Mankind and The Universe

[Top Secret]

I am not sure about everyone else here, but whenever I picture mankind making first contact with another space-faring species, I always think; "Man, I sure hope they are nice and don't destroy or enslave us." Yes, I really do believe there are "Aliens" out there - other intelligent species exploring the our Galaxy.

Especially when taking Drake's Equation into account:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

My Astronomy teacher first taught us about Drake's Equation and I remember him telling us that we knew for a fact that the minimum answer to the equation is one, which is somewhat startling to know. At any rate, inputing parameters into Drake's Equation is very promising. Now back to the original intent of this thread ->

While an aggressive space-faring race is definitely something to fear (not actively, mind you) do you think it is possible that mankind might end up as an aggressive space faring race - assuming we make it far enough to inhabit distant solar systems? How powerful might we become? Is it possible that mankind might become the most powerful species in The Universe's galactic entirety? Mathematically speaking, I obviously doubt it, but it is fun to think about.

I cannot even begin to imagine what inter-species politics would be like, but hopefully one kind would be under one government or at least a set of tied governments (ie, the EU)

It's 3:00 AM.

 

[[Matt]]

First off if you quote the drake equation you have to also mention the Fermi paradox.

The size and age of the universe suggest that many technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilizations ought to exist.
However, this hypothesis seems inconsistent with the lack of observational evidence to support it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

In answer to your question 'do you think it is possible that mankind might end up as an aggressive space faring race?' then it is entirely possible based upon our past history that we would become the aggressors. Think back to the days of European imperial colonisation and how well the native people of the Americas and Africa fared against a far more technologically advanced invader.

 

[Avoidist]

Curiosity comes first, then when we become complacent we'll probably start killing things for profit.

Space is so vast that you won't really have to worry too much for the time being. Best to discuss such things when space travel actually becomes practical, which it almost certainly won't.

 

[Dynasty]

I think we will be able to explore space with lightspeed and lightsabers etc, BUT global warming and our general nature will mean we wont actually get to that stage...imo.

Either way, if we do ever get to that stage, i doubt ill be alive for it. Lightspeed and spacestations/cities in 70 years or so? Please...

 

[[Matt]]

I think we will be able to explore space with lightspeed and lightsabers etc, BUT global warming and our general nature will mean we wont actually get to that stage...imo.

Unfortunately true

 

[ailevation]

What are the chances of other humans inhabiting other planets in other solar systems/galaxies? If there are would if those people have far advances in technology, even more than us people on earth? How could they have done so and is it even possible?

 

[Avoidist]

Lets put this in simple context: the Voyager spacecraft has been traveling for 30 years, and has only just reached the Heliopause, 1 light-day away. The nearest star is Alpha Centauri, which is 4 light years away or ~1400 light-days away. The odds of a star having planets is low, the odds of having a planet with the right temperature and atmosphere is far lower, and it's very difficult to stay warm in the vacuum of space in between. Sorry, we're stuck here until we die, which we undoubtedly will by our own stupidity or sheer chance.

You best start believing in science fiction if you want to rest easy.

 

[Remus]

I am not sure about everyone else here, but whenever I picture mankind making first contact with another space-faring species, I always think; "Man, I sure hope they are nice and don't destroy or enslave us."

Well I for one envision first alien contact to be similar to when the colonists arrived on the American continent. With us mass murdering them either on purpose ( to get their resources), or by mistake (the aliens look so weird we don't even know the planet is inhabited)

do you think it is possible that mankind might end up as an aggressive space faring race - assuming we make it far enough to inhabit distant solar systems?

Highly likely.

How powerful might we become?

Oh, I don't know. How does, being able to destroy entire galaxies at the click of a button sound?

Is it possible that mankind might become the most powerful species in The Universe's galactic entirety? Mathematically speaking, I obviously doubt it, but it is fun to think about.

Given enough time, willpower and right circumstances, anything is possible.

Best to discuss such things when space travel actually becomes practical, which it almost certainly won't.

Yes, because you've seen the future in your cristal ball and you know this for a fact.

BUT global warming and our general nature will mean we wont actually get to that stage...imo.

This pessimism really pisses me off...

What are the chances of other humans inhabiting other planets in other solar systems/galaxies?

Zero, unless you beleave storyes like Battlestar Galactica and Stargate could be true...:upstare:

If there are would if those people have far advances in technology, even more than us people on earth? How could they have done so and is it even possible?

More advanced than us? Sure. Even if both human civilastions here and elswhere started at the same time, they still could be far more advanced than us, simply if they were lucky enough to avoid something like the dark ages (thank you very much religion...).

