prometheus (2012, ridley scott)

[knut]

Directors are not responsible for hiring scriptwriters.

However, according to the ever correct Wikipedia, Scott was fairly involved with Prometheus' story.

So maybe the lesson is, one should avoid movies where he has that much control?

so... avoid alien? because he had the utmost control over that film. he didn't write the narrative or screenplay, but he made damn sure that what he did make was appropriate to the material. nothing in prometheus is appropriate - it has no guiding bearing on where or what it wants to be, and it comes off as a an absolute mess of a film.

just to clarify though, i do believe the majority of reviews - and i say this myself, too, and i believe a lot of pepple in this thread have said similar things - are praising prometheus for what is obviously scott's own doing: the visuals, design, atmosphere, ''vision'', cinematography... it's all dynamite ridley scott.

 

[Remus]

It is entirely possible to "loose your touch". Example, Cameron. The Terminator, he did both writing and directing, and the result was gold. Avatar, he again did both writing and directing, and the result was in my opinion garbage.

I think the same is true with Ridley Scott.

 

[morgs]

I really enjoyed it.

That's about it.

also, this is a really good analysis of the story, spoilers of course: http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html

 

[Omnomnick]

Shitty plot hole filled predictable film is shit, plot hole filled and predictable.

I sat through the whole film accurately predicting plot points way in advance, (Predicting deaths of major characters minutes in etc).

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Lol, Penny Arcade

Spoiler

 

[Sheepo]

Shitty plot hole filled predictable film is shit, plot hole filled and predictable.

I sat through the whole film accurately predicting plot points way in advance, (Predicting deaths of major characters minutes in etc).

Oh, you're that really cool guy that every one doesn't think is annoying as shit.

 

[Dynasty]

'It sucks because it was full of plot holes'

Err, actually, no it wasnt.

If you had seen all the alien films, it all makes sense. The film does something though that we aren't used to in films these days; it requires you to THINK and come up with your own logical conclusion(s).

The only questions I had at the end, were

Spoiler

Who created the engineers? And did the pile of engineer bodies those 2 guys found whilst left behind, which all had their chests burst open, suggest the alien had already evolved in another form? The squid/octopus only evolved because of the human DNA after they had sex and she became impregnated, which got out of her, grew, then impregnated the engineer which created an alien queen. It is therefore safe to assume that the queen that burst out would create the Alien we know it to be. However, the crashed ship has been confimed by Scott to be on a different planet to the one in Alien, so how a queen got on THAT planet is a mystery, though safe to assume that it arrived via another ship. However, the queen was assumedly created by the mixture of human DNA and engineer DNA, through the octopus thing which came out of Noomi's charatcer. So, what caused the engineer chest bursts initially? Were they running back to their ship to warn others? Does that explain them running in the holograms? What form of evolution were those aliens that burst out of the engineers chest in?

To me it just suggests the queen alien was created through human DNA mixed with that of the engineer's. But those engineers would have been dead years before any human came in contact with them surely? Although the cave paintings all suggest that they atleast returned once to 'Earth' after creating life at the start of the film. So maybe there's a link of previous human DNA in their blood somehow, so any engineers infected with the black liquid or any of those maggots that got infected and turn into the first face huggers, could potentially have caused a queen to be born. Or maybe the traditional alien foetus isnt the only step in the alien evolution to require bursting out of the chest. Hmm.

These questions, to me, arent plot holes, as how this all happens is explained. Just where it goes from here is unanswered. SCreams sequel, not plot holes.

.

And I'm sorry but if you dont

Spoiler

understand how the black liquid works by the end of the film

then frankly, you weren't watching.

As far as I was concerned, I walked away happy at the explanation of how Alien started.

