The Big Unlocks Poll

[Shakermaker]

Since there is so much debate a poll seems in place. I'd personally like a hybrid like in Battlefield 2: a combination between points scored and achievements.

 

[kazsymonds]

Achievements.

Then anyone who want's to spend the weekend messing around with then new weapons can do so by using the unlocker.

There is no benefit to an unlock system at all, just give us the weapons, the TF2 community is well established, it knows what it wants.

The quicker you give the weapons to the grinders the quicker they will go.

They haven't thought thenew system through at all...

 

[Eejit]

The grinders go away this way too.

They obviously don't want to just give out the weapons, so this is the most hassle-free alternative.

 

[Gorgon]

Achievements

 

[Jintor]

Time played!

1 minute, new unlock!

2 minutes, new unlock!

4 minutes, new unlock!

8 minutes, new unlock!

So on, and so forth...

It'd be the worst system evrar!

 

[Operational]

I'm going to withhold final judgement on the new system until it's working as intended.

My current thinking is that I'm not sure if it's worth it. In the end only the rare items (currently the 9 cosmetic hats) will get traded. New players will have all the weapon unlocks within a couple of weeks of "average" time spent per day (most likely though they'll just be given everything by the people walking around with 5 Sandviches).

The biggest problem I think is something Valve plans to do but probably should have included from the start is the ability to influence what you get next.

 

[nurizeko]

Achievements, means every update for a short while you get to play a server with an over-abundance of one class which can be interesting of itself, players who want the new toys quickly can achievement server grind/unlock and the rest can do it the old fashioned way.


I really a struggling with Valves logic with this system, it doesn't make sense and it doesn't fit the game.

I am of the understanding its meant to get new players to join up but TF2 isn't a brand spanking new game and it isn't a cash-cow like WoW, I think giving the community what it wants is for the best. If Valve need income they should release a new game, like, Episode 3 for example. :stare:

 

[Eejit]

I'm considering deleting all the weapons I got previous to this update and seeing how the unlock system works from the perspective of someone with a new account

 

[jimbo118]

I think a points system as has been suggested by some. Get unlock points for kills/captures/defence etc but only allow unlock points on the vannila maps. I dunno if Valve could do that but it would keep players just going to an achievement server.

 

[Eejit]

No, it wouldn't. The farming maps would just be different.

 

[Adabiviak]

Other... although not sure what. Time played should be updated? I played for a fairly long time yesterday () and only got three items. Also, a number of heads are AFK as they sign up to a busy server and wait for unlocks to come their way while they go out for a sandwich.

 

[Jintor]

No, it wouldn't. The farming maps would just be different.

If you make a system that attempts to judge skill and worth, you get farming.

If you make a system that rewards stuff completely at random YOU STILL GET FARMING WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE WHY ARE THERE FULL ACHIEVEMENT SERVERS WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU IDIOTS

 

[Eejit]

Other... although not sure what. Time played should be updated? I played for a fairly long time yesterday () and only got three items. Also, a number of heads are AFK as they sign up to a busy server and wait for unlocks to come their way while they go out for a sandwich.

Three items in one day is a lot more than using the old system. Though less than abusing it.

 

[jimbo118]

No, it wouldn't. The farming maps would just be different.

Vanilla maps.

 

[Shakermaker]

Three items in one day is a lot more than using the old system. Though less than abusing it.

Depends. I got my three Medic unlocks on one night by just grinding the achievements. Same for the pyro. Couldn't be bothered to get the heavy unlocks and for the Scout I went to an achievement server (and felt bad about it so I quit after 20 mins or so).

I'd like any unlock system that just plain rewards me for doing a good job, i.e. killing many people, having kill streaks, healing a lot, transporting a lot of people, capping a lot (or defending caps), etc etc. A bit of randomness is okay (the hats for example), but it is too random at the moment.

 

[Eejit]

I'd like any unlock system that just plain rewards me for doing a good job, i.e. killing many people, having kill streaks, healing a lot, transporting a lot of people, capping a lot (or defending caps), etc etc. A bit of randomness is okay (the hats for example), but it is too random at the moment.

Valve don't want grinding, and they don't want to award weapons automatically. Suggest a better alternative.

 

[Shakermaker]

Valve don't want grinding, and they don't want to award weapons automatically. Suggest a better alternative.

You had to grind achievements because the requirements were outlandish. Kill 25 enemies while in the air or something. If you give points for simply doing a good job, the game would profit, because the only way to grind is to make sure that you win. The achievements encouraged solo play, but a point system would reward team play.

 

[Absinthe]

What is this problem with grinding servers and how has it affected you?

 

[Qonfused]

This game needs just a currency system. So many points based on in game activities (MVP, Most Healing, etc.), and then you take those points and purchase weapons. I don't understand how hard that is.

