US gunship kills civilians/reuters journalists, then fires upon makeshift ambulance

CptStern

CptStern

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there's a video:

http://twitter.com/wikiLeaks

5th April 2010 10:44 EST WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.

Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.
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http://collateralmurder.com/
 
This is Vietnam bullshit that the US military shouldn't be doing again. Hopefully prosecutions will follow this and compensation and apologies issued to those effected.
 
The absolute ****in shameless murdering ****S.


That pisses me off. :flame:

"They got weapons" IT'S ****ING IRAQ U BLOODY TWAT EVERYONE HAS WEAPONS.

Blood thirsty good for nothing pricks.

Hope the crew of that gunship get absolutely ****ing chewed out, they'll probably get off scot-free or with a tap on the wrist but one can hope.

Why the hell does America keep asking why half the world hates it and the other half keep criticising its conduct?


YO, LOOK THERE ****NUTS, THAT, THAT RIGHT THERE IS WHY PEOPLE DON'T LIKE YOU.


*sigh*




Nah seriously though, It's disgusting that Bush and Blair's stupid little crusade is still causing needless deaths like this after they are both out of office.

It's friggin stupid.
 
Gads. How revolting. I REALLY WISH we would just GTFO of Iraq and Afghanistan and the rest of the countries with whom we are ****ing currently. Ugh.
 
the US as a policy doesnt really care about civilian deaths:

American and NATO troops firing from passing convoys and military checkpoints have killed 30 Afghans and wounded 80 others since last summer, but in no instance did the victims prove to be a danger to troops, according to military officials in Kabul.

And what is the paperâ??s authority for this astounding admission of atrocity? Not the usual â??unnamed sourcesâ? or â??senior official in a position to have knowledge of the situation,â? but none other than Obamaâ??s hand-picked commander on the Af-Pak front, General Stanley â??Black Opsâ? McChrystal his own self:

â??We have shot an amazing number of people, but to my knowledge, none has ever proven to be a threat,â? said Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, who became the senior American and NATO commander in Afghanistan last year. His comments came during a recent videoconference to answer questions from troops in the field about civilian casualties.
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odd that during peacetime and without the tiny american flag sewed to their shirts this would be considered mass murder

http://therearenosunglasses.wordpre...-american-commander-admits-afghan-atrocities/
 
Just watched this. Prompted my first post in the politics section.

Goddamn, two kids in the van...this is so mindless it's reminiscent of a video game.
 
They thought their cameras/bags etc were aks? Wow.
 
i now have a headache from this. its truly sickening. i know in war civilians get killed on accident but this was no accident. i would call it murder. killing is one thing, but murder is the worst thing you can do and these men should be made an example of. i personally think they should be dropped off at that neighborhood with no weapons or food blindfolded and see how long they last. ****ing douchbags
 
jimbo118 said:
They thought their cameras/laptop bags etc were aks? Wow.
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ya I can understand if it were journalists doing the idenitying ...

guide_to_firearms_tfb-tfb5.jpg
 
They're all murderers. This video is only showing a small part of the war. They kill civilians without any warning: women, children, they just don't care.
 
Well first of all I can't condone the actions that took place in this video or the war itself for that matter, bujt I have watched it twice now as closely as possible. I believe that the gunner was justified in believing that all of the individuals were armed because the camera strap from the photographers' cameras was visibly similar to that of a standard weapon. Also, it appeared to me that other individuals in the group were holding small arms weapons. The "RPG" the gunner saw was the extended lens of the camera and while this does not look like any particular weapon, once the mindset of "these guys are armed" had occured, it wasn't impossible to fathom they had an RPG. It is true that they should have taken more time to identify their targets, but I don't think the resolution of the Apache's gun camera from that range would have allowed them to discern the guys with cameras from the guys with guns. After they had established weapons were there, everything went as it would in any other situation.

What I can't possibly justify even with the farthest reaches of my imagination is why they would fire on an obvious medical vehicle. It's against the Geneva convention to fire upon medical vehicles or personnel attending to wounded. It's considered a war crime. Of course, there are two things that make this not apply. This is not officially declared a war and the vehicle is not marked as a medical vehicle. Even so, the individuals that came from it were not armed and not posing a threat. There are no circumstances in the US military where engaging is justified.

