"Relatively small"

[ríomhaire]

Dr. Kleiner states that the portal storms were relativly small but it allowed the Combine to break through. They covered the whole planet, that's small? What's big?

Also, if they used that tear does that mean they would have had to come through from Xen?

 

[$kelet0r]

small in size does not mean small in spread
of course it raises the question, how do the combine actually travel from world to world

edit -

if they used that tear does that mean they would have had to come through from Xen?

not necessarily but it is possible. It's either that or portal storms can be detected like planes on radar, ships on sonar and they were able to locate earth that way. Of course the latter then raises the question of how the combine even deemed earth worthy of invasion without prior knowledge...unless the Combine were on Xen (probable) or the Gman was employed by the combine (probable) or both

 

[Asknoone]

I'm pretty sure he did not mean the portal storms. He meant the resonance cascade, which was technically smaller, but something the Combine managed to open wider. They detected the energies of it, so I assume they simply forced the gap wider, and wider - and as we see, the portal storms spread across Earth.

I'm actually confused.

 

[$kelet0r]

it kind of contradicts the whole massive dark energy reactor being able to tunnel through space - this kind of says well your fancy long range teleport is useless unless there are portals already on the other side

 

[Asknoone]

I think they used the portal storms to get to Earth - channeling through via their Dark energy reactors which picked up on the huge amounts of energy. Earth is pretty far aware from their universe, in another universe, infact, so it's really going to be difficult to tunnel through. I assume whatever other planets and races they conquered were in the vicinity of the Combine empire.

Remember, the Combine suck ass at teleportation.

 

[$kelet0r]

But that raises the issue of WHY?

Surely they don't haul ass with a monstrous invasion force to any old planet that is giving off energy in what amounts to a totally natural occurence

holes in our plot understanding...problems problems :|

 

[Asknoone]

No, I don't think they do. The way I'm seeing it now is that teleportation is a relatively new thing to the Combine. They have these huge teleporters and can transport massive structures, but it takes such a huge mass of energy to get from one place to another. It must have cost the Combine a great deal of energy to reach Earth. (begs the question, it is 20 years on - has it payed off?)

The Combine are in a 'Cosmic war' with countless other races, and they've enslaved countless more. Did they use teleportation to get there? Somehow, I doubt it. Well, at least not for everything. They could have easily used ships to get from planet to planet (not feasible when considering universe to universe) or easily teleported Citadels to and from at a short distance.

They don't do what they do on Earth all the time, at all even. Breen was a one off - they were going to wipe us out, and enslave whatever remained. They suck up resources and absorb the remaining species. But Breen was tasked with managing the assimilation program because he offered so much more.
Most of the stuff the Combine know and do has come from assimilating countless races, it is why they are unstoppable.
They probably came all the way to Earth because the border world refugees had just been trounced by Gordon Freeman and thought holy shit, this race is immense - wipe them off the map and while were at it, gain a foot hold in yet another universe.

I don't reckon resonance cascades happen often, and it simply attracted their attention.

The way I see it, anyhow.

 

[$kelet0r]

But then why wouldn't they use massive ships for long haul on earth - surely it sould have been difficult to miss them or their docking ports, so there isn't any evidence to even suggest they use interplanetary ships. In fact the dark matter teleports is all we have and now it seems that there needs to be a portal on the other end
That suggests that
1. The Combine only invade planets that have developed teleport tech (which doesn't hold either as Earth had developed teleportation on a local level at least)
or
2. The portal storms were a beacon (which doesn't make sense either - why send an all out invasion to a planet you know nothing about)

In fact it might suggest that the Combine were on Xen all along and simply bided their time and possibly controlled a portal on their end or that the portal storms allowed the Combine to 'cheat' and send their invasion years ahead of schedule by piggy backing off the Xen portals rather than go the long way.

They don't do what they do on Earth all the time, at all even. Breen was a one off - they were going to wipe us out, and enslave whatever remained. They suck up resources and absorbed the remaining species. But Breen was tasked with managing the assimilation program because he offered so much more.
Most of the stuff the Combine know and do has come from assimilating countless races, it is why they are unstoppable.
They probably came all the way to Earth because the border world refugees had just been trounced by Gordon Freeman and thought holy shit, this race is immense - wipe them off the map and while were at it, gain a foot hold in yet another universe.

