Kyorisu
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New Left 4 Dead DLC - 'Crash Course' Campaign
- Thread starter Hectic Glenn
- Start date
FoxFire
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To all the anti-boycotters:
1.) There are numerous reasons people hate L4D2, and this only knocks over one of the reasons. This small tidbit of news does not invalidate their position. They still have a lot of other points they can stand on. (If you read their Steam Community information, they actually make a lot of goods points. Maybe not convincing enough to boycott the game, but pretty interesting nonetheless.)
2.) I hear more from the anti-boycott side then the boycott side. It almost seems like their position is carving away at your vindication to support Valve, and you need to constantly convince yourself it's going to be worth it. (Not to mention the irony behind ostracizing them for deciding not to purchase a game before it has even been released, even though you've decided to purchase it before it has come out -- neither group actually knows if the game will be any good, but both sides already have their opinions)
1.) There are numerous reasons people hate L4D2, and this only knocks over one of the reasons. This small tidbit of news does not invalidate their position. They still have a lot of other points they can stand on. (If you read their Steam Community information, they actually make a lot of goods points. Maybe not convincing enough to boycott the game, but pretty interesting nonetheless.)
2.) I hear more from the anti-boycott side then the boycott side. It almost seems like their position is carving away at your vindication to support Valve, and you need to constantly convince yourself it's going to be worth it. (Not to mention the irony behind ostracizing them for deciding not to purchase a game before it has even been released, even though you've decided to purchase it before it has come out -- neither group actually knows if the game will be any good, but both sides already have their opinions)
hool10
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The SDK is really hard to use hehe. They really tried hard with the wiki but making a room takes hours.
Anyways I'm just waiting for those "more ideas" that couldn't make it into L4D 2 into L4D 3, 4, 5, and so on. What Valve has shown so far is an expensive expansion pack, yet a great looking one. Just release L4D 2 as a $20 expansion with a new title. Then release it with L4D again. I'm 100% certain that people who thought the original L4D didn't have much will buy the game with a L4D expansion bundled with it. In total it would be $60. I mean Fallout 3 has a billion of these DLC packs that has similar content to what L4D 2 is putting out.
Also I have heard not much rational statements from pro-L4D 2 people. What I hear are them moaning about us, them wanting to throw money at Valve, and trying as hard as possible for Valve to not release anything more for the original. Or usually being the first in a thread to "1UP" a potential boycotter, meanwhile they have not even read the news article.
Anyways I'm just waiting for those "more ideas" that couldn't make it into L4D 2 into L4D 3, 4, 5, and so on. What Valve has shown so far is an expensive expansion pack, yet a great looking one. Just release L4D 2 as a $20 expansion with a new title. Then release it with L4D again. I'm 100% certain that people who thought the original L4D didn't have much will buy the game with a L4D expansion bundled with it. In total it would be $60. I mean Fallout 3 has a billion of these DLC packs that has similar content to what L4D 2 is putting out.
Also I have heard not much rational statements from pro-L4D 2 people. What I hear are them moaning about us, them wanting to throw money at Valve, and trying as hard as possible for Valve to not release anything more for the original. Or usually being the first in a thread to "1UP" a potential boycotter, meanwhile they have not even read the news article.
Ennui
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It was widely reported everywhere in the gaming press. They made a pretty big stink by internet/gaming standards, obviously they aren't out in the streets of Bellevue rioting and trying to burn down Valve HQ but nevertheless it's a pretty big deal relatively speaking.
Foxfire: Don't make me laugh. Boycotters piss me off because I'm a rabid fanboy, not because they are addressing my insecurities about Valve by being man enough to rebel. Furthermore, they are getting shit on by a lot of the community not because they decided not to buy L4D2, but because they decided to make a stink about it instead of simply expressing themselves by not buying it. Thus, entitlement, whiny fags, etc.
You're right, I can't goddamn stand free content. I actually send Gabe emails every week or so demanding that they increase the price of all of their games on steam by 300%, all whilst furiously paypaling him my excess income.hool10 said:
Kyorisu
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Sorry you lost me right there.
FoxFire
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Gasp, media outlets passing the views of a minority off as the concerns of a majority, quick alert the-- .... Oh wait.
Fight the powa
Goddamnit, how dare someone voice their opinion.