As for the children, while that makes this much worse, they were less visible than any of the cameras or weapons in the scope of the event. You couldn't even tell they were children when the video was slowed down and it was pointed out, they just appear to be a shape in the front seat. They were also not the focus of the gunner as he was looking at the individuals helping the wounded cameraman (just as I was).

I think the actions weren't anything out of the ordinary for standard Apache gunship procedure up until the van approached. Had these two individuals had weapons and not cameras, this whole thing would have never surfaced in any light despite the children being wounded and the medical vehicle being attacked. The fact of the matter is, the gunner's video through the gun scope was not sufficient to differentiate the strap of a camera from the strap of a gun. The others holding guns contributed as well. I'm sure if they had the time to scrutinize their video as we and the media have, they'd be able to come to a conclusion that those cameras are not weapons, but when you're under the impression someone has a weapon that could kill you and is ready to do so, you don't have the time to sit and try to figure it out. I'm sure had there been an RPG, we'd get the news of an American Apache helicopters shot down.

No one wins in war. We don't need to be doing this.
 
I'm sure this type of stuff happens everyday. People dont really give a damn until they see real footage.
 
And then they stop giving a damn about 10 minutes later when they're distracted by something else.
 
This is a pretty ****ed up situation and I think...


lol I just watched that headbanging vid in your sig again, good times.
 
This video truly made me sick. They were literally laughing when they fired on that vehicle. And after they found that they had hit kids they had the nerve to blame it on the victims. Absolutely insane. I hope this gets widespread attention, the military streight up lied and tried to cover this up. But considering the current CNN main page has Tiger Woods and the iPad as the lead story I'm guessing this wont even be mentioned in the main stream media here in the states.
 
The reality is that nobody DOES give a damn when this happens everyday, because this footage never makes the news.

The first image I ever saw that made me think was a picture of a US soldier lying dead on a paved road. Just lying on his side, facing away from the camera, his gun lying behind him, and a dark pool around his head. Shot was taken at eye-level so couldnt really see much else.

And it really pissed me off that images like these, ie the TRUTH, never get released to the public without a fight.

Sure there ARE videos like this and images around the web, but most people, the ants/drones, dont spend their evenings trawling around the web looking for dead bodies.

I had some serious flashbacks to Modern Warfare.

''Thats a kill''.
''Ooooooh''
''Haha''
etc etc

I played that level and thought 'thats messed up what theyre saying, but I doubt theyre like that in real life'.

But no, BBC World, CNN, AlJazeera etc are too focused on cats stuck in ***king trees, the odd earthquake here and there, stuff that doesnt REALLY matter. (That sounds harsh and all, but earthquakes and alike, any form of natural disaster just makes me shrug and think 'well we cant control that so..tough **it').

Its stuff like THIS that needs to be covered.

Its all out there. 100% proof of murder, right there, and ***k all will be done. Some southern General will give those boys a slap on the back, say they did a good job, and sneak them a crate of beers to celebrate.
 
For every step we take closer to ending the war on terror we take ten steps back because of damn idiots like these. This is the talibans wet dream. The number of innocents killed in the article posted by stern do not suprise me at all. How can we ever hope to achieve anything if the American military does not rethink what it is doing.

There use of shock and awe tactics need to be thrown out of the window. They need to train there people to have more finesse and use precision and this would help there objectives greatly. This would have prevented many previous incidents were innocents were killed. This incident in particular was disgusting. If those were British solidiers this would not have happened. The Americans solution to everything is to just shoot everthing that moves. No wonder everyone hates them.
 
