PC gaming

[Krynn72]

Its now thanks to titles such as Skyrim, Arkham Asylum 2 and Battefield 3 that the gaming industry is starting to revitalize itself but I'm afraid it will never be as good as it was, when we were getting titles like Half-Life 2, Battlefield 2, Dawn of War and Company of Heroes etc. Those days are long gone..

No they ****ing aren't. Jesus Christ, do you just want to be a victim or something?

Civ 5, the latest of the Total War series, Red Orchestra 2, ARMA 2, The Witcher 1 and 2, Metro 2033, the Stalker series, all these games have come out for PC only (as far as I'm aware?) since "those days". Frankly I'd take these days over those days any day.

 

[Shift]

No they ****ing aren't. Jesus Christ, do you just want to be a victim or something?

Civ 5, the latest of the Total War series, Red Orchestra 2, ARMA 2, The Witcher 1 and 2, Metro 2033, the Stalker series, all these games have come out for PC only (as far as I'm aware?) since "those days". Frankly I'd take these days over those days any day.

Name me just ONE game in the past two years that has been as good as Half-Life 2's single player and one game that has been as good as say Battlefield 2's multiplayer and you might have a basis for argument. Nothing comes close from what I've seen. And at first I thought it was just a bad year or something but its just got steadily worse as time as gone on, I actually lost all interest in gaming, its only this year with the games coming out that my interest has been rekindled somewhat.

Granted the Civ games are excellent, but Total War? Rome: Total War was by MILESSSS the best game in the series, I had absolutely no fancy for the titles after it, Empire: Total War was an abomination. The Witcher was good but I could never get into it and the same goes for the Stalker series (which, lets be honest, wasn't the most polished of titles) and besides, Shadow of Chernobyl came out 4 years ago.

 

[knut]

subjective opinions: the thread

 

[Krynn72]

ARMA 2 is the best multiplayer game I've ever played, ever, so there's that for you. As far as SP thats been as good as hl2, the one that come pretty damn close is Metro 2033. I don't play many shooters though, so there's probably more/better examples. If you ignore shooters, and just focus on SP games in general, then HL2 has been outclassed by quite a few games since, some of which were even made by Valve.

I agreed with you about Rome up until Shogun 2 came out. But even still, every single iteration has been an excellent game. Frankly, I'm getting the feeling that your nostalgia goggles and personal taste are the reasons you're presuming that PC gaming is dying.

 

[Vegeta897]

But I'm sure anyone who denies Arma 2 being good is probably like "I PLAYED THE SP DEMO AND IT RAN LIKE SHIT AND THE RADIO VOICES ARE SO BAD"


Maybe we really should get a bunch of half-way interested people to download Arma 2: Free and play a game with them.

The guys who made those zombie missions we had fun on even made an A2:Free compatible version of it.

 

[Lobster]

My only issue with ARMA is finding people to play with, I once spent two days talking a friend into buying it, only to find the following day, he had purchased Dragon Rising believing it to be more his style..

I proceeded to walk to the bottom of my garden and ponder the human race for a while.. it was a difficult time.. a difficult time indeed. :frown:

 

[Vegeta897]

Oh lord that's awful. Why don't you play with us?

 

[Wanted Bob]

I think I've tried to get into ARMA about 5 times now. Just something about it doesnt make it a lot of fun for me, though if I had to put my finger on one thing it would be playing by myself. Even if I did try to play with other people, I have a feeling I would just piss people off for not "playing properly".

Also, Civ 3 > Civ 5 > Civ 4 IMO.

 

[Krynn72]

I think I've tried to get into ARMA about 5 times now. Just something about it doesnt make it a lot of fun for me, though if I had to put my finger on one thing it would be playing by myself. Even if I did try to play with other people, I have a feeling I would just piss people off for not "playing properly".

I didn't like the game, at all until I started playing with Raz, Vegeta, and Viper. In fact, when Vegeta first asked me I told him I didn't like the game. Frankly, the singleplayer is a little too broken and way too unrewarding to be worth it. But like i said, playing it multiplayer with friends is probably some of the best gaming I've had in this decade. You really should hook up with us sometime and see how awesome it can be, and nobody is going to get angry with you for playing wrong, because the only way you can do that is just be being a dicknose in general, like intentionally trashing all the helocopters or something.

 

[Acepilotf14]

When are you ****s going to play.

 

[Vegeta897]

What Krynn said. Arma isn't just about having realistic features like no crosshairs, stamina system, realistic recoil, or realistic weapon ballistics. It offers a cooperative teamwork experience that no other FPS comes close to matching. If you think running around in a BF2 squad was fun, then you'll love this, that's all there is to it.