Great, the single argument anti-boycotters have. "YOU WANT FREE STUFF?????? BURN IN HELL ******". Sure, some boycotters feel ripped off by content in L4D, but not all of them are claiming a right to free shit. They might be asking for L4D2 to have a reasonable pricetag (aka the same price all other DLC is offered as).
Again, see above.
Kyorisu
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Ennui
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Alright fine, I will waste time on this. Before I get into this, I'll state that some of the boycotters I have spoken with are reasonable about it and I have no real quarrel with them despite our disagreement. It's their less informed, less intelligent peers I take issue with.
The release of Left 4 Dead 2 as a stand-alone sequel will split the communities and decrease the quality of multiplayer gaming.
The first statement in this sentence is true; the communities will split, as some will inevitably go on to L4D2, some will stay with L4D for whatever reason (boycott, lack of money, lack of interest, general preference, whatever). The second is unfounded and inaccurate, or at least I don't personally see how it could be the case, so feel free to enlighten me. A reduction in the overall population of a game does not imply lower quality of gaming experience, unless the reduction is so drastic that there are simply not enough players left over to play it properly. I think we can all agree that will not be the case for self-evident reasons - although I'll happily retract that statement if L4D2 is released and you can't find enough people to fill a Versus server of L4D (yeah right). CS 1.6 is still played extensively despite the existence of CS:S, which is a much larger upgrade compared to the original than L4D2 is intended to be over L4D. Same with DOD, TFC, and non-Valve titles like Battlefield 1942 and the original Unreal Tournament.
-The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead.
At this point, it's simply Valve's opinion vs. that of the boycotters. Valve are professional game developers (arguably among the very best in the industry) with far more knowledge about the content of L4D2 than boycotters. L4D2 lead developer Tom Leonard said it perfectly: "As we started talking that [which was initially proposed as DLC - new weapons, characters, content, mechanics, etc] through, it became clear that we weren't really talking about incremental updates; we were talking about a whole experience. And it would be hard to deliver that totality of experience in incremental bits." With regards to it not warranting a full sequel, I will simply quote Lombardi:
"With Left 4 Dead 2 you're going to have five campaigns, each of them the same size as the original if not a little larger. All five of them will be playable in Versus mode, all five of them will be playable in Survival mode, and then there's a fourth yet unrevealed gameplay mode that will be included as well. "
"There's only been a small bit of Left 4 Dead 2 that's been unveiled; we've only shown one of the new boss monsters, there's going to be at least three, we're working on a fourth that may or may not make it in time for launch. We showed two or three of the melee weapons, there are going to be at least 10."
That's as much content as L4D has, effectively doubling (at minimum) the size and scope of the game.
-Left 4 Dead has not yet received the support and content which Valve has repeatedly stated will be delivered.
It's obviously a work in progress, you can't expect them to get it all out the door at once - L4D was released less than a year ago. DOD:S and CS:S have both been updated with free content for several years after release, patience is required with Valve (as it always has been). TF2 was released almost 2 years ago, and the content stream has been steady. Valve has already released free DLC in the form of the Survival Pack. They have supported the game and community by releasing updates to matchmaking and the server browser. They have just announced the latest in the stream of support and content - a brand new campaign. For free (unless you are playing on 360, in which case you can blame Microsoft for making you pay). The boycotters are merely jumping the gun on this one.
-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 will make Left 4 Dead an obsolete purchase and inferior piece of software after only one year since release.
A few things to say here. First, the one-game-a-year thing is relatively common already, mostly with sports titles but there are games across every genre that have had sequels released in subsequent years, or in a similar timeframe at least - Unreal Tournament 2004 came less than 1.5 years after UT2003. The claim that it will make L4D obsolete is not only impossible to prove or reasonably support, but is directly contradicted both by the behavior of the boycotters who are clearly intent on continuing to play it and by Valve's statements to the contrary, that they will continue supporting and updating L4D despite L4D2's release and are investigating the possibility of cross-play with the hopes of implementing it if at all feasible without sacrificing L4D2's features and gameplay.
-That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.
Already addressed, and this request of theirs is being fulfilled as evidenced by this very thread's topic.
-That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.
