Only 40% of Americans accept evolution

Assuming the fish could go to land there would be several problems with this:
1. Carrying of weight, sea dwelling creatures do not worry about weight yet creatures on land consume around 40% of energy carrying their weight around-thus the fish would need to develop new skeletal and muscles systems.

Ok: so? This is exactly what the fossil record shows them developing.

2. Heat retention, land temperatures are subject to more fluctuations and sea dwelling creatures would need a new system to protect themselves

Again, so? Creatures have obviously figured out all sorts of ways to handle this, and the development of new ways is not implausible. Reptiles today, for instance, often manage body temperature simply by moving in and out of the sun and water.

You are raising issues with moving from water to land, but I'm not sure why. Sure, land has all sorts of different challenges. But evolution is exactly about how these challenges were met. If your implication is that dealing with them is an "all or nothing" proposition, then you are simply mistaken. It's not. Dealing with them is part of moving onto land, but becoming fully land based and accustomed to that lifestyle took millions of years of different gradual modification, and many creatures still haven't made the transition completely even today (in part because there is nothing special or inevitable about the transition: frogs do just fine being partly aquatic and partly suited for land: they don't necessarily NEED to become more land based).

5. Respiratory, fish would need a perfect lung system to breathe overground These characteristics would be needed at the same time if a water-dwelling creature was to live on land.

Most lobed fishes ALREADY had a lung system. It wasn't "perfect" but it worked decently enough to allow them to get air out of the atmosphere. Again, like all the rest, it wasn't something that had to happen overnight. There are all sorts of papers on the evidence of how each and every one of these traits evolved.

There is a similar problem with birds. Their wings, respiratory and other systems are perfectly adapted so they can fly but they need to be fully formed or else they cant.

But again, this is just assuming that to make it in life, you must have full and perfect flight just like a modern bird. Why assume that? It's not even clear that feathers arose for flight in the first place: several dinosaurs had them that clearly could never have flown, and they may have used them for warmth instead.

There is a cotinuum of usefulness from being a fast runner on ground all the way to flight. Being able to glide, even for short distances, for instance, has advantages. Evolution only needs a tiny amount of advantage for some trait to be selected for. It doesn't forsee flight and design towards it: it simply selects traits that happen to play a role in improving survival in some environment, and then, if its still useful to do so, keeps building on them.

There is also no transitional bird forms and fossils prove that 120 million years ago birds had the same indistinguishable features that birds have today.

Nonsense. I already linked one. Ancient birds didn't have the eact same flight capability and exact specialities and variations of birds today, but they had traits that worked in their ecology and which are distinctive and obvious ancestors of traits that all birds share today.

Another thing id like to ask is if evolutionists were so sure about evolution then why where there hoaxes like the 'Piltdown man' where paleoanthropologist Charles Dawson announced a discovery of a jawbone and a cranial fragment, this was meant to be proof of human evolution. After 40 years fluorine testing proved that the two were different. The cranial fragment had more fluorine than the jawbone which meant they were separate. The teeth were specifically arranged in an array and added to the jaw. Then the pieces were stained with Potassium Dichromate to give a dated appearance. The stains disappeared when dipped in acid.

If anything, this goes against your case. Piltdown man was indeed a careful fraud, but it was discovered so late in part because it wasn't paid much attention to in the first place: it was considered unremarkable other than being somewhat of a questionable anomaly in that it didn't really fit in anywhere obvious with all the other fossil finds. When it was exposed as a fraud, it was scientists that exposed it as a fraud! The fact that someone made one or two frauds out of THOUSANDS of legitimate fossil is hardly much help in trying to hadnwave away human evolution. You can't wave away all that evidence by mere reference to the fact that someone passed off a fraud for a while when that fraud was basically not very remarkable.

Human evolution is also hampered by recent research which reveals it is impossible for a bent ape skeleton with a quadripedal stride to evolve into an upright human skeleton fit for bipedal stride.

Cite for this research showing that it is "impossible"? I mean, come on. Even some apes around today can walk bipedally, some for short distances, but a few almost all the time. Is it just a coincidence that apes are partially bipedal, and that their hips have only slight balancing differences from ours?

Since evolutionists also state that life started with a cell that formed by chance.

First of all, no. This isn't part of evolutionary theory proper: it's generally referred to as abiogenesis. The two theories aren't dependent on each other, because they involve different mechanisms and one can be true without the other being true.

Second of all, no one thinks that likfe started with anything that looked even remotely like a modern cell. It would have been far far simpler. It may not have even had a cell membrane, for instance.

According to the scenario, four billion years ago various inorganic chemical compounds underwent a reaction in the primordial earth atmosphere in which the correct conditions formed a cell.