I don't resonance cascades happen often, and it simply attracted their attention.

We don't know that - we don't even know if what Breen claims to have achieved actually means a thing. He could simply have the administrator because he offered rather than the combine just picking one. If anything he has achieved nothing that the combine would not have done anyway - the combine are not exactly very efficient as evidenced by their use of synths (the very slow and blind striders somes to mind) and not machines, or their ineffective slaves or their monstrous computer terminals or their slow response to Freeman or their inability to achieve local teleportation etc.
As for the resonance cascade 'attracting their attention' well that doesn't make sense - why send an invasion force to an unknown anomaly where ther might not even be a planet!

They probably came all the way to Earth because the border world refugees had just been trounced by Gordon Freeman and thought holy shit, this race is immense - wipe them off the map and while were at it, gain a foot hold in yet another universe.

I don't believe you think the Combine were on Xen at all so this is interesting reading

 

[Asknoone]

Oh, I think it is pretty clear it isn't a one off thing. It's really, really inpractical. Breen surrendered Earth - I mean, they were about to wipe us out. They detected the energy (as said in the strat guide), and wondered what had caused such a huge ****ing rip in space.

Why didn't they use ships to get Earth? Because A, they have no idea where it is, and can only detect the energy. B, they have no idea how to get to another universe.
On Earth, we only really see a small amount of the Combines army. The soldiers are humans, the Striders, gunships and dropships are suited to Earth, so they remained. There really wasn't much of a threat, so they sent everyone home to keep fighting.

The Combine war machines are on Earth because they are well suited there.

 

[$kelet0r]

Oh, I think it is pretty clear it isn't a one off thing. It's really, really inpractical. Breen surrendered Earth - I mean, they were about to wipe us out. They detected the energy (as said in the strat guide), and wondered what had caused such a huge ****ing rip in space.

i disagree - it makes no sense for the combine to wipe us out, especially if they invaded in the first place they must consider us useful. In fact Breen seems to be more of the fall guy - the man with a misplaced sense of destiny. By surrendering Earth, the combine got more live bodies rather than having to fight every last person who resisted - which played nicely into the hands of the combine. Wiping humanity out just makes no sense - it makes the combine look sadistic and petty which they definitely are not.

Why didn't they use ships to get Earth? Because A, they have no idea where it is, and can only detect the energy. B, they have no idea how to get to another universe.

that also makes no sense - not knowing where earth is, yet being able to pinpoint the portal storms location to lock a teleport onto it completely contradict each other
And ships? What ships? That's not even speculation, that's grasping at straws, what if the earth had turned out to be like Xen? The combine would have been fooked - stranded on lonely pieces of rock with no transportation.

We know -
1. the combine transported in Citadels directly into the centre of major cities
implying
- the combine knew about earth so they must have also been on Xen, how else could they have observed us
- the combine were aided (by Breen?), how else would the citadels have been teleported in so efficiently
- the combine considered humanity worth assimilating thus contradicting Breen's view of himself as humanity's saviour - he is a collaborator not a hero who bowed to a mix of promises of power and human eternal life and threats of humanity's extermination. I believe that with or without Breen it would have happened anyway - he just made it a whole lot easier regardless of what he believes himself.

If anything that line suggests alot of things that make me quite happy
- That the Combine were on Xen (how else could they have known about earth and humanity)
- That the Combine controlled Xen at the end of hl1 (how else could they have used th portal storms)
- That the Combine never mastered local teleportation because a)it died with the Nihilanth or b) if you take OPfor as canon, then local teleportation relied on native specially built creatures like the Nihilanth and OPFor's end Boss. If anything the Combine possibly didn't waste their resources making a human Nihilanth because Breen promised them local teleportation technology. Without Breen they probably would have tried to creat a human nihilanth
- That the Gman worked for the Combine (hence his line 'Xen is under our control')

happy days

 

[Asknoone]

i disagree - it makes no sense for the combine to wipe us out, especially if they invaded in the first place they must consider us useful. In fact Breen seems to be more of the fall guy - the man with a misplaced sense of destiny. By surrendering Earth, the combine got more live bodies rather than having to fight every last person who resisted - which played nicely into the hands of the combine.