This seems like a semantic difference to me, aside from the difference in price expected between an expansion and a sequel. A free update is clearly not going to happen, as it is not financially feasible nor reasonable to expect. Valve is committing an entire team and millions of dollars into L4D2. They have to make some of that back, and they don't owe anybody anything. If it were simply a free update, there would be far less overall new content and thus less of a good experience for everyone involved. Would you really prefer a new boss zombie, a couple of new weapons, and at most 2 new campaigns (including this one) over "at least" 3 boss zombies, more than a dozen new weapons, 5 new campaigns (on top of the free one being released as L4D DLC), new characters, and a new game mode, along with god knows how many other features they haven't revealed yet? As for the compatibility issue, Valve have already stated (as I said before) that they will do it if possible, but we all know that Valve is not fond of sacrificing gameplay for anything, so it seems extremely unreasonable and selfish to say "I'm not willing to pay for a sequel so soon, so I demand you make it backwards compatible at the expense of gameplay so that I cripple and lessen the experience of it for those who ARE willing to pay for a sequel".
-That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.
After writing all this and reading all this and thinking about it, this is the most reasonable point the boycotters have made - too bad they have buried it in an avalanche of juvenile whining and flaming. I personally feel that I have gotten $50 worth of enjoyment out of L4D. Perhaps not in comparison to Valve's other titles, but only because it is one of my least favorite - in a grander context I certainly think the 100 or so hours of fun I've had playing L4D was worth far more than the equivalent $50 price of these other things:
- 5 movies in the movie theater
- 1-2 tanks of gas depending on your tank
- 2-4 DVDs
- 95% of other videogames
- Two nights drinking at a bar
- One decent dinner for 2
- 3.5 months of WoW
So on and so forth. For this reason I believe L4D2, which has equal to or greater than the same amount of fresh content L4D did, is worth another $50. This one is purely a matter of opinion, but even if you feel different than I do it is hardly a point you can convincingly argue.
BEGIN ARGUMENTATIVELY IRRELEVANT FANBOY OPINIONATIN'
From a fanboy perspective, all I have to say on top of this is that Valve has never treated us fans badly - even you guys with your rampant disrespect, flaming, and entitlement (I know it isn't all of you, but it sure is a lot of you) have received great and prompt attention from them and Valve has tried very hard to satisfy you guys regardless of whether or not your demands are reasonable. Furthermore, even if I didn't believe L4D2 to be worth $50, or was more skeptical about it, I'd still say that Valve deserves the benefit of the doubt given that they have a history of making painstakingly polished, fun games with a higher level of quality than almost any other gaming studio.
If you want to complain about the value of your money and what you're getting, you could take issue with anybody you wanted, so why Valve when there are so many other candidates that have far few shining qualities? For instance EA, who pumps out sequels on a yearly basis for every sports game they can sell, and which are usually not much more of an upgrade than updated player stats/team information for that year and maybe a couple new features or graphical upgrades?
END ARGUMENTATIVELY IRRELEVANT FANBOY OPINIONATIN'
That's all I have to say. Feel free to respond to this reasonably, in the nature of discussion, as I'd love to be proven wrong about all this and will honorably concede any point made in opposition that holds logical weight.
Let's split this up and look at it rationally. I'll try to keep this as logical and unemotional as possible, and just make the fanboy argument separately at the end to stop you people from being so HURRR about it.Boycott Manifesto said:
The release of Left 4 Dead 2 as a stand-alone sequel will split the communities and decrease the quality of multiplayer gaming.
The first statement in this sentence is true; the communities will split, as some will inevitably go on to L4D2, some will stay with L4D for whatever reason (boycott, lack of money, lack of interest, general preference, whatever). The second is unfounded and inaccurate, or at least I don't personally see how it could be the case, so feel free to enlighten me. A reduction in the overall population of a game does not imply lower quality of gaming experience, unless the reduction is so drastic that there are simply not enough players left over to play it properly. I think we can all agree that will not be the case for self-evident reasons - although I'll happily retract that statement if L4D2 is released and you can't find enough people to fill a Versus server of L4D (yeah right). CS 1.6 is still played extensively despite the existence of CS:S, which is a much larger upgrade compared to the original than L4D2 is intended to be over L4D. Same with DOD, TFC, and non-Valve titles like Battlefield 1942 and the original Unreal Tournament.
-The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead.