And like Krynn said you'd have to intentionally be trying to grief for us to yell at you. As squad leader I may give you some advice like maintaining spacing or if you choose a really inappropriate weapon, but really these are little things that you pick up quickly as you play.

We just got Lobster on the roster so that's another +1 to the hl2.net arma team. And I guess Ace is ready too, so let's get a game going soon!

 

[Acepilotf14]

What's a decent gun to use? All I really know how to use is the M4 they throw at you in the tutorial, plus I screwed around with a few snipers.

 

[Krynn72]

My go-to gun for run of the mill missions is the M14 with RCO scope, or Mk17 with whatever kind of scope I think will be useful. Most of us only care about the gun having 7.62 calibre rounds, since they'll do more damage at the ranges we tend engage at. With an M4, unless you get lucky hits, you may have to hit someone 3-5 times to actually kill them. 7.62s do it in one or two usually.

A lot of times we'll coordinate equipment too, like Viper may take a sniper, I might take a machine gun, so we have all the bases covered. Also, a lot of the missions we play have pre-determined loadouts, so then its obviously a non-issue.

 

[Vegeta897]

That's really an impossible question to answer since all missions have different selections, and different appropriate choices.

Here are some general concepts though (this is all for american side weapons):

-Heavier calibre means a lot in this game. 5.56 ammo that the M4s or MK16s carry are pretty ineffective beyond 500 meters, especially if you don't have a scope. MK17s and M14s carry 7.62 nato, (an easy way to tell a gun uses 7.62 is if its mag holds 20 rounds, also all weapons say what calibre they are in the gear menu) and this round can reach far distance and down an enemy in one shot. They're so accurate that you can use an unzoomed dot sight or iron sights to take out an enemy even 400 meters away.

-Speaking of scopes and sights, bear in mind what kind of engagement ranges we'll be encountering in the mission. If we're roaming the hills of Takistan, bring something with a scope and/or high calibre. If we're attacking a town, you don't want something with a big ass scope on it, though some scopes have iron sights on the top that you can switch to.

-Machinegunners are powerful roles. They come in 2 flavors, 5.56 like the M249, and 7.62 like the M60 or M240. Both are effective at long range because you can spray easily (with your weapon rested or bipod deployed!) and if you get an M240 with an Elcan scope you're extremely effective at giving support. However, the large calibre machineguns are very hard to handle in close quarters, so again you want to think about what battle environments we may be fighting in.

-If it's a night mission where you need to use NVG, remember that you can't look through a scope with your nightvision. This means you'll need a weapon with an NVG scope or just go with nonscope sights. We also may be using silenced weapons if possible.

-Having someone be a sniper is kind of rare when we play, but if you ever use one make sure you watched Raz's videos so you know how to rangefind and zero the scope.

That's about all I can think of for now, but you can simply ask me for a recommendation when we are playing.

 

[Shift]

Frankly, I'm getting the feeling that your nostalgia goggles and personal taste are the reasons you're presuming that PC gaming is dying.

You're probably right!

And yes I purchased ARMA 2 ages ago but also really couldn't get into it, but I knew it was potentially a great game. I mean Operation Flashpoint with its realism and tactical gameplay is one of the best games I've ever played so naturally I want to play this. If multiplayer is the answer I will try and hook up with you guys at some point and give it a try, you wouldn't have to worry about me tactically, that's how I roll When do you guys usually play?

 

[Vegeta897]

Hit me up on Steam so I can invite you into our Arma group.

We just scheduled a game for 7pm EST tomorrow (saturday) which is Midnight sunday for you.

We also will probably schedule another for next saturday.

Also I hope you have Combined Operations. And if you don't have ACE mod it is urgent that you ask me about it.

 

[morgs]

What's a decent gun to use?

M110 is the only gun.

 

[Krynn72]

-Machinegunners are powerful roles. They come in 2 flavors, 5.56 like the M249, and 7.62 like the M60 or M240. Both are effective at long range because you can spray easily (with your weapon rested or bipod deployed!) and if you get an M240 with an Elcan scope you're extremely effective at giving support. However, the large calibre machineguns are very hard to handle in close quarters, so again you want to think about what battle environments we may be fighting in.