 

[Shakermaker]

This game needs just a currency system. So many points based on in game activities (MVP, Most Healing, etc.), and then you take those points and purchase weapons. I don't understand how hard that is.

Exactly. I fully concur.

 

[Absinthe]

This game needs just a currency system. So many points based on in game activities (MVP, Most Healing, etc.), and then you take those points and purchase weapons. I don't understand how hard that is.

This. Fully.

I don't know why Valve is tackling this in such a roundabout way.

 

[Eejit]

Am I talking to myself? Valve don't want grinding. They don't want to award weapons instantly. This is how they avoid both.

 

[Shakermaker]

Am I talking to myself? Valve don't want grinding. They don't want to award weapons instantly. This is how they avoid both.

And that's clearly not what the player base wants. So lets formulate an alternative.

 

[Eejit]

Nope, this one is fine.

 

[Absinthe]

Am I talking to myself? Valve don't want grinding. They don't want to award weapons instantly. This is how they avoid both.

Again, what's wrong with the grinding?

Tying the unlocks to score points or a currency derived from kills/captures flows well with natural gameplay. I understand that Valve doesn't want grinding to be necessary for the items, but it was done primarily because the achievements were a pain in the ass. Most people aren't going to bother grinding if the game is already regularly rewarding them fairly and consistently, which is what a currency system would accomplish.

If some people still want to jump on a custom map and run between control points to get the Ambassador, why should anybody care?

 

[Eejit]

Grinding isn't something Valve want in their game, what's wrong with that?

 

[Absinthe]

Yes... I acknowledged that in my post. Now will you explain why grinding in and of itself is so horrendous?

In the alternative system I proposed, grinding would be completely optional. You would be consistently and visibly working towards the new items with a currency system that rewards you for playing the game naturally.

The problem with the previous updates was that they made people default to grinding for difficult and situational achievements. If you could use your points accumulated from kills and captures towards purchasing the new weapons, there would be no grinding. The speed at which you acquire them would be directly dependent on how well you play the game. You would be consistently rewarded for playing it as intended.

Which brings me back to the argument you (or somebody) made: That you could still grind points on custom maps. Why should this matter? It has no effect on the vanilla game modes and maps that everybody else would be playing on.

 

[Viperidae]

Should be done by kills or (previous) hours played. It's insulting to have played Spy for 60 hours but not get unlocks because I didn't get a good server roll.

 

[Eejit]

Yes... I acknowledged that in my post. Now will you explain why grinding in and of itself is so horrendous?

I guess Valve don't want to see the game they've put so much time, effort and care into turn into a chore.

And viper get over yourself, the world don't owe you anything

 

[Viperidae]

Actually, Valve does. Seeing as all they're trying to do is get more people to play longer, I've already fulfilled that duty over and over. Hell I've got people to buy this game based on my recommendation. And stop pretending the user has no say, it's getting old.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

And stop pretending the user has no say, it's getting old.

Agreed.

 

[Eejit]

Actually, Valve does. Seeing as all they're trying to do is get more people to play longer, I've already fulfilled that duty over and over. Hell I've got people to buy this game based on my recommendation. And stop pretending the user has no say, it's getting old.

If you have played a lot and like playing what's the problem with continuing to play?
And I was referring more to your complaint that random chance didn't favour you, anyway.

 

[Viperidae]

Because technically I could play another 30 hours and still not get them. That's not fun. None of this is fun. All anybody wants to do is use the unlocks.

 

[Qonfused]

Am I talking to myself? Valve don't want grinding. They don't want to award weapons instantly. This is how they avoid both.

Playing for hours and hours waiting for a random drops seems like grinding to me. At least with a currency/point system, the player would have at least a little control over what is actually unlocked.

 

[Eejit]

Grinding is doing something you normally wouldn't. Playing the same as usual ignoring unlocks is not grinding.

 

[Viperidae]

Grinding is doing something you normally wouldn't.

Wrong by definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind_(gaming)

 

[Eejit]

Er, not really. Doing the same thing over and over again is something you normally wouldn't do. The current system is without grind as you don't have to do anything other than play as you would otherwise.

 

[Viperidae]

Killing monsters over and over again is something you do in mmos. The keyword here is monotony. It's not fun to do it merely for the sake of getting a single weapon or a single level. In the same manner, playing for hours or specing for hours for the mere purpose of getting unlocks isn't fun.

 

[Eejit]

What the hell are you talking about? You don't need to do anything to get the unlocks you wouldn't normally do while playing TF2. How in hell is that monotonous?

 

[Viperidae]

Apparently this is hard to fathom. I'm grinding by playing ridiculous amounts because I'm hoping that I'll get a good roll during one of these 4 hour periods during which I normally wouldn't be playing. It's monotonous.

But Valve are geniuses, obviously. I mean you've already got some new unlocks! Valve rocks!