Do you think they really care about the Overwatch? Breen was still, after 20 years, trying to prove that we, as a species, are worth something. They were still suspicious of Breen and his motives. They did not need humanity that badly.

 

[Llama]

They still dont. Local Teleport technology would be a huge boon but, if the Combine beat us in 7 hours twenty years ago, what makes you think they really need it?

 

[$kelet0r]

Do you think they really care about the Overwatch? Breen was still, after 20 years, trying to prove that we, as a species, are worth something. They were still suspicious of Breen and his motives. They did not need humanity that badly.

Does it matter if they cared? The overwatch were unused transhuman forces - they weren't exactly part of the great scheme of things. What we have yet to see is what the Combine really got from Earth - a human synth. We already know that the humans make formiddable fighters in the hl2 universe - one can only imagine a human snyth with the combat abilities of an elite shock trooper, the agility of an elite assassin combined with the snyth armour.
besides what is their hurry? Breen has promised local teleportation which in HL2 is nearing a successful prototype. The humans are before Freeman arrives of no threat. The policing of humans is done by humans. And we already know that the Combine while calculating and deliberate are slow and inefficient in many areas (technology, teleportation, governing yada yada) - it's very possible that their assimilation process is not even near completion by HL2.
The Combine are not exactly suspicious of Breen - he wears his motives of his sleeve, they all relate to his ego (hero complex), his scientific ideology (eternal life), his pragmatism (misplaced I believe but in his eyes he ended the bloodshed) and fear (the combine seem quick to threaten Breen with human annihilation and yet in 2 decades they are still busy watching the wheels of assimilation grind on. What they are is contemptuous of him (the scene where Breen is offered transport off world rather than a rescue seems to fit this nicely - the Combine don't care, he can either make use of the resources that are already available to him or die at Freeman's hands)- he is after all a lesser life form with pretentions of equal power with the combine.

 

[Langolier]

Do you think they really care about the Overwatch? Breen was still, after 20 years, trying to prove that we, as a species, are worth something. They were still suspicious of Breen and his motives. They did not need humanity that badly.

For once I agree, though it does seem foolish of the Combine. Humanity, at a comparatively lesser level of technological sophistication has far surpassed the Combine in relation to teleportation tech. Yet they still set up a dampening field to prevent reproduction and then turn what... Maybe two thirds of the people they capture into mindless technicians (Stalkers) and the rest into incompetent soldiers?

CP's it seems aren't assimilated at all. (though perhaps with increased rank they get the privilage of a lobotomy and join the Overwatch trans-humans)

Then again it seems they are using Trans-humans in other parts of the Empire... Still... It seems foolish to utalize troops that can't be replaced for very long. (considering how many humans are in the resistance and/or just being slaughtered without a second thought) Then again I suppose that supports that the Overwatch troops are nothing but cannon fodder anyway.

If I had been the Combine I'd have tricked humanity into allying with me and providing me with their Teleportation tech, and any other gadgets they might invent. Convince them I need their innovation to combat some other nasty empire... Something called the "Combine" perhaps. Once I have everything I need from them it is much easier to launch the 7-minute war.

 

[ríomhaire]

I'm pretty sure he did not mean the portal storms. He meant the resonance cascade, which was technically smaller, but something the Combine managed to open wider. They detected the energies of it, so I assume they simply forced the gap wider, and wider - and as we see, the portal storms spread across Earth.

*cough*satilite launch*cough*

Maybe I'm right and the Combine conquers Xen between HL1 and 2

 

[Langolier]

*cough*satilite launch*cough*

Maybe I'm right and the Combine conquers Xen between HL1 and 2

If that's true then it supports the idea that the G-Man was working against the Combine in HL1 since we know he was involved with the military and the military went out of their way to abort the launch.