Another thing to bear in mind with MGs, especially the 7.62 calibre ones, is that they weigh A LOT. With Ace mod this matters, because if you take a Mk.48 and a full suppliment of ammo boxes, you'll be weighing probably 70kg+ and your character will start blacking out after like 45 seconds of running. Usually its best to take only a few boxes, and then some other light weight stuff like smoke/frag grenades, and ask someone else to carry a box or two of spare ammo.

 

[Shift]

Hit me up on Steam so I can invite you into our Arma group.

We just scheduled a game for 7pm EST tomorrow (saturday) which is Midnight sunday for you.

We also will probably schedule another for next saturday.

Also I hope you have Combined Operations. And if you don't have ACE mod it is urgent that you ask me about it.

Saturdays are better for me so I'll pop in on some occasions (I'll try tonight but can't promise anything), and I have Combined Ops but I will see to getting the ACE mod during the day. All your caliber weapon talks gets me excited Also do you have a link to these ARMA videos you made?

 

[Krynn72]

Saturdays are better for me so I'll pop in on some occasions (I'll try tonight but can't promise anything), and I have Combined Ops but I will see to getting the ACE mod during the day. All your caliber weapon talks gets me excited Also do you have a link to these ARMA videos you made?

Raz made the videos, and somewhere in the thread Vegeta made a tutorial to install set up Ace. Its also our go-to ARMA 2 thread we were using so we didn't have to hijack all sorts of threads :|
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?175132-HL2.net-Arma-2-Ace-2-Information-Videos

 

[Vegeta897]

Saturdays are better for me so I'll pop in on some occasions (I'll try tonight but can't promise anything), and I have Combined Ops but I will see to getting the ACE mod during the day. All your caliber weapon talks gets me excited Also do you have a link to these ARMA videos you made?

First post in this thread http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?175132-HL2.net-Arma-2-Ace-2-Information-Videos

Also in this thread is my guide to installing ACE: http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?175132-HL2.net-Arma-2-Ace-2-Information-Videos/page26

 

[Eejit]

I dunno ARMA always just looked to me like a game for yankee gun-wanks rather than seeming to be genuinely fun.

 

[Vegeta897]

Did you read anything we said?

People like you really piss me off. Do you really think everyone that plays with us is a 'yankee gun-wank'? Do you really think the only thing the game has to offer is realistic weapon performance?

 

[Eejit]

Oh I read it all. A couple of sentences about the teamwork being great then 1000 words about guns. 'nuff said.

 

[Vegeta897]

1000 words about how to choose an appropriate weapon for a mission. Because Ace asked.

How is choosing the right gun for the job 'yankee gun-wank'? Do you pick weapons at random in other games?

If you want to pull your head out of your ass and maybe watch some of our community gameplay videos, then you can see an example of why the gameplay is exciting and unique, and heavily teamwork based.


Here's a simple mission where we have to assault a small camp and destroy artillery. We move up as a team and scout the camp, counting enemies and assets, before attacking.

None of the videos we have uploaded really show the full effect of how fun this game is.


The game is slower paced than other FPS games, and a lot more difficult. Both of these factors create an incredibly rewarding experience, and give intense immersion. Whether it's the satisfaction of watching over a target and then taking it out with deadly precision, or getting ambushed by enemies you weren't even aware of and forcing you to adapt to the situation, the game makes other shooters feel like kids games.

 

[Eejit]

Yeah, that video was like watching paint dry.

 

[Vegeta897]

Here, you might find this more enjoyable

It makes sounds when you hit the buttons and stuff, so it's sure to keep your short attention span engaged.

 

[Eejit]

Good false dichotomy. Derp. Not everyone is into slowly pleasuring themselves with a .357 round while staring at a lifeless landscape, it doesn't mean they have ADD.

 

[Vegeta897]

Not everyone is into slowly pleasuring themselves with a .357 round

You have yet to explain the relevance of this obsession you have with claiming arma 2 is for gun nuts.

The issue you have with the game has been made clear. It has nothing to do with how many guns are in the game or how realistic they are. You can't handle an FPS game that isn't paced like an action movie and that's just something we'll all have to deal with as people like you ensure brainless twitch-aim deathmatch FPS games continue being successful and take over the mainstream market.

 

[Eejit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMb0ZP6hnkc
Replace MW3 with arma2?


You can easily have too much realism in games. Most of real life is boring. You don't want sports games which feature the hours of training in the gym and on the field. You don't want medieval RPGs to contain hours of weapons drill. In the same way modern combat is long periods of nothing followed by insta-kills or insta-death.