Dynasty said:
Its all out there. 100% proof of murder, right there, and ***k all will be done. Some southern General will give those boys a slap on the back, say they did a good job, and sneak them a crate of beers to celebrate.
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I just don't see how this can be called murder any differently than cops shooting a guy who has a fake gun. I mean I agree that no firing was justified after the initial attack (aka the van attack), but attacked armed individuals to ensure your safety and the safety of others is justified. There are probably much more clear cut cases of murder in this war than not properly identifying every object a group of people are carrying. Yet I am apt to believe that more allied soldiers were saved by quick reactions to apparent danger than would be if every similar situation had taken as much time as necessary to fully identify every aspect of the engagement.

So you have to decide whether it's better to potentially sacrifice more of your country's soldiers to prevent unnecessary casualties. Certainly a tough call to make.

As for the whole general beer crate thing... I don't know what to say except that you have an interesting imagination.
 
"Come on buddy, all you gotta do is pick up a weapon"

Disgusting ****ing pricks.
 
StarBob said:
So you have to decide whether it's better to potentially sacrifice more of your country's soldiers to prevent unnecessary casualties. Certainly a tough call to make.
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Soldier who are paid and trained to be in combat, or unaware civilians? I don't really think its that tough a call. Spend a few extra minutes to identify targets with certainty, and just tell the ground troops to be aware of the potential hostiles.

I think calling this murder is a bit of a stretch, but they certainly are at fault for not even bothering to make sure their assumptions were correct and should be held accountable.

The biggest thing that upsets me the most is how detached from the killing the gunners/pilots were. I mean, I always knew it was an inhumanly detached way of killing people, but its so casual. It really just sounds like a couple video gamers playing a game while sitting on their couch and casually making jokes about their kills. Even if they are terrorists, taking lives should not be so laid back and restful. And there should be some damn modesty and respect for the fact that they are killing people.
 
StarBob said:
I just don't see how this can be called murder any differently than cops shooting a guy who has a fake gun. I mean I agree that no firing was justified after the initial attack (aka the van attack), but attacked armed individuals to ensure your safety and the safety of others is justified. There are probably much more clear cut cases of murder in this war than not properly identifying every object a group of people are carrying. Yet I am apt to believe that more allied soldiers were saved by quick reactions to apparent danger than would be if every similar situation had taken as much time as necessary to fully identify every aspect of the engagement.

So you have to decide whether it's better to potentially sacrifice more of your country's soldiers to prevent unnecessary casualties. Certainly a tough call to make.

As for the whole general beer crate thing... I don't know what to say except that you have an interesting imagination.
Click to expand...

It is absolutely insane to be making life and death decisions a mile away from a helicopter. Even if you want to glance over that fact there was absolutely no justification for shooting up the van that saw people dead or injured on the ground and tried to help. Absolutely NONE. It is murder, plain and simple. Then to try and justify it by saying "their fault, shouldn't have brough their kids to a fight" makes you a absolute psychopath. Who the **** almost kills (or does kill, we dont really know and I dont know how they could have survived that) 2 little children and then says some stupid shit like that.
 
Krynn72 said:
Soldier who are paid and trained to be in combat, or unaware civilians? I don't really think its that tough a call. Spend a few extra minutes to identify targets with certainty, and just tell the ground troops to be aware of the potential hostiles.

I think calling this murder is a bit of a stretch, but they certainly are at fault for not even bothering to make sure their assumptions were correct and should be held accountable.

The biggest thing that upsets me the most is how detached from the killing the gunners/pilots were. I mean, I always knew it was an inhumanly detached way of killing people, but its so casual. It really just sounds like a couple video gamers playing a game while sitting on their couch and casually making jokes about their kills. Even if they are terrorists, taking lives should not be so laid back and restful. And there should be some damn modesty and respect for the fact that they are killing people.
Click to expand...

It is true that they should have taken more time to identify the validity of their targets, but at the same time if that was an RPG and they hesitated only the few seconds it takes to take aim and fire it, they would have put their lives in danger just as well. That's for them to figure out and the chain of command to be aware of. That couldn't fire without orders to fire based upon their oberservations.