 

[Tyguy]

Lets put this in simple context: the Voyager spacecraft has been traveling for 30 years, and has only just reached the Heliopause, 1 light-day away. The nearest star is Alpha Centauri, which is 4 light years away or ~1400 light-days away. The odds of a star having planets is low, the odds of having a planet with the right temperature and atmosphere is far lower, and it's very difficult to stay warm in the vacuum of space in between. Sorry, we're stuck here until we die, which we undoubtedly will by our own stupidity or sheer chance.

You best start believing in science fiction if you want to rest easy.

Although the probability of having a planet in the so called Goldilocks zone is low, the shear amount of stars in the galaxy completely trump that fact.

We just need the ability to travel large distances in short periods of time....waiting

 

[<RJMC>]

they will attack us and put weird objects trough our ass

 

[Stigmata]

First off if you quote the drake equation you have to also mention the Fermi paradox.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

In answer to your question 'do you think it is possible that mankind might end up as an aggressive space faring race?' then it is entirely possible based upon our past history that we would become the aggressors. Think back to the days of European imperial colonisation and how well the native people of the Americas and Africa fared against a far more technologically advanced invader.

The Fermi paradox sounds like an argument from ignorance to me. So what if we haven't seen any empirical evidence that other civilizations exist? That doesn't mean that it isn't highly probable that they do.

 

[clarky003]

The universe is way old, we have only been messing with technology properly for just over 100 years. Ever since the discovery of electricity which we still don't really understand, it started to accelerate our development somewhat.

So if anything is advanced enough to get here they will of pretty much unlocked the secrets of the universe, and we will seem so prehistoric in terms of development to them that they would most likely have no interest in us. But if we are anything to go by and races are out there, then there will be advanced races with nice people and bad people depending on their metal state empathy/ego/view of existance etc.

 

[{tDP}ferrari]

I think we will be able to explore space with lightspeed and lightsabers etc, BUT global warming and our general nature will mean we wont actually get to that stage...imo.

Either way, if we do ever get to that stage, i doubt ill be alive for it. Lightspeed and spacestations/cities in 70 years or so? Please...

remember light speed is not possible. That is the fasted possible speed that can be obtained in our space. and if you did manage to go that fast. The time within the ship would be going so slow that what seems months to you would be 100's of years to everyone else.. It would be a very inefficient way to travel. We would have to find some way to travel that would not great affect time within the ship.

 

[Solaris]

I believe Socialism is inevitable and we will achieve it and be peaceful long before we become very advanced.

 

[Stigmata]

remember light speed is not possible. That is the fasted possible speed that can be obtained in our space. and if you did manage to go that fast. The time within the ship would be going so slow that what seems months to you would be 100's of years to everyone else.. It would be a very inefficient way to travel. We would have to find some way to travel that would not great affect time within the ship.

1) Grammar.

2) We're not even half a century into space flight. This is no time to be claiming that lightspeed travel is impossible. Improbable, maybe. Remember how people in the 1800's said humans would never fly?

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I'm an optimist, I don't think we will ever give up how factional we are - its just our nature, but I believe we will eventually make it to other planets and even other stars.

If we don't breach the speed of light, we'd end up with hundreds of solar systems conolised, each one almost ignorant of the other.

If there is a way round, say through wormholes, we could be a united space front - but thats not likely, as we continue to cling to pathetic nationilism even today.

 

[Vigilante]

Carl Sagan on Drake's Equation:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0Ztl8CG3Sys

 

[Tyguy]

Carl Sagan on Drake's Equation:

fixed

 

[Solaris]

We can be reasonably certain that mass will never travel fast than the speed of light.

But there's loads of other ways to get to A-B, perhaps one day we'll be able to make wormholes or whatever.

 

[Tyguy]

But there's loads of other ways to get to A-B, perhaps one day we'll be able to make wormholes or whatever.

But until then we should learn how to make a decent automobile first :dozey:

 

[Crushenator 500]

We need to pump NASA with some money ;p

 

[Tyguy]

We have spent around 500 billion on the war so far. Imagine if that went to NASA.

 

[Cheomesh]

The universe is way old, we have only been messing with technology properly for just over 1M years.

Don't be hating just because the Neolithic peoples didn't have TV.

 

[[Matt]]

We have spent around 500 billion on the war so far. Imagine if that went to NASA.

We could afford 5 more internatinal space stations??

 

[repiV]

I think we will be able to explore space with lightspeed and lightsabers etc, BUT global warming and our general nature will mean we wont actually get to that stage...imo.

Either way, if we do ever get to that stage, i doubt ill be alive for it. Lightspeed and spacestations/cities in 70 years or so? Please...

What? Global warming is going to destroy human civilisation?

What book did you get that load out of - the Old Testament with revised notes by Al Gore?


Anyways, whether you can travel faster than the speed of light or not, long distance space travel incurs massive complications with time. You could leave Earth, do a round trip at light speed for 20 years and come back minutes after you left, only 20 years older. Unless there's an alternative, it's never going to be like jumping on an airliner.