I enjoy slow-paced games - I played EVE for years for chrissake. The difference is that the long slow build-up to conflict in EVE has a pay-off generally lasting more than a couple of seconds (up to several hours at a stretch with fleet engagements), with repercussions lasting beyond the final few minutes of the 'current round' you have in FPS shooters.
Sneaking around for 20 minutes only to click on an enemy once to kill him and immediately being clicked at and killed by his pal just isn't enough of a result. This gameplay appeals to those who value the realism of the weapon mechanics which cause it... gun-wanks.

 

[Wanted Bob]

Hmm, well I figure I got nothing to lose by giving the free version a try, though I wouldn't want to force you guys to play a crappier version. Maybe if there are a bunch of others who want to try as well. I'm pretty sure 7 pm EST could work for me, but no promises.

EDIT: Also, I've seen some ARMA missions that while impractical for most people to play, depict some pretty awesome large scale battles. Case in point:

 

[Acepilotf14]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMb0ZP6hnkc
Replace MW3 with arma2?


You can easily have too much realism in games. Most of real life is boring. You don't want sports games which feature the hours of training in the gym and on the field. You don't want medieval RPGs to contain hours of weapons drill. In the same way modern combat is long periods of nothing followed by insta-kills or insta-death.

I enjoy slow-paced games - I played EVE for years for chrissake. The difference is that the long slow build-up to conflict in EVE has a pay-off generally lasting more than a couple of seconds (up to several hours at a stretch with fleet engagements), with repercussions lasting beyond the final few minutes of the 'current round' you have in FPS shooters.
Sneaking around for 20 minutes only to click on an enemy once to kill him and immediately being clicked at and killed by his pal just isn't enough of a result. This gameplay appeals to those who value the realism of the weapon mechanics which cause it... gun-wanks.

You're retarded.

If you don't like sims don't whine about them. There are actually people who buy Railworks, y'know.

 

[Eejit]

Derp.
Sims like Railworks are still very different types of gameplay from arma by the standards I described - slow paced and realistic but again the results are lasting. To continue the earlier comparison they're like PvE in EVE. Rather than slow for the majority then some instagibs a couple of times per round with no long-term outcome.

And actually criticism isn't quite the same as whining, but I guess it's more comforting to believe that people who criticise something you like are too many babies on team.

 

[Bad^Hat]

The difference is that the long slow build-up to conflict in EVE has a pay-off generally lasting more than a couple of seconds (up to several hours at a stretch with fleet engagements), with repercussions lasting beyond the final few minutes of the 'current round' you have in FPS shooters.
Sneaking around for 20 minutes only to click on an enemy once to kill him and immediately being clicked at and killed by his pal just isn't enough of a result. This gameplay appeals to those who value the realism of the weapon mechanics which cause it... gun-wanks.

Not really. There are lulls in the gameplay, for sure, but the whole "run for hours and get shot" thing is pretty much a running joke. Engagements can stretch on for ages with only brief reprieves, and even when you're not directly engaged with someone, the threat of an enemy lingering in the area will keep you on edge. The thing is that a lot of it depends on the mission you're playing, and since we play custom missions it can occasionally be a roll of the dice between a well-paced and balanced mission and one that poses too great a challenge or none at all. A big sticking point for me is whether and how a mission supports revives - sometimes it's as simple as using the context menu over a fallen comrade, other times you have to play doctor for a while with bandages and morphine, and some don't include them at all. Dying early on one of the latter missions is pretty disappointing, I'll be honest, but it does add to the tension and make you play more carefully.

To be sure though, the game is absolutely about realism. You don't have to be a gun nut or a military enthusiast to "get" it, but it has a certain feel and pace to it that doesn't appeal to everyone. I didn't think it'd appeal to me after trying it alone, but I liked the idea of it and decided to take a chance. Personally I don't go in big time for the realism stuff, but the depth and openness is unrivalled by any other shooter and it's one of the best cooperative games I've ever played. You won't find the same sense of teamwork and coordination anywhere else, at least not that I've found.

Well maybe WoW raids but **** that noise.

 

[Krynn72]

The argument that ARMA 2 is for yankee gun-wanks is quite idiotic. The discussion we had on here was about what weapons to take depending on the circumstance, because of the gameplay effects the weapons have. Had we been talking about making decisions over what vehicle to take, would that be herp-derp-merika car wanking? If we talked about which classes to fill out in TF2 in order to compliment other players on our team, what would that be? Heres a fun fact Eejit, I hardly know anything about guns, I don't own any guns, I have never shot any guns in real life, and outside of games and reading military history, I don't ever think about guns. Additionally, the MAJORITY of our group aren't even Americans. You made a retarded and baseless accusation, demonstrating that you know nothing about the game and nothing about us, and I don't really understand why you even made the remark considering that you know nothing about the subject. You're Eejit, you're smarter than this.