 

[knut]

As far as I was concerned, I walked away happy at the explanation of how Alien started.

well, i'm genuinely curious as to how you have linked promethus and alien, considering that he biggest link to alien is the space jockey and it isn't even the same one. it's not the same planet. it's not the same ship. everything in this film is a separate event - an isolated expedition that has nothing to do with the nostromo.

i suppose that a similar fate might have been the downfall of the engineer(s) aboard the vessel on lv-426, but how can we be so sure considering that at the end of prometheus we see shaw and david leaving the planet aboard a ship that is far more likely to be the same ship in alien if just for the reason that it actually gets airbourne and the ship in prometheus does not. the ship in prometheus doesn't leave the planet, the planet which isn't lv-426, therefore it's nothing related to anything we see in alien. we've basically been fooled into thinking there was a direct link between the two because of the trailers: they showed iconic images and designs that were basically ripped right out from alien, but in fact had nothing to do with them whatsoever. the engineer in the chair? not the same. the ship rolling over to crash on it's side? different ship.

of course, it's speculative to presume that the ship shaw and david leave on might become the same abandoned derelict on lv-426, and lindelof and scott have both stated that a prometheus sequel will go even further from alien, so who knows where the **** they're gonna go with it.

this film was nothing to do with alien, it just overuses fan-service treatment to entice you into the universe that scott visioned some 30 years ago. nothing connects this film to alien. outside of being set in the same universe, it actually has absolutely **** all to do with alien. i am defiant in that.

 

[morgs]

Spoiler

I believe the facehugger ship in alien was probably carrying a bio weapon (The huggers) developed on LV-223, but the pilot and/or crew were infected in transit and put down on LV-426, sending out a warning signal in order to keep other SJ's away.

 

[knut]

right, but that's obvious enough from watching and finishing alien - crew find derelict, discover strange seated crew-member long dead, find cargo, discover cargo is deadly, 2 + 2 = 4, etc. at what point would you leave prometheus, of all films, and think ''ah, now alien makes sense''? it already did make sense, we just didn't see the events which happened - samon's ''the unnecessary shining of lights into dark corners'' analogy comes to mind here (can't remember his exact quote)

alien's disaster on board the original derelict made perfect sense to begin with, but it hasn't been explained in the same way that the events aboard the ship in prometheus are (sort of) explained when the crew start piecing things together. it doesn't need to be, but i don't know why watching prometheus would make it anymore apparent then it already was to begin with. i am presuming that the ship on lv-426 is shaw and davids, but if it's going to connect even less than prometheus has then i don't know what it's going to be. no one should: prometheus explains nothing, it intentionally leaves itself open for discussion because a sequel is likely inevitable.

 

[morgs]

I agree that Alien needs no explanation, in fact the mystery of the Jockey is (well, was I guess) one of the most creepy and interesting aspects of the film.

 

[Omnomnick]

'It sucks because it was full of plot holes'

Regardless of whether you want to try and explain any of the plot holes in the film, it was still as predictable as the sun rising in the morning. Like I said, I literally sat through the entire film with a couple of friends predicting, pretty accurately, what would happen next, who would die, in what order and who would be still alive at the end. Not to mention even really minor plot points which didn't really matter, they were still obvious as hell.

 

[Sheepo]

What plot holes exactly? I'd say the closest thing to a plothole was seeing David's action without a clear idea of his intent or motivation, and that's just leaving a character's action up to the audience's interpretation. Other than that, there are some not explicitly answered questions to some of the mysteries, and again, things can be inferred or speculated upon. There wasn't much of anything I'd call a plothole in there. And it being predictable really has nothing to do with why it's bad. Plenty of movies are predictable and great. Hell, Alien is predictable.

 

[knut]

alien is anything but predictable. contextually, you as a viewer, with no indication as to how to perceive the film outside of shutting yourself off from the outside world - at the time of it's original air date - and subjecting yourself to watching it as a solitary experience, had you not heard so much about the film in popular media/hindsight, you would have no idea that a) the creature would burst from kane's chest, b) ridley would play the leading role and c) the film would end with the creature smuggling aboard the narcissus.

and all of that is a fact, and i'll stand defiantly by that. alien is anything but predictable. sorry.

