May 24, 2003
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Dont worry im not going to try to start off i flame war but its obvious this forum contains quite a diverse set of people. I was just curious what everyone belives. Does anyone here other than me have a religion? What are your views on religion?
Well in my day, I was originally Wikka, although I came across evidence from my psychology, Philosophy and through other reseach, many flaws which I could not explain...

Thus this brought me on the path which I currently tread, as an Athesist... I'm not going to post the full details on here, as for the same reason of not starting flame wars... But I have my reasons,
although I do still hold some of the beliefs of my wikka days
Well, I for one Christian, but I don’t go to church on Sunday, I don’t pray, etc. So I can say I am a bad Christian?
I couldnt say your a bad Christian i dont know you. All i know of you is what you have written in the forum. But it is generally a good idea to go to church if you are.

You dont have to. Its like that saying, 'going to a garage doesnt make you a car.' But you can add to that 'cars that dont visit the garrage normally fall apart.'

I think though that if you are a Christian and not just saying it, not parying isnt a good idea. Because just like any friendship you need to talk with each other (Im talking about speaking with God) otherwise you drift apart.
Then I drifted apart long time ago, but I still believe in God, I just don’t want to believe in two things, Hell\Heaven. Seems like if God gave us free will, why did he set up so many rules to follow.

But this is exciding of life; you don’t know what will await for you after death.
The rules are there to keep us safe. Anarchy would be a terrible tihng. Not only that but what doesnt it seems wrong that someone who lives a sinful life would get into heaven. Many western countries are supposedly free countries, yet we still have laws. Does that mean we do not have free will?

We do have freedom of choice. That is why it cannot be absolutely proven that God exists unless you believe.
I would like to say I had beliefs and I have one simple one..... we are glorified monkeys with a conscience....nothing more.....the fact that the idea of a god occurs in isolation all around the world suggests that humanity feels the need to shift the blame onto a heavenly being....but I don't know really....I guess I am an Aethist...although I do consider Buddhism to be the most sensible (??!!? if religion can be) ideaology....thats what I'd be
You could look at it like that. Or similarly you could say that people all around the world are seeing God but they don't know what to make of it exactly. I really cant go into at the moment but after looking through history, its amazing the patterns that Ive seen and things like that. Its difficult for me to explain, as Ive said before putting what i intend to into writing isn't my strong point.

As for glorified monkeys, there still isnt enough evidence for me to believe that i evolved from a monkey. or anything else for that matter.
I'm an atheist, therefore have no beliefs in religion, but do respect what they believe in.
too change topic, I don't believe that we evolved from the Apes,

If we evloved from anything I belive it should be Dinosaurs, which explains there extinction, and the survival of other species that were around at the time (aligators, Dragon flies, many types of prehistoric aqautic life etc)

And It is strange that all bible/holy books/stories show the same pattern and basically the same story (I've read alot of them) , although If I was to follow any holy book now, it would be the book of the summarians (look it up, and if you do It makes sense think about it, and no I'm not mad!?!)
arr, but did you ever research past what you have been taught...

The only reason that people say we evolved from apes, is that we have a slight similarity in DNA and we look slightly the same...?!?

YES dinosaurs, why not, it's got better evidence in my opinion than the last one, and also fits into the Summarian Holy Book perfectly...

EDIT: (I really should stop putting those dots in)
Hmm, I would have to say that I'm an atheist. But, I do think many of the events in the holy writings (Bible, etc.) did actually happen. People just did not know how to explain them and attributed them to something supernatural.

I'm also a big fan of Erich von Däniken. :)
Originally posted by nietzsche
Farrowlesparrow, did it occur to you that this is simply a given fact by now? I wonder if you attended university or even school for that matter. I hope you will see what i meant by saying religion would be a hindrance to my mental development/liberty at the end of this thread.

Stone: Dinosaurs?

My mental development is in no way hindered by my religion. Far from it. If you knew me you at all would know that im always out to discover new things. I read many science magazines, i do infact have one sitting next to me right now. Im not old enough to go to university and yes i did go to school and im attending college at the moment. Id like to say that it has not been proven that we evolved from apes. That is why it is the 'theory' of evolution not the 'fact' of evolution. I see what you meant but im sorry to say you are wrong. People who say they are hindered by religion are either in the wrong one or are using it as a convenient excuse for their own problems.

