Nerf spies, PLEASE

H

headlesschicken

Guest
Am I the only person who thinks spies are too powerful? And that they introduce too much chaos into the game? And in so doing, introduce too much frustration for other players? I really hope that they get nerfed in the next update. Stop them from being able to become invisible; the rest I can live with.

Otherwise - brilliant game. I miss the grenades from the original though.
 
Spies annoy the ever-living shit out of me. They frustrate me to no end. But then I also hate rogues in World of Warcraft as well. I believe that's simply the very nature of a class that's built around sneakily butchering your target from behind whilst unaware.

I honestly think the Spy class is fine. They're balanced, they have appropriate strengths and weaknesses, and they take skill to use effectively. Even though I loathe them, I can't say they need to be changed in any way.
 
You're insane. Spies - too powerful? They're just right. Almost all the classes in TF2 are. (I think all of them are, but I haven't played them all yet). Spies are only as good as their players are - I've seen extremely good spies and moronically obvious ones. It's all down to player skill - and counter-class, of course. Want a tip? If you've got spy problems - INCINERATE EVERYTHING THAT MOVES.\

The ones that catch fire are the spies and/or the enemy. :D
 
Your probably someone who plays engineer as his primary class so its understandable that you'd hate spies but TBH the invisibility IS NOT a problem. If your so bad that you can't stop a spy in the 4+ seconds it takes for him uncloak you shouldn't be playing engineer. Plus, when he uncloaks undisguised your turrets will light him up. Honestly, just practice a bit and learn how to spot spies. Which isn't hard considering how noob most of em are .
 
Spies aren't strong, if he isn't really good every class can spot and own the poor 125 hp out of him.

The only overpowered class are the damn soldiers.

Also good snipers annoy me much more than spies,at least a spy gets close to you..
 
not convinced.

I might be insane, and I might sometimes play engineer. But even playing in defense as demo or heavy I'm sick of sudden, random death. It spoils the fun. I've tried playing defense-pyro and burning everyone I see, but pyro is not a good defense class.

One thing I have noticed, in defense of my plea, is that regularly the top scorers in a game are the spies. That must mean that they're too powerful.

If the invisibility gets nerfed, they can still use disguise and backstabbing and have their evil fun while I'm having mine.

Having said all that, spy is the only class I haven't tried playing yet. I'm going to go try it out and then see how I feel......
 
Losing invisibility would kill the class. Disguises are good when you're among the enemy, but they're dead obvious when - for instance - leavng your base to theirs.

While I have seen spies with exceptionally high lead scores, I've also seen engineers, demomen, and heavies up there as well. Your observations do not conclude anything, and you really should play the class first before calling for the nerf bat.
 
Good players will always rise to the top (like the shit or the cream however you want to look at it) regardless of class. Fact of the matter is some people are very good spies (svenpa for example is pretty good in my book), just as some people are very good demo men, soldiers, heavies, snipers etc. For every good spy I come across there are normally about 6 mediocre ones just asking to be chaingunned, spaded or deep fried at the first opportunity.
 
well......

OK, I played spy. I sucked harder than I have ever sucked before, at anything.

Having now tried out spying at least I can see that there's an art to it.

I'm clearly outvoted here by infinity to one and I can see I need a thick skin to post in this forum. But I'm sticking to my guns. The thing is, I don't mind being sniped, shot, rocketed, mown down by a heavy or blown up by a grenade, but when I'm killed by a spy it just makes the game less fun for me. I'll never change my mind about that.

Maybe for them as like it, spy can remain un-nerfed, so long as someone puts up some "no spies" servers. Alternatively:- I seem to remember having a key bound to I.D. in original TF for spotting spies with, maybe they could bring that back too.
 
headlesschicken said:
The thing is, I don't mind being sniped, shot, rocketed, mown down by a heavy or blown up by a grenade, but when I'm killed by a spy it just makes the game less fun for me.
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I'm with you. They may be balanced and require know how to be useful, but I don't enjoy the spy's inclusion in TF2. A necessary evil, perhaps, and damn annoying.
 
Also, spies get 2 points for a backstab which can put a good spy at the top of a server very quickly. What does need to be changed is engineers getting actual kills for killing sappers. ;)
 
If you want spies nerfed you have better have played a spy in TFC. In fact, go back and try to play one and see how gimped it is without it.

Spies are fine, and, in fact, I'd like to see play dead come back.
 