At this point, it's simply Valve's opinion vs. that of the boycotters. Valve are professional game developers (arguably among the very best in the industry) with far more knowledge about the content of L4D2 than boycotters. L4D2 lead developer Tom Leonard said it perfectly: "As we started talking that [which was initially proposed as DLC - new weapons, characters, content, mechanics, etc] through, it became clear that we weren't really talking about incremental updates; we were talking about a whole experience. And it would be hard to deliver that totality of experience in incremental bits." With regards to it not warranting a full sequel, I will simply quote Lombardi:
"With Left 4 Dead 2 you're going to have five campaigns, each of them the same size as the original if not a little larger. All five of them will be playable in Versus mode, all five of them will be playable in Survival mode, and then there's a fourth yet unrevealed gameplay mode that will be included as well. "
"There's only been a small bit of Left 4 Dead 2 that's been unveiled; we've only shown one of the new boss monsters, there's going to be at least three, we're working on a fourth that may or may not make it in time for launch. We showed two or three of the melee weapons, there are going to be at least 10."
That's as much content as L4D has, effectively doubling (at minimum) the size and scope of the game.
-Left 4 Dead has not yet received the support and content which Valve has repeatedly stated will be delivered.
It's obviously a work in progress, you can't expect them to get it all out the door at once - L4D was released less than a year ago. DOD:S and CS:S have both been updated with free content for several years after release, patience is required with Valve (as it always has been). TF2 was released almost 2 years ago, and the content stream has been steady. Valve has already released free DLC in the form of the Survival Pack. They have supported the game and community by releasing updates to matchmaking and the server browser. They have just announced the latest in the stream of support and content - a brand new campaign. For free (unless you are playing on 360, in which case you can blame Microsoft for making you pay). The boycotters are merely jumping the gun on this one.
-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 will make Left 4 Dead an obsolete purchase and inferior piece of software after only one year since release.
A few things to say here. First, the one-game-a-year thing is relatively common already, mostly with sports titles but there are games across every genre that have had sequels released in subsequent years, or in a similar timeframe at least - Unreal Tournament 2004 came less than 1.5 years after UT2003. The claim that it will make L4D obsolete is not only impossible to prove or reasonably support, but is directly contradicted both by the behavior of the boycotters who are clearly intent on continuing to play it and by Valve's statements to the contrary, that they will continue supporting and updating L4D despite L4D2's release and are investigating the possibility of cross-play with the hopes of implementing it if at all feasible without sacrificing L4D2's features and gameplay.
-That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.
Already addressed, and this request of theirs is being fulfilled as evidenced by this very thread's topic.
-That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.
This seems like a semantic difference to me, aside from the difference in price expected between an expansion and a sequel. A free update is clearly not going to happen, as it is not financially feasible nor reasonable to expect. Valve is committing an entire team and millions of dollars into L4D2. They have to make some of that back, and they don't owe anybody anything. If it were simply a free update, there would be far less overall new content and thus less of a good experience for everyone involved. Would you really prefer a new boss zombie, a couple of new weapons, and at most 2 new campaigns (including this one) over "at least" 3 boss zombies, more than a dozen new weapons, 5 new campaigns (on top of the free one being released as L4D DLC), new characters, and a new game mode, along with god knows how many other features they haven't revealed yet? As for the compatibility issue, Valve have already stated (as I said before) that they will do it if possible, but we all know that Valve is not fond of sacrificing gameplay for anything, so it seems extremely unreasonable and selfish to say "I'm not willing to pay for a sequel so soon, so I demand you make it backwards compatible at the expense of gameplay so that I cripple and lessen the experience of it for those who ARE willing to pay for a sequel".
-That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.
After writing all this and reading all this and thinking about it, this is the most reasonable point the boycotters have made - too bad they have buried it in an avalanche of juvenile whining and flaming. I personally feel that I have gotten $50 worth of enjoyment out of L4D. Perhaps not in comparison to Valve's other titles, but only because it is one of my least favorite - in a grander context I certainly think the 100 or so hours of fun I've had playing L4D was worth far more than the equivalent $50 price of these other things:
- 5 movies in the movie theater
- 1-2 tanks of gas depending on your tank
- 2-4 DVDs
- 95% of other videogames
- Two nights drinking at a bar
- One decent dinner for 2
- 3.5 months of WoW
So on and so forth. For this reason I believe L4D2, which has equal to or greater than the same amount of fresh content L4D did, is worth another $50. This one is purely a matter of opinion, but even if you feel different than I do it is hardly a point you can convincingly argue.