LoneDeranger the miricle is not necesarrily in the event but the timing as well. For instance the 12 plagues of eqypt have infact been proven possible and even likely. The timing of it is so perfect though that it is impossible to be coincidence, especially considering the other events that happen throughout the bible.
Please ignore Stone's crackpot theories.....I haven't let him get out recently.....I've made sure he has been modelling (For OES, before the pre-pubescents get ideas) :devil: well, yeh most of the things in the Bible did happen, and if they didn't doesn't mean they have no relevence at all, some of them are useful teachings that some people would do well to learn.....
I don't necessarily agree with all of his writings, but his theories are just as good as any other proposed by religion.
Originally posted by nietzsche
He's a good fantasy author. Please don't even remotely think of his theories as scientific research, do you? I hope that no one in here believes in aliens, which landed on earth, or i'm gonna freak out.

Well I used to believe in the Illuminati and convinced my GCSE english teacher that it was all true, and she got paranoid :)....but those things aside....the Illuminati died out when Weishaupt fled there........
When you say 'religion' you are grouping an awful lot of different ideologies into one. Just thought i mention that.

I don't think that anyone here really understands what Christianity is about. Because to be honest if you did you would be a Christian. I know because i am one, but i also know what its like to not be one. I'm far better off now than i ever was. I keep saying it but if people here actually knew me you would see that I'm quite a level headed person. I'm also a realist (Some may say even to the point of being a cynic but I'm not that bad) and i wont jump into something without giving it long though and consulting other people who's opinions i have respect for (e.g. someone i know well, or know will give me a straight honest answer) Christianity isnt just about 'being good', 'giving', and 'being kind' its also about recieving blessing. You dont have to struggle through life so long as you have faith in God. You can do very well. Sadly we are still human and many Christians still have fear in them which doesnt allow them to be as bold as they could.
Originally posted by nietzsche
Sparrow, I don't have to know you well. Your posts speak volumes. Apparently your hard-nosed belief in your religion doesn't let you accept facts about life on this earth, because they shake the very fundamentals of your religion. Kid, you're not talking to a teenie. The only problems i have are with religious zealots/fanatics who don't let the majority of us human beings live a life in dignity on this planet.

Thats just it. Ive been trying to say that its difficult for me to speak through writing as it isnt my strong point. I do acept facts and the thing is evolution is NOT a fact. I do believe there to be micro evolution where things can adapt to their enviroment, that is easy to see. But It is impossible to prove evolution to be true without either a time machine or a civilisation to be around for millions of years. Darwin renounced his theory but people were glad to get their hands on something that was against Christianity.
Originally posted by Farrowlesparrow
Sadly we are still human and many Christians still have fear in them which doesnt allow them to be as bold as they could.

Fear what, what makes you lose that fear Farrow?
Originally posted by mrBadger
Fear what, what makes you lose that fear Farrow?
Im not sure i really understand what you are asking there.

But here goes. Once ask God for help and take a step of faith there is no need to be scared. Scared of telling people about your beliefs as well as trusting that God will help you through things even if its seems as if you may hit rock bottom.
Originally posted by nietzsche
The Illuminati are not a religious cult.

errrrr....yes they were.....they had real beliefs about various things, they grew out of the Masons, and the Masons are a cult
Originally posted by mrBadger
And why are you "Sadly human"?

You are taking my words out of context. Im saying that because we are human, we are afraid of things we need not be. Im not saying that being human is a bad thing but it does have drawbacks.
I don't want to debate over any form of religion. To me you believe what you believe, and more often than not no one will ever make you change your mind. Sure, make your beliefs and opinions known, but at some point it becomes a tug-o-war that never ends.

My personal belief is that there is no way mankind was created from evolution. I think we're just too complex, and live in such a vast world, that it's not something evolution itself could have created. The first time I really felt this way, was when I was 15 and climbed to the peak of Mount Elbert in Colorado with my church group. Standing over 13,000 feet off the ground can really change your opinion quickly. To see how vast, how great, and how beautiful this world really is quickly led me to the conclusion that there must be some sort of God.