 

[Tyguy]

We could afford 5 more internatinal space stations??

sure, why not?

Any step in improving our space program is a stop in the right direction.

I was thinking more along the lines of speeding up the construction on the new telescope which will be replacing hubble, or attempting to actively start thinking about a manned mars mission.

 

[Cheomesh]

I think Mars is our future to be honest. Gotta take it in small steps or you're inviting ruin.

 

[Tyguy]

screw that, lets go for neptune...

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

Mercury. Convert the entire planet into solar panels

 

[Narvi]

The Moon first. Before that space elevators or something similar.

 

[Jerry_111]

Lets put this in simple context: the Voyager spacecraft has been traveling for 30 years, and has only just reached the Heliopause, 1 light-day away. The nearest star is Alpha Centauri, which is 4 light years away or ~1400 light-days away. The odds of a star having planets is low, the odds of having a planet with the right temperature and atmosphere is far lower, and it's very difficult to stay warm in the vacuum of space in between. Sorry, we're stuck here until we die, which we undoubtedly will by our own stupidity or sheer chance.

You best start believing in science fiction if you want to rest easy.

Before we talk about traveling between STARS, let's focus our vision on our own solar system alone. Our solar system is rich in resources ready to be exploited. No need to go to other stars.

 

[Cheomesh]

Agreed.

 

[Avoidist]

What are the chances of other humans inhabiting other planets in other solar systems/galaxies? If there are would if those people have far advances in technology, even more than us people on earth? How could they have done so and is it even possible?

Was responding to this in particular. Indeed, our solar system does contain enough resources and mystery to keep us occupied for some time now.

Although reading this again, is he talking about another separate race of humans on a mystery planet? Cause that's just nuts.

 

[[Matt]]

I think Mars is our future to be honest. Gotta take it in small steps or you're inviting ruin.

The problem with mars is that terraforming the planet will be close to impossible thanks to its lack of a strong enough magnetic field to protect an atmosphere thick enough for us to live in. The reason mars has an atmospheric pressure that is less than 1% of that os the earths is that the planet doesnt have a Magnetosphere like the earth does and as such its atmosphere has been blown away by solar winds. Any terraforming project would have to tackle that problem by re-igniting the core of mars as stage one in the process which would require near impossible levels of energy to do.

 

[Avoidist]

That and the underlying fact that the gravity is too weak to hold on to lighter atmospheric gases due to Maxwell–Boltzmann distribution curves relating to Mars's escape velocity, which is half that of Earth's.

 

[Eejit]

Step one is getting a space elevator built, imo.

 

[Cheomesh]

The problem with mars is that terraforming the planet will be close to impossible thanks to its lack of a strong enough magnetic field to protect an atmosphere thick enough for us to live in. The reason mars has an atmospheric pressure that is less than 1% of that os the earths is that the planet doesnt have a Magnetosphere like the earth does and as such its atmosphere has been blown away by solar winds. Any terraforming project would have to tackle that problem by re-igniting the core of mars as stage one in the process which would require near impossible levels of energy to do.

I said nothing about terraforming. Terra forming is for morons. You don't really get much of a return for the investment if it could even be done. With our current level of technology, you can create a stable and suitable habitat on Mars. All we need is motivation.

 

[Avoidist]

Where's that over-literary pear when you need his picture...

 

[Stigmata]

I said nothing about terraforming. Terra forming is for morons. You don't really get much of a return for the investment if it could even be done. With our current level of technology, you can create a stable and suitable habitat on Mars. All we need is motivation.

1) Yes. It'd be a lot more cost-effective to just build some small over-ground buildings along with a large network of underground tunnels, roads, and buildings to connect everything, do research, have living quarters, and so forth.

2) You shut up about Terraforming. Terraforming is cooler than a guy on a motorcycle wearing a leather jacket with a cigarette in his mouth, strangling a shark in one arm and holding a dozen women in the other, simultaneously having sex with all of them, while killing Nazis with a single glance of his eyes.

 

[Avoidist]

1) Yes. It'd be a lot more cost-effective to just build some small over-ground buildings along with a large network of underground tunnels, roads, and buildings to connect everything, do research, have living quarters, and so forth.

Ah, so that's what he was on about. I agree in many respects, though admittedly this should be set up on the moon first. It's also hard to have a self-sustaining environment in such a case, most likely requiring a series of constant imports, though it could be done.

2) You shut up about Terraforming. Terraforming is cooler than a guy on a motorcycle wearing a leather jacket with a cigarette in his mouth, strangling a shark in one arm and holding a dozen women in the other, simultaneously having sex with all of them, while killing Nazis with a single glance of his eyes.

You mean Cyclops? He never seemed that cool to me...