 

[Sheepo]

I disagree. I watched it young, with no real concept of any of it. Yes, obviously the chest burster is not predictable, but it's certainly clear that something's up that will end up conflicting with the ship and that Kane will die. It is pretty obvious Ripley had the leading role. If you don't understand that Ripley is the one coming out of this (or that she'll be last to die) by the time Kane dies, you're hopelessly blind. And I had my suspicions the moment they said they'd take the emergency shuttle and by the time turns back to turn off the self destruct, I was positive it'd be stowed away. It's not predictable that Ash is an android, it is predictable that he isn't to be trusted and that he and Ripley will have a (probably violent) stand off. It's predictable that something terrible and most likely fatal will happen to Kane when he descends alone into a different part of the ship. It's predictable that the one mechanic guy will die the minute he starts to look for the cat. It's obvious that Parker and the other girl will die as soon as they leave Ripley. It's obvious that Dallas will die as soon as he gets in the vents.

Perhaps it's a familiarity with basic horror movies, but I found I saw a ton of stuff coming in advance. And I don't care. It's not a criticism. To some degree movies should be predictable. The writing is supposed to leave us anxious and in suspense. If I didn't distrust Ash, the movie wouldn't be half as tense. If I didn't know something bad was going to happen, I wouldn't be on the edge of my seat. What I'm saying is that Prometheus is predictable, yet that isn't why it's bad. It's bad because all of the predictable things that happen happen under rather contrived circumstances to characters I do not care one little bit about.

 

[knut]

but basically all of that boils down to you becoming the very thing you loathed most in omnomnicks' post when you said ''you're that really cool guy that every one doesn't think is annoying as shit'' when he stated he disliked prometheus because of how much of it he predicted, no?

not that i think you're annoying as shit or anything - and this isn't a hostile attack - but it is kind of the same thing. you may of predicted all of that in alien and he predicted all of the shit that happened in prometheus. is that really something that warrants a snarky reply if you yourself felt similarly about alien?

 

[morgs]

Unexplained =/= plothole

 

[kineaesth]

obviously the chest burster is not predictable, but it's certainly clear It is pretty obvious Ripley I had my suspicions I was positive It's not predictable it is predictable It's predictable It's predictable It's obvious It's obvious

This is just movies and the habitus of movies that you learn. This is you, as a movie watcher, knowing that movies that are dark and scary have people who get killed, when people seperate someone dies, there are scary things in vents, etc

Sure you may have guessed that the guy who goes looking for the cat would die, but not that the alien would hang from the ceiling and impale him with its tail

There's a big difference between knowing what to expect and movies being predictable

 

[Sheepo]

but basically all of that boils down to you becoming the very thing you loathed most in omnomnicks' post when you said ''you're that really cool guy that every one doesn't think is annoying as shit'' when he stated he disliked prometheus because of how much of it he predicted, no?

not that i think you're annoying as shit or anything - and this isn't a hostile attack - but it is kind of the same thing. you may of predicted all of that in alien and he predicted all of the shit that happened in prometheus. is that really something that warrants a snarky reply if you yourself felt similarly about alien?

It's just a pet peeve of movie goers I have that basically boils down to
A) Being very critical and cynical about a movie, with still much of it to go (unless it's just super obviously a terrible movie, generally to a degree that you know going in it'll be abysmal; kind of goes hand in hand with people who let their prior expectations rule their judgement IE: if I know you expected a bad movie and you're griping after five minutes, I doubt you're really gonna give it a chance).
B) Guessing at things and making predictions. Either you're just stating the obvious that everyone else is already thinking or you're ruining it for someone else. Weee, you can see what's coming in movies, aren't you just the smartest, now maybe leave so we can watch it in peace?
What I said to Nick wasn't about him being able to predict things, it was about him making a big deal out of it and basically leading me to believe he was violating peeve A and B. I do commonly have expectations and predictions for where movies will go, but I keep them to myself as I know everyone else does it and it is neither a sign that I'm a genius or that a movie is bad.

This is just movies and the habitus of movies that you learn. This is you, as a movie watcher, knowing that movies that are dark and scary have people who get killed, when people seperate someone dies, there are scary things in vents, etc

Sure you may have guessed that the guy who goes looking for the cat would die, but not that the alien would hang from the ceiling and impale him with its tail

There's a big difference between knowing what to expect and movies being predictable

So a movie is predictable if you can guess how things will happen, not just what will happen? Fair enough, I suppose. I guess it's a more useful definition than mine seeing as there are very few movies that aren't predictable under my definition.