What I don't really believe in though, is the modern church. I agree that people should get together and worship God, although I think the modern church is more of a santuary for hiding sin than anything else. I just don't believe in something man has created. We're too full of hypocracy, pride, and greed. Organized religion has been nurtured by man, therefore I don't feel it's importance is relevant.
Why do you not believe in something man has are on the net, that has been created by man, to not believe that and deny all the wonderous achievments mankind has made over the ages is a true sin
Your right.

I really dont like to argue about my religion because it serves no purpose. I normally only talk to people about it when they are open to hearing about it.

I take it you live in america. Having seen what the Church is like over there its no wonder you feel that way, it seems to very segregated and caught up in 'beurocracy' for want of a better word.

Im unsure about this bit but are you saying that you believe in God as in the God of Christians?
Just to set the record straight: I was christened as a newborn baby, although the priest didn't accept my real name. He forced me to be christened Markus, but that's another story.

This just shows that you dont really know what Christianity is about. What you saw is 'religion' in its worst form i.e. full of tradition. The catholic church is the perfect example of this. Im not saying that catholics are not christians but they are caught up in tradition which hinders them greatly.
I guess I'm Agnostic.

As far as Christianity goes I'd say that most christians are in fact not christians at all. A Christian would follow the teachings of Christ, hence the title. Christ did not teach bigotry, war and ignorance. He taught peace, love, patience and understanding. The majority of Christians I've met seem to have this air of superiority about them. And they also seem to think that my long hair and a metallica t-shirt is a surefire ticket to hell. Despite the fact that I have "sinned" far less in my life than my best friend who is a hardcore Christian. They seem to think that their faith gives them permission to make slaves out of the people that don't agree. And in my experience they absolutley refuse any other possible explanation for the world.

One time while going to church with a friend of mine (and wearing said Metallica T) there was this little kid that was genuenly frightened of me. He backed away and found his mother who just gave me a strange look. Very few Christians (in my opinion) ever attempt to see things from any point of view other than their own. For the most part I'd say that this is because they've been raised with their beliefs. And the religion itself preaches those beliefs infaliability.

On a personal note, none of that rant was directed specifically towards you Sparrow.

I also don't agree with evolution simply because the odds for something like that happening are astronomical. (lightning striking certain chemicals and forming dna.. it's just a long shot)

In the end I'd say that I believe in nothing but endless possibility. It's certainly possible that there is a Christian God and everything talked about in the bible happened exatcly that way. It's also possible that evolution occured and we're nothing more than meat. But until the day I die I'll have absolutley no real answer and I'm done trying to guess.
Thank you for not targetting me. But there is one thing i would like to point out. Ive said it before and il say it again. Christians are still human. Sometimes our egos can get the better of us and that is what causes this 'superiority' you are feeling. You also mention sinning. its not about how much you sin, God will always forgive you if you ask for it and mean it. There isnt a righteous person on this planet and there never will be until the Jesus returns. Its not like collecting brownie points, although some people make it seems that way.
Badger, I'm not saying I don't believe in anything man has created, because man has created some wonderous advances. Seeing the pyramids in Egypt last summer was breathtaking. Not to mention, flight, space travel, and the internet. However, I was just referring to the church. In reguards to religion, I don't firmly believe in anything man creates. Even the bible for instance, it's written by man, there's bound to be "mistakes" where someone exaggerated, changed references based on his personal opinion, or wrote a section based on his beliefs.

Sparrow, I'm a christian. I was raised in the Church of Christ here in the states. It's really a non-demoninational church. We're a lot less strict than what most people come to think of the Church of Christ. We're more liberal than other Church of Chirst congragations.
I agree with what you say mostly. Apart from the bible bit. I think the bible has been written exactly as God intended. For all our frailties we cant deviate from Gods plan whatever it may be. That isn't to say we don't have free choice before anyone tries to say that. Although, this is difficult to explain, but when you read the Greek and Hebrew translations you get a much better understanding of it.
I share nietzsches point of view on this and I find it quite remarkable that religion still even exists... ahh ... evolution happens slowly I guess