I think they reason they are capable of such a disconnect is two fold. First, for years the military has trained soldiers to better deal with the psychological aspects of war more efficiently to the point of near brainwash. Psychological issues can turn a common soldier into a wimpering baby or a raging psychopath in a heartbeat. It is, however, very scary to see their disconnect... Also, they no doubt deal with situations like this quite often and have seen the results. This is probably one instant in a chain of possibly dozens. Not to mention they have the disconnect of a video representation of people thousands of yards away.

I guess the other people bashing me haven't really read the post saying they not every aspect of this engagement was justified. I guess that taking a piece of what I said and acknowledging that I am an American is grounds to make it sound like I'm your average idiot backing up the actions of the miltary of the country I live in.

I don't care to repeat all of it, but I'm sure you can look back and see that I only agree with the attack of people that potentially pose a threat, just as I support the use of force with police officers to secure their lives and the lives of others when they believe life is at stake, and that's entirely domestic. I see it in the same light and I can't openly say that it would be better to risk the lives of Americans to prevent casualties. I don't want innocent people to die... but I don't want my friends and family to die just a little bit more.

But you don't fire on clearly unarmed medical individuals. You don't fire on armed medical individuals unless they are attacking you directly. These are rules set by the Geneva convention and they should apply here despite the lack of medical indicators on the vehicle. The important part to consider is that it was clearly not a military vehicle. Being a war crime the officers involved in securing orders to fire should be court martialed for war crimes. Potentially the gunner should as well for incorrectly stating the intention of the vehicle and it's occupants as "collecting weapons" in addition to bodies, when at the time they had only picked up the sole wounded survivor.
 
StarBob said:
It is true that they should have taken more time to identify the validity of their targets, but at the same time if that was an RPG and they hesitated only the few seconds it takes to take aim and fire it, they would have put their lives in danger just as well. That's for them to figure out and the chain of command to be aware of. That couldn't fire without orders to fire based upon their oberservations.
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What in the world are you basing this on? As far as I can tell the team on the groun this gunship was supporting was miles away, I am judging that based on how long it took them to get there. So why are you making the assumption that any of their troops were in danger?
 
Man the government should have done a better job covering this up.
 
I don't remember if it was in the video or on the site, but the Apaches were sent in response to small arms fire. Leaving a group of individuals presumed armed and capable of ambushing or moving to assault the troops on the ground or the helicopters themselves. The real question is how you could assume that in hostile territory you could ever presume you aren't in some level of danger? I mean when you have people armed with weapons (or what you believe are weapons) and that may wish to kill you, thinking you're not in danger would be a pretty reckless move.
 
Nobody is saying you shouldn't be alert. But there is no excuse for what they did. Again, you keep implying this group was some kind of threat. Threat to who? Certainly not to the apache flying high up a mile or so away (Im pulling a mile out of my ass, seems reasonable enough from the video). The group troops are many more miles away. So who was this group such a threat to that they couldn't get any more information before killing all of them?
 
Dynasty said:
Some southern General will give those boys a slap on the back, say they did a good job, and sneak them a crate of beers to celebrate.
Click to expand...

Why does he have to be southern... :|
 
It's stuff like this that make me really question my support for the coalitions involvement in Iraq.
 
What I find repulsive is the "guilty until proven innocent" approach. What, you fire upon targets without confirmation that they're hostile?

I hope the pilots get dishonourably discharged for this war crime.
 
Actually, the point was "300k sold iPads are apparently more important than proof of US' involvement in the death of civilians, including international journalists".
 
CNN is finally covering it on TV. But of course, they're refusing to show what happens when the shots are fired.

EDIT:...and their coverage lasted about 2 minutes. Reddit is going nuts over this right now.
HFJ4E.jpg
 
"Not an execution in my opinion."
They fired on unarmed wounded people.

It's no different than walking around a battlefield shooting the wounded in the head.
 
Tagaziel said:
Actually, the point was "300k sold iPads are apparently more important than proof of US' involvement in the death of civilians, including international journalists".
Click to expand...
@_@ Is there a smiley I could use in the future that immediate denotes sarcasm?
 
Swedish news sites are reporting it now and are also showing uncensored parts of the actual shooting and killing, unlike other news sites that just talks about it with a few screencaps.
 
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