Last night a spy kept on trying to stick it to me. I always got him and no doubt the person thought I was hacking. These are my tips for spotting a spy:
  1. Any class going back to the base.
  2. People that hang around. TF2 is supposed to be a forward rushing game so it makes no sense for that loner to hang back.
  3. People that hang back and stare at you.
  4. People who can't go through you or you hit a wall of invisible air.
  5. People that don't shoot back when shot at.
  6. People that in general avoid everybody on your team.
  7. They don't act like your team.
  8. People who stick around buildings. They do not have a health stream from a dispenser neither.
If you ever watched the movie, The Thing, then you know how to spot one.
Now to be a good spy I have a few tricks up my sleeve.
  1. Do go invisible when heading into enemy territory for the first time!
  2. Do try to go visible when nobody is watching/heads turned.
  3. Try and get in the battle and act like you're actually helping the enemy side.
  4. Avoid people while invisible.
  5. Rule of thumb on buildings: zap first THEN quickly stab the engineer! Not the other way around.
  6. Don't go hack'em slash'em on people.
  7. With the medic+heavy combo, get the medic first then proceed with the heavy. The heavy is looking away from the medic and doesn't know who is behind him!
  8. If medic's are nearby, ask for a medic. The team will figure an injured teamate is coming back into base.
  9. When zapping buildings, go invisible after.
  10. When shot at, go invisible, and try and get off the main path and stay on the side.
  11. When you do the previous tip, go as a different class while invisible.
  12. Most importantly, when sticking it to the sob, don't **** it up. Do it once and do it right.
The only class that needs major tweeking is the stupid engineer role.
Oh and also light spys on fire and please for the love of God: ALERT YOUR TEAM OF AN INCOMING SPY AND WHAT CLASS HE IS ON USING YOUR MIC! Don't have a mic? Then get one you cheap-o!
 
I found that if you're just disguised, and trying to get into enemy territory, running backwards can help make it less obvious. They'll just think you saw a bunch of people, and are backing up to get more room. I did this in 2fort a lot, and when in the sewers I could run past a medic/heavy without them shooting me, and while they moved forward past me, I just stab em.

People will catch on regardless though, and eventually some will go pyro and just attack everyone, which makes it hard as hell.
 
Krynn72 said:
I found that if you're just disguised, and trying to get into enemy territory, running backwards can help make it less obvious. They'll just think you saw a bunch of people, and are backing up to get more room. I did this in 2fort a lot, and when in the sewers I could run past a medic/heavy without them shooting me, and while they moved forward past me, I just stab em.

People will catch on regardless though, and eventually some will go pyro and just attack everyone, which makes it hard as hell.
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That only works with the noobs.
 
Well, as long as you dont look like a twit. If you back up just enough to get to a corner, then crouch for a minute, people generally dont suspect foul play.
 
Krynn72 said:
Well, as long as you dont look like a twit. If you back up just enough to get to a corner, then crouch for a minute, people generally dont suspect foul play.
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As I said in the other thread, you look suspicious. Questions you should be asking yourself are:
  1. Why is he watching me?
  2. Why is he waiting for me?
  3. Why is he going backwards?
The spy is just thinking "keep going, keep going". :D
 
I usually don't have too much of an issue getting behind people. Just cloak, then uncloak in an non suspicious part of the base, and when you come out, nobody questions you.
 
CyberPitz said:
I usually don't have too much of an issue getting behind people. Just cloak, then uncloak in an non suspicious part of the base, and when you come out, nobody questions you.
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Verily. A good example is the battlements on 2fort - if you cloak, run up there, then come back, nobody'll be suspicious, because - in theory - only teammates and enemy soldiers/scouts/demomen can come from that direction.
 
hool10 said:
As I said in the other thread, you look suspicious. Questions you should be asking yourself are:
  1. Why is he watching me?
  2. Why is he waiting for me?
  3. Why is he going backwards?
The spy is just thinking "keep going, keep going". :D
Click to expand...

Well, no. Im not saying run backwards through the whole map. Just, if you have a feeling someones going to be there, just look like you're going to get a medipack while watching in front of you for "enemies." It works more often than not.
 
Some nice tips for using spy but I think you forgot to mention a few so heres my contribution.

On cp maps like gravel pit as soon as the round starts, go straight to the defenders spawn and sap their teleporters first, you will be amazed how much easier it is to cap A and B if they cant teleport reinforcements.

Don't always be so fast to stab the medic before the heavy, if I see the medic is uber ready of course stab him first, but if the heavy is not firing his gun I will stab the heavy first because most of the time a competant heavy will hear the stab and turn around to kill you.

Time your sapping with the rest of the team, when trying to cap the last point tell them when to attack while you sap the turrets, usually the engineers will be too busy hitting the saps trying to save their turrets to chase you. I always let my uber ready teammates when to rush in as I start sapping, this makes taking the last points much easier.

Use the pistol, most spies other than myself from what I have seen hardly use the pistol, it is very accurate even at distance, so if I am somewhere away from the action I will take shots at people standing still and earn easy kills that way.

As said already in a way, use cloaking wisely. Its best to try and save your cloak meter for when you are attacking the bases or gettin behind enemy lines. Sap then cloak and change class, its easy to confuse the enemy as they will usually say watchout for spy scout etc, so change often but classes NOT so easily detected. My suggestions for disguise are engineer, demo, sniper, and soldier. Sniper is my favorite since you can sit there pretending to be sniping alot easier than pretending to be any of the other classes.
 
It's not that spies are overpowered, it's that most people suck really hard at spychecking atm. I don't know how many times I've spotted someone suspicious in a group of people and been the only one to start firing at what turns out to be a spy hidden in their midst. Or even chasing a disguised spy back through our ranks and firing at him, only to have no one join in and help - even to have a noob friendly medic HEAL the spy for the damage I'd done, despite me being in plain sight firing at the guy.

