Problem(s) with WATER

[boodie7]

I have this issue before but ignored it because I could work around the problem with the surrounding textures. However I cannot work around this and it seems there is more than one problem I am having with water. I figure one (of the many) thing I'm doing wrong is not rotating the textuers when I rotate the adjoining area. However it seems the lighting from both above and below, as well as the reflections is completely different. In one place it looks fine, but in others it's completely off. Underwater I can see through my walls, which I thought was due to me overlaping the water and wall textures (er no_draw and wall). Anway, as you can tell I suck at explaining the problem so I included a few pics. Two of them show the absolute division on the surface of reflection (clear and then very dark translucent) and the other is a wide shot of all the "see through" walls, which I assume is due to me pulling the water off the walls. How would I seemlessly sew the water with the walls, especially when it goes off in three directions and at different elevations (underground, arched tunnel)?
So here are the pics:

*FYI* The lighting/contrast and size of these images is completely off of what they actually look like. I had to brighten and bring them down from 14x9 to make the file small enough. I've noticed other posts adding pics to the body, rather than as attachments. How can I do that too ? Thanks

 

[Raeven0]

Buildcubemaps?

Compile log?

 

[boodie7]

K here's the latest compile log. . .I think:


materialPath: c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\boodie7\counter-strike source\cstrike\materials
Loading C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\boodie7\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\cathedral.vmf
fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10
FindPortalSide: Couldn't find a good match for which brush to assign to a portal near (0.0, -63.4, 263.9)
Leaf 0 contents:
Leaf 1 contents: CONTENTS_SOLID
viscontents (node 0 contents ^ node 1 contents): CONTENTS_SOLID
This means that none of the brushes in leaf 0 or 1 that touches the portal has CONTENTS_SOLID
Check for a huge brush enclosing the coordinates above that has contents CONTENTS_SOLID
Candidate brush IDs: Brush 183135:


FindPortalSide: Couldn't find a good match for which brush to assign to a portal near (-30.0, -68.6, 274.0)
Leaf 0 contents:
Leaf 1 contents: CONTENTS_SOLID
viscontents (node 0 contents ^ node 1 contents): CONTENTS_SOLID
This means that none of the brushes in leaf 0 or 1 that touches the portal has CONTENTS_SOLID
Check for a huge brush enclosing the coordinates above that has contents CONTENTS_SOLID
Candidate brush IDs: Brush 183135:

Processing areas... done (0)
Building Faces... done (0)
Chop Details... done (0)
Find Visible Detail Sides...
Merged 194 detail faces... done (0)
Merging details... done (0)
FixTjuncs...
PruneNodes...
WriteBSP...
done (4)
writing C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\boodie7\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\cathedral.prt... done (0)
Creating default cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox sky_wasteland02...
Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.
Finding displacement neighbors...
Finding lightmap sample positions...
Displacement Alpha : 0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10
Building Physics collision data...
done (3) (1811324 bytes)
Emitting linux collision data (use -nolinuxdata to disable).
Building Physics collision data...
done (3) (1811324 bytes)
Placing detail props : 0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10
Writing C:\Program Files\Valve\Steam\SteamApps\boodie7\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\cathedral.bsp
30 seconds elapsed



2 threads
reading c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\boodie7\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\cathedral.bsp
reading c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\boodie7\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\cathedral.prt
3333 portalclusters
12950 numportals
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
WARNING: Cluster portals saw into cluster
Optimized: 667178 visible clusters (0.00%)
Total clusters visible: 8921784
Average clusters visible: 2676
Building PAS...
Average clusters audible: 3333
visdatasize:2711206 compressed from 2826384
writing c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\boodie7\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\cathedral.bsp
1 minute, 5 seconds elapsed



[Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
[1 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']

Loading c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\boodie7\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\cathedral.bsp
21943 faces
49 degenerate faces
498898 square feet [71841424.00 square inches]
0 displacements
0 square feet [0.00 square inches]
21894 patches before subdivision
zero area child patch
61808 patches after subdivision
118 direct lights
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 transfers 2210505, max 194
transfer lists: 16.9 megs
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #1 added RGB(211182, 181076, 149471)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #2 added RGB(30076, 24958, 18785)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #3 added RGB(6332, 5040, 3507)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #4 added RGB(1368, 1045, 677)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #5 added RGB(364, 264, 162)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #6 added RGB(102, 70, 41)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #7 added RGB(35, 23, 13)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #8 added RGB(12, 8, 4)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #9 added RGB(5, 3, 2)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #10 added RGB(2, 1, 1)
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 Bounce #11 added RGB(1, 1, 0)
Build Patch/Sample Hash Table(s)..... Done<0.0826 sec>
0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10 FinalLightFace Done
Ready to Finish
0 of 0 (0% of) surface lights went in leaf ambient cubes.
ComputePerLeafAmbientLighting: 0 . . . 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . . 8 . . . 9 . . . 10

Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 25/1024 1200/49152 ( 2.4%)
brushes 4320/8192 51840/98304 (52.7%)
brushsides 45529/65536 364232/524288 (69.5%)
planes 34390/65536 687800/1310720 (52.5%)
vertexes 36968/65536 443616/786432 (56.4%)
nodes 11834/65536 378688/2097152 (18.1%)
texinfos 3509/12288 252648/884736 (28.6%)
texdata 106/2048 3392/65536 ( 5.2%)
dispinfos 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_verts 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_tris 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_lmsamples 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
faces 21943/65536 1228808/3670016 (33.5%)
origfaces 16540/65536 926240/3670016 (25.2%)
leaves 11860/65536 664160/3670016 (18.1%)
leaffaces 27796/65536 55592/131072 (42.4%)
leafbrushes 10741/65536 21482/131072 (16.4%)
surfedges 177496/512000 709984/2048000 (34.7%)
edges 96521/256000 386084/1024000 (37.7%)
worldlights 118/8192 10384/720896 ( 1.4%)
waterstrips 1162/32768 11620/327680 ( 3.5%)
waterverts 0/65536 0/786432 ( 0.0%)
waterindices 24234/65536 48468/131072 (37.0%)
cubemapsamples 84/1024 1344/16384 ( 8.2%)
overlays 0/512 0/180224 ( 0.0%)
lightdata [variable] 2448712/0 ( 0.0%)
visdata [variable] 2711206/16777216 (16.2%)
entdata [variable] 33262/393216 ( 8.5%)
occluders 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder polygons 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder vert ind 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
detail props [variable] 1/12 ( 8.3%)
static props [variable] 1/4856 ( 0.0%)
pakfile [variable] 591304/0 ( 0.0%)

Win32 Specific Data:
physics [variable] 1811324/4194304 (43.2%)
==== Total Win32 BSP file data space used: 13843392 bytes ====

Linux Specific Data:
physicssurface [variable] 1811324/6291456 (28.8%)
==== Total Linux BSP file data space used: 13843392 bytes ====

Total triangle count: 63673
Writing c:\program files\valve\steam\steamapps\boodie7\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\cathedral.bsp
31 minutes, 8 seconds elapsed


Would building cubemaps be something I do from the console at runtime?
Thanks for your assistance.

 

[Raeven0]

Your map is confusing BSP and VIS, which might or might not cause problems with your water. Might look into optimization.

Yeah, buildcubemaps is done through the buildcubemaps command in the console. It should cause your water faces to reflect properly and look good with each other, even if you've rotated the water texture.

Water is supposed to be considered different from normal brushes by the BSP program. Under no circumstances should water that intersects geometry nullify the geometry. Looking at your walls, it strikes me that I can see the entire map, which should not happen in any case--what texture is on the walls, on the water, and on the sides of the water? Does the problem go away if you delete the water?

You shouldn't be able to have expensive water of different elevations in the same PVS, or even the same body of water. To do that you'd need to use a forced-cheap water texture.

 

[boodie7]

I will be optimizing, but I usually save that until the map is nearing the end, mostly because I end up making subtle changes for awhile along with detailing.
My water is completely no-draw except for the very top-side, which is the pretty_water texture. I will go in now and try building cubemaps. Maybe I should make the entire texture water, then go back and apply the no_draw to all sides except the top? The texture on the walls is just some basic brick texture I use throught the map, but I've seen this behavior everytime I use water on the same level as normal textures (sorry I don't know the actuall name, but I think it is a cbble texture). I have never built cubemaps before so I'm placing alot of stock in that working

Thanks for your advice. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[boodie7]

Wel I fixed the seeing through the other textures problem and the change in elevation; I just add a solid texture step up with a ladder. However, now all the water is dark and murky looking. You can see the actuall look of it in my initial set of pics, where the shots I took showed a clear division of murky to clear refraction. Does this have anything to do with how the env_cubemaps are placed? . .or maybe the overall lighting in these tunnels or the maps light_env? I cannot figure out why sometimes and only in some places the water "behaves", but other times it looks completely dark. I also have some "tidal pools" that are completely diconnected from the other tunnel/water system and they aahev remained completely murky/dark. I ahve continued to keep the entire blocks all no_draw with only the prettywater brush on the very top side. Why is the water looking like this. Please refer to the pics at the beginning of this thread for a better illustration of the "murky" to "clear" visuals.