On the other hand the sattelite was launched under Dr. Keller's guidance to stop the initial resonance cascade from expanding. Something that would appear to be supported by what we saw in HL1. After the launch we saw, I believe, two bullsquids teleport into Black Mesa only minutes after. (about the time it'd take to get the satellite in orbit. After that the only creatures we saw teleporting in entered in very strategic ways.

 

[Black Op]

My thoughts:

1. Dr. Kleiner was vague when he described how humanity's enemies forced the opening caused at Black Mesa to grow wider as they poured through in greater numbers. From my understanding, the armies of the Universial Union arrived all at once in their Citadels. Therefore it's my belief that Kleiner was actually referring to the forces of the Nihilanth, which he left unnamed due to the presence of the Vortigaunt allies. It rather reminds me of a US propaganda series during WWII (called "Why We Fight" I believe) when they never mention the British when the Declaration of Indenpendence is discussed. And besides, I don't think the Combine can be stopped from teleporting by magic barriers that only weaken in dimensional breaches. If that were so, Portal Storms would have to happen for every single Conbine invasion involving teleportation.

2. The Universial Union don't need to be on Xen in order to gain intelligence on Earth. G-Man afterall didn't need to go through Xen in order to infiltrate Black Mesa. As G-Man seems to act as a monitor for his Employers, so I wouldn't be suprised if the Combine didn't just pay for infomation regarding Earth. It would be true to G-Man's unsympathetic nature, and give another reason to hate that guy.

Also, whoever constructed the Nihilanth did a second-rate job at it. It couldn't have been the Combine since the Nihilanth would have had obvious Synth features on it then, and not appear to be stitched-up. Also, the Nihilanth could have sent actual Combine troops to Black Mesa instead of relying on Vortigaunt forces. Finally, the Combine would have Nihilanths stationed all across their dominion if they could create them.

3. Breen has no way to make contact with his Benefactors if there's no Citadels. So he had no part in the Seven Hours War other than declarring surrender.

4. I think the comments on how humanity itself was just about to be wiped out are slightly taken out of context. Granted, Earth's resistance in the form of it's militaries got destroyed in seven hours. However there's nothing to suggest from the abandoned script concerning the Seven Hours War slideshow that the Combine were on a mission of genocide. However the old script does show that Dr. Breen managed to grab alot of power before he surrendered, so Breen would not have to be a Combine operative in order for his surrender to be legitimate.

5. Finally, it must be realized that we've never seen the Combine operate outside of Earth so far in the HL series. For all we know, many other Combine territories have to undergo similar assimilation programs as as the one on Earth. During this time, the Advisors and those above them could evaluate what parts of a species are worth inserting into their armies and those that are better off enslaved. Knowing how real-life scientific studies can last for many years before they are finished, this is not all that farfetched. Seeing how Earth citizens are never seen doing tasks for their masters unless they're Stalkers or part of the Overwatch, the Combine probably were still evaluating Earth when Freeman ****ed everything up.

 

[Darkest90]

The Dispatcher reminds Combine Civil Protection that failure might result in 'off-world assignment'.

The Combine are not horrible at teleportation, they can afford to send mere soldiers into different universes.

What they can't do is teleport 'within' the same universe. Black Mesa East was able to do that by bouncing off of Xen. The Combine require the Citadel, its Dark Fusion Reactor, and a good deal of energy to tunnel through another universe.

Otherwise, the only other way is a huge burst of energy. They can tunnel back to their universe without their Dark Fusion Reactor or Citadel machines, but only if they use a bunch of energy equivalent to detonating the Citadel, as they did in Ep1.

Furthermore, I believe that Dr. Breen was communicating with the Combine before the Black Mesa incident and the resonance cascade. There are numerous hints that he arranged for the accident to take place. The Combine must have been able to send messages through universes without the aid of the Citadels. The Resonance Cascade must have been a requirement for the Combine to slip into our universe.

I think its possible that the Resonance Cascade had a limited affect, only around Black Mesa labs. If it had happened elsewhere during the event of HL1, then the soldiers would have been deployed everywhere and have been distracted, and not all at BM.