Seriously, stop moaning and spycheck. With no FF or armour to lose, there is no disincentive at all. People need to be be aware of their appearance to teammates why they're not spying too. For example, if you are wandering in weird patterns near a friendly sentry, with your primary weapon out and not firing, you are wasting that engineer's time and ammo (or that of any nearby teammates) by forcing them to pay attention to you and spycheck. When I'm moving through my own base without any enemies around I always try to have my alternate weapon or melee weapon out, so people don't need to waste time being suspicious of me. If everyone does it, it makes spies stand out like a sore thumb.

Unfortunately a lot of morons still don't get it. I often get spychecked while I'm holding my non-primary - or even while I'm exiting resupply (twice even while I was IN resupply) - while the same idiots miss the obvious spies. This is why spies seem very powerful atm, because too many people are clueless.
 
Kadayi Polokov said:
Fact of the matter is some people are very good spies (svenpa for example is pretty good in my book)
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I can never agree with this statement ever since I saw Sven 'attacking' CP 4 on Well as an Engineer. He lasted all of 3 seconds! :p

I'm guessing his finger slipped and he meant to hit another class, but it was so funny! Svenpa's a good Spy, but he's no Shockwave.
 
The Spy isn't overpowered at all. The overpowered card always comes into play with all online games, BF2, WoW, TF2, and i guess all other games have the constant 'nerf this cos i keep getting owned'

Currently its just because most people are relatively new to the game and its in its first stages, people are discovering what you can do.

After a while i think spies will become an underused class because people will just shoot everything that is in their base to make sure that its not a spy. I hope it doesn't come to that though.
 
Crispy said:
I can never agree with this statement ever since I saw Sven 'attacking' CP 4 on Well as an Engineer. He lasted all of 3 seconds! :p

I'm guessing his finger slipped and he meant to hit another class, but it was so funny! Svenpa's a good Spy, but he's no Shockwave.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that:-

http://steamcommunity.com/id/svenpa/stats/TF2

Pretty good in my book, still I've not seen shockwave in action so hard to judge. Depends how much they help the team at the end of the day.
 
If it's any consolation, I've heard there are spy and medic limits in competitive league matches.
 
I think everybody forgot this one. Spys don't have your name lol! When you see a teamate with your name, it's an instant freebie of saying it's a spy! ;)
 
hool10 said:
I think everybody forgot this one. Spys don't have your name lol! When you see a teamate with your name, it's an instant freebie of saying it's a spy! ;)
Click to expand...

Oh god, that is so funny. I wonder how it determines what name to use, if it just randomly picks one or what? It's not set to class specific names....maybe if the spy is a class that your team doesn't have that class, it picks a name at random, but if it picks a class your team has, it picks one of their names...
 
As far as i know when you pick a class it picks the name of a person on the other team using that class randomly. If noone is using that class i think it comes up with your proper name, although i'm not sure about that.
 
Nitre said:
As far as i know when you pick a class it picks the name of a person on the other team using that class randomly. If noone is using that class i think it comes up with your proper name, although i'm not sure about that.
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It will try to pick a person on the other team with that class yes, but if there is no one of that class it'll just pick anyone out of the other team. I've seen Letters the pyro when I was a heavy for example.
 
Besides, spyrophobia is a great habit to instil in enemy spies. Protip: Only enemy spies catch fire if you flame your own team.
 
I am an Engineer a lot and I hate spys. These are some things I have noticed, some have been mentioned some haven't.

I see a faint blue or red hue of the class the spy is.
I shoot at a my team mate near my turret and they run.
They never shoot back.
They always have my name, funny stuff.
They pick dumbass class's like a sniper in hallways and they hang out there.

Never switch to your shotgun the wrench is was more effective, I have killed more spy's with my wrench then anything. 1 wack to the head GAME OVER. I think it also helps me is my wife loves the Pyro and she usually kills a load of spy's for me. I can see a trend in the servers that the Pyro's are figuring out its good to help the Engineer.

My 2 cents.
 
That's the key...teaming up. If you're getting owned by a spy as an engineer, then have a pyro watch your back.

If spies were nerfed, it would make attacking a turreted defense point even harder than it is now. Then the balance would have to be shifted to make ubercharges quicker...Which would involve no skill at all.
 
Teeheehee. I love this thread. I play a spy pretty much 95% of the time and this thread is basically "I'm scared of spies, please make them rubbish :(" That fear, that anger, it feels so good. Those of you scared will be picked on more!
 
I usually play spy, but im still a bit shit at it. It does, however, feel nice to finally be able to stab people in the back in an FPS. After i get used to it i'm sure i'll enjoy it more than i am already.
 
Hectic Glenn said:
Teeheehee. I love this thread. I play a spy pretty much 95% of the time and this thread is basically "I'm scared of spies, please make them rubbish :(" That fear, that anger, it feels so good. Those of you scared will be picked on more!
Click to expand...

Bring it on :p
 
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