BEGIN ARGUMENTATIVELY IRRELEVANT FANBOY OPINIONATIN'
From a fanboy perspective, all I have to say on top of this is that Valve has never treated us fans badly - even you guys with your rampant disrespect, flaming, and entitlement (I know it isn't all of you, but it sure is a lot of you) have received great and prompt attention from them and Valve has tried very hard to satisfy you guys regardless of whether or not your demands are reasonable. Furthermore, even if I didn't believe L4D2 to be worth $50, or was more skeptical about it, I'd still say that Valve deserves the benefit of the doubt given that they have a history of making painstakingly polished, fun games with a higher level of quality than almost any other gaming studio.
If you want to complain about the value of your money and what you're getting, you could take issue with anybody you wanted, so why Valve when there are so many other candidates that have far few shining qualities? For instance EA, who pumps out sequels on a yearly basis for every sports game they can sell, and which are usually not much more of an upgrade than updated player stats/team information for that year and maybe a couple new features or graphical upgrades?
END ARGUMENTATIVELY IRRELEVANT FANBOY OPINIONATIN'
That's all I have to say. Feel free to respond to this reasonably, in the nature of discussion, as I'd love to be proven wrong about all this and will honorably concede any point made in opposition that holds logical weight.
Kyorisu
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There are less informed and less intelligent people everywhere you look. Getting angry at such people is a waste of time. As for the Manifesto portion of your post again I don't see why you bothered. You're preaching to the choir here. Get over it. You take issue with people for the sake of it. Their opinions and their purchasing decisions are theirs and theirs alone. Whatever final decision they make will not effect you.
BlueWolf72
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BlueWolf72
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Ya I am such a moron. I call it comedy. The group is a fad. It is like signing a on line petition but not. This boy camp is on a steam community group.
BlueWolf72
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Im not calling anyone out just think the group is lame have from the very start. You have every right to think the way you do. I'll buy l4d2 for you kyorisu cause it will be fun game we can kill zombies.
Kyorisu
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Well I'll agree with you that much. The comparison I make is those "I hate facebook" groups on facebook. People love to make these groups and I just carry on ignoring them. The only thing I'll be apart of Steam wise are gaming networks and my own personal friend groups as you can see here http://steamcommunity.com/id/kyorisu/groups
Ennui
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I bothered because I've not bothered yet so far to make an actual response to the legions of boycotters in the dozens of relevant discussions I've seen and/or participated in both here and elsewhere in the Valve community (instead resorting to the same confrontational non-argumentative methods you're using now), and I'm tired of hearing the excuse that anti-boycott people are ripping on boycotters for no reason other than to call them whiners or what have you. Like I said, I don't give a damn if people are going to skip over L4D2 for whatever reasons, but if they're going to whine and argue about it and make it into a big deal I'm going to give them some kind of response. Isn't that the point of a discussion forum? I could ignore every opinion on the internet that doesn't agree with mine but if people actually did that the discussion/community sphere of the internet would be about 1/100th of the size it is.
Also I'm not angry, I don't lose sleep over it, I just enjoy arguing with people both as a mental exercise and as a way to re-validate my own views. There's no requirement to defend one's reasons for choosing to talk about something, and furthermore I feel compelled to defend Valve as they are my favorite game developer and I stick up for things I care about.
Kyorisu
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I laugh at the entire situation it's just regular internet drama at the end of the day.
1. People argue, whine, whatever about L4D2.
2. People argue, whine, whatever about 1.
3. People argue, whine, whatever about 1 and 2
But people are doing it. The sheer fact there are people who are opposed to people boycotting the game says as much. You had people patiently waiting for updates for L4D and we got some minor fixes and additions for Valve to later announce L4D2. How do you think people felt then and now? They're pissed and rightfully so. There are plenty of valid criticisms regarding this whole matter and what you're saying is you want to argue with the lowest common denominator. Why would you want to do that?