Then the satellite was launched, which later allowed for further portal storms. The gap grew wider and wider. Even without the nihilanth, the Combine were able to use that dimensional gap to send in soldiers, and vast armies and war machines. Its possible that Dr. Breen gave them information on suitable landing sites for the Citadels, and so long-term reconnaissance wouldn't be required.

...

 

[Arkangel]

They probobly send them in batches, not one at a time, that would waste to much energy, why not just kill them then?

I do not think that Dr. Breen had any contact with the combine, they knew where to drop the citadels because everyone lived in the citys, being forced to move there when the Xen wildlife teleported in. The Combine came some time after that, a few month or years maybe.

Also, the portal storms only spread some time after the satellite or the death of Nihilath and the Gene Worm, cause the HECU deployed a lot of tanks, helicopters, fighter planes and general tropps at BS, which could have been used elsewere.

When the Combine picked up the RC, they have to come up with a strikeforce big enought to take the planet, which must have been rather large, even in a suprise attack. The fact that people all lived in the citys by now means that it took some time to get that strikeforce before a attack was possible.

Then, the rest is history.

Just my theory anyway ^^

 

[0mar]

Combine teleporters can tunnel through different universes, transplant whole armies, Citadels and such. The best humanity can do is send a single person 50-60 miles away?

 

[Remus]

I for one seriously doubt Breen had any contact with the Combine before. So how the heck did the Combine know where to teleport the citadels or whether their war machines would even be effective here without any reconnaissance. If you think about it, it doesn't make sense. For all they knew they could've sent their best machines through the portal and had their asses handed to them. Or maybe they did have info about us, but how?

 

[ríomhaire]

Furthermore, I believe that Dr. Breen was communicating with the Combine before the Black Mesa incident and the resonance cascade. There are numerous hints that he arranged for the accident to take place. The Combine must have been able to send messages through universes without the aid of the Citadels. The Resonance Cascade must have been a requirement for the Combine to slip into our universe.

7c: Infinite Regress:
Infinite regress occurs when one premise is simultaneously dependant on another when neither is proven.

Then the satellite was launched, which later allowed for further portal storms. The gap grew wider and wider. Even without the nihilanth, the Combine were able to use that dimensional gap to send in soldiers, and vast armies and war machines.

Bullshit, the satillite was to stop the resonance cascade.


Edit: And acording to Kleiner the Combine can no longer comunicate with the soldiers on Earth. How could they have done it before there were even portal storms?

 

[Black Op]

Furthermore, I believe that Dr. Breen was communicating with the Combine before the Black Mesa incident and the resonance cascade. There are numerous hints that he arranged for the accident to take place. The Combine must have been able to send messages through universes without the aid of the Citadels. The Resonance Cascade must have been a requirement for the Combine to slip into our universe.

Wrong, Earth had no machines able to pick up any sort of transmission from the Combine universe. You have no concrete proof that Dr. Breen intended to cause the Cascade. Never in the HL series have we seen any Combine equipment used for interdimensional communication that wasn't reliant on the Citadels. And finally, tunnel entanglement teleportation would be useless as an invasion tool if dimensional breaches had to be created first. If the Combine had to do this every time, it would be dreadfully obvious when to expect a Combine invasion.

Then the satellite was launched, which later allowed for further portal storms. The gap grew wider and wider. Even without the nihilanth, the Combine were able to use that dimensional gap to send in soldiers, and vast armies and war machines. Its possible that Dr. Breen gave them information on suitable landing sites for the Citadels, and so long-term reconnaissance wouldn't be required.

There's no direct proof the satellite caused further Portal Storms. They're far more likely to have been a result of the Nihilanth's death. Again, it would be impractical to use tunnel entanglement for invasions if "magic force fields" had to be penetrated via dimensional rifts. Finally, there's no way Breen could have been in contact with the Combine. Even G-Man would have been far more likely to sell out Earth to the Combine before the invasion.

 

[ShadowJustice]

I think the combines automatically attack the dimensions and civilizations they find. That's why their army contains so many different species. I think their only purpose is to "combinize" the entire existance. Something like a dimensional-spreading virus, passing from dimension to dimension, until there are no more dimensions left. Well that or maybe the earth is a strategically placed dimensional outpost of some sort.