 

[Eejit]

Chill, I was mostly overegging the hyperbole for Mr Overly Defensive. I don't see how that's unusual behaviour.
Arma2 is not necessarily a game solely for gun-nuts, even if it is a gun-wankery kind of a game. I maintain that gameplay resulting from realistic firearms and damage systems tends towards too much insta-killing after often slow build-up. Gun-fetishists are more forgiving of this. Also sounds like the devs are gun-wanks.
And with TF2 yeah that would be total hat-wank.

 

[Vegeta897]

Chill, I was mostly overegging the hyperbole for Mr Overly Defensive. I don't see how that's unusual behaviour.
Arma2 is not necessarily a game solely for gun-nuts, even if it is a gun-wankery kind of a game. I maintain that gameplay resulting from realistic firearms and damage systems tends towards too much insta-killing after often slow build-up. Gun-fetishists are more forgiving of this.

It really sounds like you barely have any experience with the game, if any. Just because a few shots can kill you doesn't mean every battle lasts for 5 seconds. Getting shot at doesn't mean you're getting hit. A lot of the excitement comes from the shock of being fired at out of nowhere, forcing you to hit the dirt and assess the situation. Where's he firing from? What distance? Where is my squad? Are any of them hit? The game gives suppression effects to simulate how you would feel if you were under fire in real life. Your breathing heightens, your aim becomes a little shaky. Are we in a good position to fire back? Are there too many of them? Should we pop smoke and fall back to that compound for a stronger base of fire? Is that a tank I hear?

Also sounds like the devs are gun-wanks.

????
The devs want to make a game that gives you tactical freedom on both a small and large scale. Weapon realism is second hand to the core gameplay that makes the game unique. BIS doesn't really care about how accurate their in-game guns perform compared to their real life versions, so long as they behave like guns with simulated ballistics, which has no effect on the pace of the game.

The reason the guns are deadly is so you are more careful and think about what the **** you are doing. It's to discourage mindless run and gunning. No other game has come close to giving me such a feeling of suppression when I've been under fire. Hearing the sonic cracks and bullets whizzing past me and hitting the ground a few feet away from me, knowing that a single one of them hitting my head means it's all over. And unlike other games I can't just pop up and spray at the enemy. I may not even know where he is, and my aim might be pretty bad due to the suppression or if I took a hit before getting into cover.

 

[Viperidae]

Gunwank? No. Militarywank? Yes... it's a sim. People do ridiculously mundane things in sims because they get off on it. How is this an argument against Arma?

You do realise we experience about only about half of the features in the game? That in bigger missions vehicles become way more important than squads? That there are game types that involve capturing an ENTIRE 20x20km island with 63 teammates? Payoff...?

Also, shouldn't we be talking more about how PC Gaming Is Still Awesome? And how Shift Is Wrong?

 

[Shift]

I have since retracted my statement, as Krynn pointed out, it was based on my personal tastes.

 

[Krynn72]

Arma2 is not necessarily a game solely for gun-nuts, even if it is a gun-wankery kind of a game.

Another baseless claim. The game isn't even about guns any more than COD is. It has more gameplay features that makes choosing weapons more in-depth, but its a tiny part of the game. You have no clue what you're talking about my friend.

I maintain that gameplay resulting from realistic firearms and damage systems tends towards too much insta-killing after often slow build-up. Gun-fetishists are more forgiving of this.

Again, you make accusations based on nothing but what I can only assume to be a brief impression made by misinterpreting posts and videos. For one, insta-kills are rare, rare, rare. In almost all engagements we survive long enough to locate and fire at an enemy before taking hits, and when we do take a hit, we can usually revive or heal each other. The only time insta-death ever really occurs is when we get fired on by anti-aircraft flak guns we didn't notice, and then thats entirely our fault for not surveying the area better.

I also take issue with your matter-of-fact type of claim that slow build up and fast resolution is something that need to be "forgiven." There are countless hobbies and interests that people have with the same structure, and it clearly entertains. Once again in this thread someone is making sweeping claims based on personal preference. You like short bouts of action with instant gratification? Cool. I find it un-immersive and boring. I like a slow, tense build up to sudden action and then prolonged action leading to a resolution. You find it boring? Cool. Just don't go around making up bullshit to try and make the game and the people who play it look bad, because then you're just being an asshole. Not a troll, an asshole.