stupid hl2 water

[ValVed RaY]

ok i was thinking if the water in half life 2 will be dynamic
say, it is in a containder and you break the containder, will it spill out, and if so will it do it correctly... or will it just be shitty water like in half life 1?

 

[Dile]

Good question, but i think there's nothing to discuss.
We'll see that on 30th September.

 

[ValVed RaY]

i don't wanna waste my money if it doesn't have that feature

 

[Dile]

Well, that's not the only thing, that depends:- )
And i don't think so you'll not be satisfied even if that feature wasn't in :- )

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Originally posted by ValVed RaY
i don't wanna waste my money if it doesn't have that feature

But arent you the guy looking so forward to killing Alyx?
Besides if you wont buy a game without that, you are likely going to be waiting along time before they can create that effect realistically without faking it somehow.

 

[ValVed RaY]

=(
why so many g-man avatars??...

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Because hes cool. And mine has a sparrow on his shoulder only its hard to see because of the crappy picture.

 

[[Matt]]

eeeeejiot

 

[JunkieXL]

Originally posted by Dile
Well, that's not the only thing, that depends:- )
And i don't think so you'll not be satisfied even if that feature wasn't in :- )

=~~~~~~DDDDDDDDDD

 

[Dile]

Originally posted by :>~
=~~~~~~DDDDDDDDDD

Your name suits you:- )

 

[Hoju]

Ray, maybe you should join Valve and spend the next four years coding fluid dynamics for HL3. Have fun with that.

 

[Straylight]

Heres the only hint i've seen with respect to water. In the e3 vid (that isn't in the fileplanet movie) of the hydra attack when the combine is slamed down into the water there is a splash and stuff. However, in the teaser (the only non-cam movie we have) there is no splash.

I'm guessing this means that the water splashes and stuff are only particle effects and if they are it seems unlikely that it will flow out of a container and splash based on physics. It's probbly just a flat surface with a moving displacement map (like you see at the very begining of the first tech demo.)

-Straylight

 

[Tull91]

But if you take a look at this scan you can see that it LOOKS like a dynamic fluid, not just a texture on a flat surface (or whatever). Look at the ship side, doesnt seem flat to me

But what do I know? nothing really, especially when it comes to the technical stuff. We will find out sept 30th:bounce:

*EDIT* sorry i phucked up. forgot the picture:dork: it was to big....gonna trie to resize it though. Btw, it was the picture with the boat, when he holds the Crowbar and someone waving from the boat....

 

[h00dlum]

lol yeah if the water cant do that its not worth buying..

 

[EVIL]

lol.. I think it looks like the oild barrels in MOH:AA

But it would be awsome if they manage to pull the splashing whater off.. then you would be able to have a flood in a level

(a realistic flood)

 

[ValVed RaY]

drown alyx ?

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Drown everyone!

 

[dovoxove]

Originally posted by Farrowlesparrow
Drown everyone!

or kill your self by using an electrical weapon under-water.

 

[EVIL]

God.. I hope you get recoil damage from using electrical weapons under water!

 

[ValVed RaY]

they had that in opposing force

 

[SidewinderX]

if you have a few years of your lidfe to dedicate to coding fluid dynamics and then optomizing it so it cna run ons omehting slower than a CRAY, have fun. i wish you luck.

 

[EVIL]

thnx!

/me tries to create the thingy SidewinderX143 just said ;P

 

[EVIL]

Oo.. Starmonkey added a /*me feature.. w00t!!

Starmonkey.. you 0wn!

 

[SidewinderX]

/me love irc commands in forums!

/me wishes EVIL luck with his impossible task.

 

[ValVed RaY]

/me thinks that everyone will use the feature

 

[Apos]

Realistically splashing, flowing, dripping water is utterly impossible on even top-end current hardware. You'll get over it.

 

[ValVed RaY]

not really
they have volumentric and dynamic fog, why can't they make water like that

 

[Sparky the Fox]

because volumetric fog doesn't splash or flow?

 

[ValVed RaY]

games have water that splashes on the beach and it moves back and forth i think it is possible to do it.

 

[SidewinderX]

but thats scripted. the water will always splash on the beach ina certian way, its not that hard. but to make a fluid, something that has no definite shape, is extrealy hard. usally, water is jsut a texture that is applide to a flat surface. what you are saying is that water actaully exists and can be manipulated. that is impossibe with todays hardware and capabilities.

 

[Apos]

It's simply impossible. We aren't talking about visual effects, where you can just make an area have a certain transparency. We're talking about applying physics to a non-rigid object: indeed something that isn't even really a distinct, singular "object" at all, but is rather an almost infinately divisible conglomeration of particles held in shape by a surface tension. The system is HIGHLY chaotic (in terms of the math), and the requirements to calculate how it works are astronomical, even for a kludge. It just wouldn't look right unless it was specifically scripted for a very particular event.

 

[EVIL]

there are many personal test's of 3d animaters treying to simulate water.. these are mostly just dots. If it would be possible to change the dots into bones/joints and connect them with eachother and attach them to a high poly sphere. And the spychics would have a dynamic influence with the joint's/bones then you would be able to create a splash effect. and even streaming water etc.

this is just a creative guess

 

[talleyban]

:\

 

[Apos]

Even that doesn't work. Molecules of water don't stay in the same orientation: they can completely spin around each other. Joints would get twisted all out of whack just from one wave crashing. And when water splashes up against something, you'd get geometrical increases in the number of moving parts you'd have to be visually and physically simulating.

 

[ValVed RaY]

that's where the amd saturn 93 Ghz And Radeon 70kpro comes into play

 

[solace]

Apos is completely correct. Today's processing abilities don't allow us to calculate such things. Water would have to act like an 'object' with absolutely no set amount of polygons, bones, or shape.

I'm sure it's possible for a computer to calculate some sort of ripple effects in a pool of some sort, because that is more basic (but still very complex, especially when the ripples bounce back) physics.

Yea, I would NOT get my hopes up for such physics in ANY game ANY time in the near future...especially HL2 (even as amazing it's physics are going to be).

 

[solace]

By the way, when I said "I'm sure it's possible for a computer to calculate..." I didn't mean in a real-time game, I just ment a very fast CPU that is concentrating on the water calculations themselves.

 

[A_M]

This is NOT going to happen in a real-time game anytime soon. Geez, with all these people wanting games to perfectly simulate every aspect of real life, why don't you just go outside and break some jugs filled with water or whatever...

Well, on a more serious note, yes there have been attempts to simulate real fluid water (able to move in all three directions) in real-time. Usually done with particle systems (with pretty low particle density), and yes in theory you could use these particles to form volumes but this would be very CPU-hogging - definately nothing I'd expect to see in any professional game released anytime soon.

 

[A.A]

ANother stupid thread made by you, Valved Ray. And if that's why you buy games, then you can't have any games at all.

 

[caged]

I would be great if HL2 supported dynamic whater, then I didn't have to blow up the hoover damm (how you spell that? Ahh who cares). Water flowing trough a landscape (or building) looks great, altough HL2 won't support it.