1. People argue, whine, whatever about L4D2.
2. People argue, whine, whatever about 1.
3. People argue, whine, whatever about 1 and 2
But people are doing it. The sheer fact there are people who are opposed to people boycotting the game says as much. You had people patiently waiting for updates for L4D and we got some minor fixes and additions for Valve to later announce L4D2. How do you think people felt then and now? They're pissed and rightfully so. There are plenty of valid criticisms regarding this whole matter and what you're saying is you want to argue with the lowest common denominator. Why would you want to do that?
Ennui
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I'm willing to discuss it with anyone. I would like to hear these valid criticisms of yours, since I tried to address the obvious ones in my post up there. I may troll the moron boycott tards, but that post in particular was aimed at anyone who feels that way regardless of whether they're your typical internet idiot or not.
I just don't see the fuss - if you don't want to pay for it then don't buy it, surely it's that simple?
And why get angry or frustrated that people are going to boycott something? Can't we all just get along?
Personally I'm just happy to see some extra levels released for L4D regardless of the existence of a sequel
And why get angry or frustrated that people are going to boycott something? Can't we all just get along?
Personally I'm just happy to see some extra levels released for L4D regardless of the existence of a sequel
BakonGuy
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new content for left 4 dead is announced, and i'm happy about it. But everyone else is just caught up in arguing about the boycott. Is this a sign of what the world has come to? OMG they didn't give us free content right away, lets boycott the sequel.
Born
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Kyorisu, why bother babbling on. You've expressed your point - I'm not buying L4D2. I don't know; are you looking for attention? Do you expect people to care and challenge you? To me, the boycott stands as a group simply to try and discredit Valve. Why didn't you all just say "I'm not buying that" and leave it at that? Instead of pulling a hissy fit. Maybe you lot should stop whining for a second & take a look at what these bankers are doing nowadays. Christ. Get over yourselves.
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I'd be more impressed with the boycotters if they just, you know, didn't buy it. Proved their point. Except I Would say that approximately 90% of them that were able to buy it in the first place will go on to buy it anyway, regardless of their group membership.
lefty
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Shamrock's avatar moves in time to lady gaga's "poker face". Thought I'd point that out.
Also "The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead."
Free or otherwise? As in paying? As in the problem people are having with L4D2?
Go ahead and make it cost money. Let it be five dollars an update. After the twenty or so updates it would take to get all the new content out they might realize what dumbshits they are.
Also "The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead."
Free or otherwise? As in paying? As in the problem people are having with L4D2?
Go ahead and make it cost money. Let it be five dollars an update. After the twenty or so updates it would take to get all the new content out they might realize what dumbshits they are.
FoxFire
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The biggest reason Valve wants them to be separate games is because of the severely contrasting ideologies between the two games, not because of a "sheer amount of content". Take MMOs for instance: they push out large content updates all the time and somehow manage fit it into a single update. This includes large engine overhauls, adding entirely new continents, etc.
I completely understand why Valve wants to make a distinction between the two titles, but don't fool yourself into believing it's because of an overabundance of content.
Cornerstone
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So we're judging the actions of others before they make such actions? My hopes of mass murder and getting away with it by Hitler/time paradox may yet be possible.
lefty
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If everything we've heard to be in L4D2 was released as downloads about the size of, say, the TF2 updates, that'd be maybe a campaign and 3 weapons each time, plus any bug or glitch fixes and other technical stuff that get updates... that's at least five updates there for the campaigns alone, six if you count crash course.
I agree with you though, the game in its entirety feels like a sequel, not mission packs like we've come to expect when we hear "DLC".
BlueWolf72
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Well, on the poster, it shows one of them holding an MP5 with an Acog scope and it looks like one of them are holding a different kind of shotgun. Heck, they all look like they are holding different weapons so maybe there will be new weapons.
Mr-Fusion
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And valve will still make millions of dollars on left for dead 2, so really having any opinion is fairly useless because valve is laughing all the way to the bank. hahaha! :cheers:
And pimurho is right. Look at the transformers 2 thread in films/tv forum. Everyone says it is shit yet they paid money for it. They also all said transformers 1 was shit. They knew transformers 2 was going to be shit but they paid money for it anyway.
In the case of left for dead 2, you know you bought left for dead 1 and are goddamn pissed off that there aren't enough good updates. Yet you'll still go out and buy left for dead 2 because you're a goddamn brainless consumer whore.
This is how you do business! It's brilliant. People are retards.
Otto-Grainer
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AWESOME!
Shem
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This made me laugh, but it is so true.
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