New screen caps of TF2!

Delicious Cake we get in October... hopefully :p nice screens, maybe new footage soon, too?
 
Delicious Cake we get in October... hopefully :p nice screens, maybe new footage soon, too? Which would be nice instead of waiting even longer. :(
 
2fort looks alot different now. They added a roof to the bridge and it looks nothing like it setting wise. I wish they would have kept it looking somewhat the same.
 
OmegaX said:
2fort looks alot different now. They added a roof to the bridge and it looks nothing like it setting wise. I wish they would have kept it looking somewhat the same.
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Personally I never properly got into TFC, despite owning it. And I'm glad they're changing it to something unique, because it's meant to be a brand new game, and not just a Source Port. No doubt you'll get your 2fort from the community, and chances are it'll look pretty much exactly like TFC, which is what you want yeah? Good.
 
It's not just alittle change, it's completly different. When I first looked at those screenshots it took me some time to realize that was 2fort.
 
It's visually different, yes, but from everything we've heard, the layout is much the same.

I'm sure it'll play a little differently, but I bet those changes have a good reason behind them. Honestly, go play TFC if you want exactly the same thing.
 
This isn't just a visual difference. And it's not about "people don't like change." It's drastic. You have to understand, 2fort is old. 10.5+ years old. It has strategies in place...by placing a roof there you effectively cut off those strategies. Now I'll tell you, 2fort's not even high on my favorite maps, not by far, but what you've got here isn't 2fort. Covering the bridge makes it a whole different entity. The bridge is THAT crucial.

Allow me to run down what this roof means:

1. First and foremost, you've created a killbox. Bridge underfoot, roof overhead, and the sides are blocked halfway meaning you actually have to jump over the side if you want to reach the water. Now, in matches where offense vs. offense and yard defense are disallowed, it won't be too much of a problem. In pubs...you get an HW and a medic at one end of the bridge, hello slaughter.

2. The roof provides cover. There seem to be gaps, I can't tell how large they are, but it doesn't matter anyway. You have cover. This means that snipers have a much more limited window of when they can shoot incoming offense.

3. The roof blocks rjump. You're going to have to get right up to the base before rjump, which means you're going to have to cut your momentum before jump.

4. It forces the ways you can get to the enemy base. I guess you can go OVER the bridge, like the scout is doing, but unless the map ceiling is high, you probably won't be able to propel yourself from the roof to the battlements if you aren't a double jump-enabled scout. If you're any of the other classes, you're probably restricted from that, and even if you COULD do it, you'd be taking damage twice from a rocket/pipe/grenade/what have you to get up onto the bridge, then onto the battlements.

4b. This is really more of a sub part of that than its own point, but what this does is force the water route more. Also, I noticed that there don't appear to be walls on the sides of the base...many many years ago I came up with a way for soldiers to get past the bridge onto the other side, but only if there are walls. It'd be easy enough without walls if you had grenades, or if this was old TFC before the bunnyhop limiter, but now? Looks like the bridge or the water. Or over the bridge. And over the bridge means no sniper cover, so you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bitching about it. I'm just saying it DRASTICALLY changes up the map. It no longer seems like a 2fort. Every 2fort has an uncovered bridge...2fort, 2morfort, 2fort_r, 2 big forts. Also, all the maps that follow the 2fort template, like openfire_l, cydonia, my beloved bam, dozens more. The basic layout has molded how we play the game. It's just weird, man. You know, you see the soldiers rocket jumping in that original preview video of TF2, doing their rjump ballet, and they can't even do it anymore because of the roof.

Stupid roof. But, whatever. I'm not beyond adaptation of tactics. I've found a way to get around a lot of stuff in TFC; TF2 will be no different. I'm already thinking of ways I can outthink that roof. That roof has become an obstacle; obstacles are my enemy; I will defeat the roof.


EDIT: After careful review of the new TF2 video that's up on that German site, there appear to be chainlink fences surrounding the map. If they can be shot, which I'm sure they probably can be, then I've already gotten around that bridge.
 
Darkside55 said:
Stupid roof. But, whatever. I'm not beyond adaptation of tactics. I've found a way to get around a lot of stuff in TFC; TF2 will be no different. I'm already thinking of ways I can outthink that roof. That roof has become an obstacle; obstacles are my enemy; I will defeat the roof.
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Well yeah, I'm pretty sure this would be Valve's intention in implementing such a striking addition - forcing people to change up their play a bit. It's highly doubtful that they would do something like covering the bridge on 2fort without thinking about and testing out the gameplay implications.

Other changes - such as changing Well from a CTF map to something else - I am a little dubious about, but the change of style on 2fort to me is just...interesting.

