrong on the technical side and the specific reasons, but they are still right in general.

(I can't believe I'm doing this...)

Let's say there are three types of admins:

1. Hates fighting HPB's.
2. Believes that HPB's make everyone else an HPB.
3. Believes all of the above.

Admin #1 is not ignorant, he simply holds an opinion. Admin #1 will not change.
Admin #2 is ignorant. Admin #2 might change on their own accord if they discovered they were wrong. We can prevent admin #2 from appearing if we dispell this myth whenever it crops up.
Admin #3 is both ignorant and opinionated. Admin #3 will not change.

Does that make sense? Or am I terribly wrong somewhere? :rolling:

 

[Kyorisu]

Does that make sense? Or am I terribly wrong somewhere? :rolling:

That pretty much sums it up right there.

 

[Cole]

I'm a 56ker, very few people actually complain about me... Infact....I mean very very few.
Hell i'm the one complaining most of the time(not on the server). I'll get a lag spike once a while...and it will be at the worst time...right when im about to flank from behind n they don't know it... Then lag spike....waits many seconds....and boom it goes off and im dead.

 

[Bedwetting Type]

That pretty much sums it up right there.

By all means, enlighten me.

I'm a 56ker, very few people actually complain about me... Infact....I mean very very few.
Hell i'm the one complaining most of the time(not on the server). I'll get a lag spike once a while...and it will be at the worst time...right when im about to flank from behind n they don't know it... Then lag spike....waits many seconds....and boom it goes off and im dead.

Don't feel bad, we get lag spikes even on broadband. And yes, it always seems to happen at the worst time. Funny how that works.