Again, no, not likely a cell, or at least, not anything like what we call a cell today.

However, this has not been verified scientifically by any experiment or observation so far (e.g. on planets).

This is a bizarre statement. No, we do not have a complete picture of how life began: what it looked like, even which elements of life came first (metabolism? heredity?) But that doesn't mean that there is nothing scientific about the inquiry, that we have learned nothing, and that the field isn't worth pursing. It's steadily delivered all sorts of fascinating results as to how early life could have evolved.

We haven't really studied any other planets for life, so we'll just have to wait and see on that.

Moreover, the cell is such a complex structure any attempt to synthesis or imitate it have been fruitless. The cell is so complex that even a high level of technology cannot create one. Yet evolutionists claim that this cell was created by chance in primordial earth.

Nope. This is a straw man. No one thinks a complex modern cell is what early life was like. That's, in fact, almost 100% backwards, because modern cells are the MOST evolved structures on the planet: they are the furthest from early life of anything.

He also calculated the coincidental formation of the 2000 proteins found in a single bacterium which was found to be 1 over 10 followed by 40000 zeros. Even producing a useful amino acid by chance had a probability of 1 over 10 followed by 950 zeros.

These calculations are pure nonsense even if it hadn't already made the mistake of using a bacterium (of which even the simplest is still a vastly more evolved and complex strucutre than early life would ahve been). You cannot model chemical reactions or early ecologies as random assemblages. It makes no sense. The probabilities aren't all indepedent, you don't know the conditions, and the idea that a SPECIFIC protein has to be created is as ludicrous as me dealing you a hand of poker and telling you that the odds on getting that hand are a million million to one, and so it must have been a miracle. There's so much wrong with the logic here it's hard to even know where to start.

Similarly there are problems with evolution of complex parts of the body such as the eye, respiratory system, circulatory system because as evolutionists state, in transitional creatures some of the systems should be ‘developing’ but if this were the case the whole system would not work because of its entire complexity.

Again, while we don't know everything about the evolution of everything, the arguments that evolving these things was impossible, or that they needed to be "all or nothing" simply doesn't fly. It isn't so. If you actually read actual papers concerning the evolution of these things, or even just look at actual living life today, you'll see all sorts of different ways for different systems to work and evolve.

[qote]Mutations caused are unlikely ever to be useful. During tens of thousands of experiments on creatures to see if any positive mutation came out, there was not an affirmative result.[/quote]

Simply not true at all. I mean geez: there are hundreds of papers every YEAR in biology journals that would make no sense if this were true. Of course, what a "positive" mutation is is probably more complicated than you are aware of, but that's a discussion for another time.

Simply because an ‘error’ will not make a complex system better, it is more likely to make it worse.

Those things that would make it worse are generally almost immediately discarded, leaving only those things that are neutral and/or beneficial.

There are many more questions I would like to ask but this post is uncomfortably long such as about DNA, RNA and the formation of an enzyme useful to life, known as Cytochrome-C.

Ok. Isn't it interesting how Cyt-C is in nearly all life, and yet the variations of it match up almost exactly to the same tree of life we can build from, say, the fossil record? That is, the creatures who have the most in common with us in their verision of Cyt-C are those that are most closely related to us in terms of evolutionary ancestry.
 
So you can't fathom the idea of natural and gradual change adapting organisms to their environments.

But you can fathom the idea of a magical intelligent creator that made everything "perectly" as it is today throughout many, many years.

?

Umm... I believe in evolution dude. What are you going on about? I just don't understand the evolution process. I was wondering how critters gradually evolve to live in something like an ocean enviroment. I wouldn't have thought just living in contact with water would grow them the tools they need to live in it best.

I was asking for answers, not instigating conflict.
 
In a certain way, it IS the contact with the water that does, in the sense that living near the water presents different challenges for survival, and different opportunities for new changes to gain the upper hand by proving themselves useful in dealing with it. Living in the water a lot more than your hairy ancestors might well make it better for those that have shorter and shorter and thinner hair to reduce drag and decrease the amount of time it takes to dry off.
 
All of science is theory tested by experiment. If you can't teach something because it is a "theory" then you might as well throw out math and science altogether and teach literature and the arts exclusively.
What a wonderful idea.
 
What should really be debating is the origin of all that is, will be, and was. And how the origin is a possibility by itself

For, in fact, evolution is indebatable unless you take the choice of the denial.
 
PLay the "game of life".

Watch things "evolve".

Its a set of mathamatical rules, that makes things start to take shape, then evolve, destroy other things etc.

There only simple rules too. yet complex stuff is made.
 