While I can't see anything wrong with your list, we won't know if any of those things will be a good or bad thing, or even if they're very accurate statements at all, until we play the map. Which you've acknowledged, but yeah.
 
If you want it without the bridge, play TFC, or a user created version which will surely come.

I will not question the change until I see how it plays.
 
It still boils down to 'it's different from everything I've seen before, so now I must panic'. Yes, ye ole 2fort has strategies in place, but those strategies were made for a different game. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but for the similarities, a great deal of TF2's gameplay is different from previous iterations of the game. If the roof helps differentiate the classes more (as you have described), you've already sort of given the change a good reason, in my book. Part of the point of the game is that each class plays differently. If three classes are able to do the same thing with the same level of ease, that contradicts the previous statement, no?

The layout of the maps, from all accounts, is still much the same. You've got two bases separated by a short gap with a canal and a bridge. Despite being visually disparate, I would bet money that the inner layouts are fairly close to one another.

The covered bridge would also obviously make sniping a fair deal more challenging, which isn't a bad thing, and I'd imagine pulling off a kill on the bridge would be even more satisfying.

In the end, however, the entire argument is pointless because there's as good a chance as not that they'll decide the change was not good and remove it again. The game's still in active playtesting, as you may have noticed. I doubt they'll be forced to nail down an absolute final version for another month yet; before they have to start thinking about disc production and distribution.
 
Silarn said:
It still boils down to 'it's different from everything I've seen before, so now I must panic'. Yes, ye ole 2fort has strategies in place, but those strategies were made for a different game. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but for the similarities, a great deal of TF2's gameplay is different from previous iterations of the game. If the roof helps differentiate the classes more (as you have described), you've already sort of given the change a good reason, in my book. Part of the point of the game is that each class plays differently. If three classes are able to do the same thing with the same level of ease, that contradicts the previous statement, no?
Click to expand...
I know the style of this game is different, but it is not so different as to completely throw out what one has learned from any previous Fortress game. QWTF to TFC to Q3F, UTF, all other versions of Fortress play in a similar manner. They all handle differently, but the basics remain the same. And I'm letting you know, what I said about the bridge will come to pass.

And to reiterate, I'm not bitching. I'm just letting people know how it's going to be. I worry not about the bridge anymore; I've already defeated the bridge in my head four separate ways; all that remains now is to test them out. :)

But the bridge will become a pub killbox. Mark my words. Bodies everywhere inside that thing. Just be aware of it.
 
Darkside55 said:
But the bridge will become a pub killbox. Mark my words. Bodies everywhere inside that thing. Just be aware of it.
Click to expand...

awesome. as someone stated on the steam forums, this forces people to use the water more. makes the routs that people didn't use as much before more important, which i can tell you as a mapper is a good thing. no one likes to see part of their map go unused because one part is just far too appealing to use. either way, i have a feeling valve is going to test the shit out of that bridge. who knows, maybe those panels will come off after a certain amount of damage? now i think that would be cool.

as for those chain linked fences... i kind of doubt that those will be able to be shot down. but if they are... well awesome. but by having a level boundary destructible it means that the mapper has to add that much more detail and possibly drop a bit of the frame rate for the extra render cost.
 
undertone said:
as for those chain linked fences... i kind of doubt that those will be able to be shot down. but if they are... well awesome. but by having a level boundary destructible it means that the mapper has to add that much more detail and possibly drop a bit of the frame rate for the extra render cost.
Click to expand...

They won't be destructable, that would serve no purpose. What I meant earlier by, "if they can be shot," I meant if they register hits like a physical entity rather than just having projectiles pass through them. I need splash damage coming off those walls.
 
Darkside55 said:
They won't be destructable, that would serve no purpose. What I meant earlier by, "if they can be shot," I meant if they register hits like a physical entity rather than just having projectiles pass through them. I need splash damage coming off those walls.
Click to expand...

ooooh ok. i gotcha.
 
V-Man's opinion on the bridge

Darkside may sound like he's bitching but he's basically listed everything there is to say about the bridge so I wouldn't exactly call that bitching if I were you, and yes that place will be a hell of a killzone. I can't wait to be a heavy :devil:.
To all the tfc "it noobish cause you cant snipe!!!11" idiots out there: It's called Team Fortress 2,not "Team Fortress Classic Source" or something incredibly lame like that. They are not putting that thing there just to ruin it. This is here to balance out the game and classes (heavy would get sniped if he was holding the bridge in tfc, however in tf2 you need sniping skills to shoot that heavy) and Valve is not trying to ruin your game, so if you don't like it then go play Fortress Forever along with all those other noobs. Though, if you don't really care and/or just feel like bitching on a forum, then get a fricking life.
 
Yum.. The only thing I dislike is 2fort's new bridge roof.
 
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