 

[Omnomnick]

What I said to Nick wasn't about him being able to predict things, it was about him making a big deal out of it and basically leading me to believe he was violating peeve A and B. I do commonly have expectations and predictions for where movies will go, but I keep them to myself as I know everyone else does it and it is neither a sign that I'm a genius or that a movie is bad.

I was simply sharing my opinion/experience of the film, which is the whole reason this thread exists. From my perspective there was very little in Prometheus that could warrant it as a good or even decent movie. Yeah it looked nice, but which film doesn't these days?

 

[Sheepo]

I don't disagree at all. I just think it was more 'okay, I guess' than it was bad and your reasons for condemning it were either unfounded or not actually a very negative quality.

 

[Naudian]

Agree that the pacing was off, dialogue was poo, scenario believability was 0. Given how much potential this kind of movie has, I give it 3/10. Maybe 4/10 because I liked some of the actors performances, and the graphix.

 

[Edeslash]

AWKWARDLY LOUD BREATHING NOISE: THE MOVIE

I enjoyed the film but I was very, very disappointed in how it descended from reflecting our creation into violent splatter. Also, the stereotypical characters were horrible. The naive android, the funny black pilot, the ****ing German scientist woman, the dominant and cold to-be-leader who OF COURSE is implied to have sex, sorry, get laid during the film. I also had no idea it was Alien-related until the end.

 

[Sheepo]

There was a german scientist woman?

 

[Zephos]

I appreciated it. It had some ambition. It had some absolutely fascinating ideas but as Ross said never at all elaborated on them. I loved the opening scene. I loved the surgery scene. I loved pretty much any scene involving David. The movie as a whole just didn't gel though. No pacing, no sense of identity. Was it a horror film where the crew is killed off one by one? Is it an action film? A film about our origins and other philosophy ala 2001? It aspires to be everything all at once and while I don't think it's impossible that they could have pulled this off in this film it seems like they were lost from the very beginning as to what they actually wanted it to be.

But again, in all it's disparate parts it tends to work more often than not. Again, I love David. I loved the whole idea of the circles of life and what it means to create life (and equally destroy). The reams and repetition of sacrificing life to begin it. The idea of meeting our makers. All fascinating stuff, just never properly executed or more to the point, ever fully explored in the first place.

Still, it left me with a lot of food for thought. Which in the age where every blockbuster seemingly feels like a comic book adaptation, is a compliment of the highest order.

 

[JUL3]

I really enjoyed Prometheus. Happy with a bit of a cliche story so long as its got gore, shock and filmic beauty.

Spoiler

The engineer at the beginning was my favourite part. Seeing his DNA 'break' was so cool.

I've never seen Alien - I had to study Aliens last year though, and really enjoyed it.

 

[Remus]

Well I saw it yesterday evening, and overall I enjoyed it too.

Some things:

Spoiler

I know they were trying to leave room for a sequel, but not answering the question of why the Engineers/Space jockeys wanted us dead still bothered me. One possible reason I could think of why they wanted to kill us was probably because they thought we would become a threat to them at some point.
As for why they made us in the first place? In the conversation between the biologist and David, the probable reason given is "because they could", and that sounds like a believable reason to me. Like David puts it, it's a disappointing reason, but a realistic one LOL.

Also the whole rip the android to bits routine is getting silly. They should seriously consider making their synthetics stronger in that Universe LOL. However then again David was supposed to be basically a glorified assistant/butler, so building him like the ****ing Terminator wouldn't make much sense.
Something I disagreed with was the implication that David was basically a philosophical zombie. Relatively convincing as a human on the outside, but incapable of experience or consciousness.

Speaking of synthetics, since he was dying why didn't Wayland just have his brain transferred to a synthetic body?

Last but not least I was kind of disappointed of the Space jokey design. Ever since Alien I always thought they looked like giant anthropomorphic elephants, but now they take it all back by saying oh no that trunk was actually part of an environment suit helmet thing.