I just don't understand the evolution process. I was wondering how critters gradually evolve to live in something like an ocean enviroment.
The way I see it, evolution is a completely genetic phenomenon. If I spent my life running barefoot in jungles, my son's skin would not automaticaly grow tougher. But over the course of millenia, as chromosomes would couple in countless ways, the combinations that would produce tough skin would have an inherent advantage, and this population would eventually outnumber the others.

As for how the first cell started, does no one understand probability? Consider the amount of time for which the earth has existed - it's inevitable that eventually life would begin on a planet with such favourable conditions. Cell-like structures may have been produced many times by chemical interactions, until one or more developed the trait of reproduction.

Another popular argument for creationism is why everything turned out so perfectly on earth. Well, probability says there is a real chance of life developing somewhere in the universe - and earth was it.
 
I know you're all joking, but what you've got, you've got, and evolution won't change it. It only happens to populations over time: the individuals are stuck with the genetic code they are born with. Mostly the only thing you are going to get out of any subsequent genetic mutations in your body is cancer.
 
I know you're all joking, but what you've got, you've got, and evolution won't change it. It only happens to populations over time: the individuals are stuck with the genetic code they are born with. Mostly the only thing you are going to get out of any subsequent genetic mutations in your body is cancer.

To add to that, a fun trivia: on avarage every sperm cell has 1.6 mutations in its genome.
 
I know you're all joking, but what you've got, you've got, and evolution won't change it. It only happens to populations over time: the individuals are stuck with the genetic code they are born with. Mostly the only thing you are going to get out of any subsequent genetic mutations in your body is cancer.

Yeah it was a joke not based on the facts.
 
Seriously, where did all the guys go that were asking questions? No response?
 
Seriously, where did all the guys go that were asking questions? No response?

They're crouched in a corner crying because you shattered their entire belief system.
 
Seriously, where did all the guys go that were asking questions? No response?

It seems that Apos finally silenced the zealots ... truely a miracle, indeed ! :E
 
Oh my, just found the best picture ever.

3yea5x3.gif
 
TO ALL NON-BELIEVERS..Whos to say that god didnt create us to evolve? Isn't it more comforting to believe and have hope for the afterlife, then to just not bother or search ways of proving god to b fake? If ur sooo sure that there is no god, y bother wasting wats left of ur life w/this sh!t or to prove a theory wrong instead of doing something better w/itOr say...giving religion a chance and yes i know ur comeback will b something about reading the bible being a waste right? Well just think about it and think about wat makes ppl happier to believe. o and does trying to prove ppl wrong make u feel better about urselves. Its wrong to make fun of any1s belief(ex.being a christian i dont make fun of say buhddism) all of u none believers have ur own oppoinion and i accept that, but dont go trying to change any1 elses opinion or make fun of them, just try to get along. Whoever agrees PLZ PM me..If not dont bother telling me how I'm "wrong"(PS F@#K U NOFX FOR BOOING UNDEROATH OF STAGE B.CUZ THEY ARE CHRISTIAN!!!)
 
This just in: the Bible is a horrible book to learn English from.

Learn some ****ing English. Or don't and give the science of cryptography something to do. But I'm not reading that shit.
 
Clever remark there indeed.well not really... I honestly dont care wat u think of me or whether or not i use proper english, and in fact the bible has the oldest most proper english so even for that just being a joke I still think u should get ur facts straight. But, really I am not trying to start something here I was just giving u all my opinion.:p
 
The Bible is not the oldest most proper english work. I don't know if you know or anything, but it wasn't originally written in English. It wasn't translated into English until the 1100's :rolleyes:.
 
Clever remark there indeed.well not really... I honestly dont care wat u think of me or whether or not i use proper english, and in fact the bible has the oldest most proper english so even for that just being a joke I still think u should get ur facts straight. But, really I am not trying to start something here I was just giving u all my opinion.:p

and you are the premier example of proper english.
 
no I said that meaning that version. thanks for the info though!! I always thought it was between the 1000-1050's :) U know wat I mean...actual english as in back then without slang and such. But thnx again for correcting me(i probably looked real dumb with that misleading comment)
 
TO ALL NON-BELIEVERS..Whos to say that god didnt create us to evolve? Isn't it more comforting to believe and have hope for the afterlife, then to just not bother or search ways of proving god to b fake?

No.

Shit hole christians are ****ing up our rights. That's why people try to prove that there is no god.

Anybody else notice this? That the only reason people rag on christians so much, is because they ruin everybody elses life with their religious bullcrap?

People don't rag on Budhists, and Budhists also believe in entities higher than humans, but they don't ruin everything for everybody else. They don't try to spread their religion to people who don't want it, or to people who don't want it interphering with their lifestyle.
 
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