Who controlled Nihilanth

[Jandor]

Who controlled Nihilanth at the end of HL1?

 

[Asknoone]

Either controllers, or other. He did have shackles on, mumbled about slaves and looked pretty weary. I'm guessing he was there for teleportation but Laidlaw did refer to it as "Nihilanth race"

 

[Laivasse]

I say Nihilanth. To all intents andpurposes. He might have had a highly restricted prisoner-like role like a queen termite or whatever, but at the same time he wasn't being mind controlled - if you're being mind controlled you don't say "We are slaves", just how Overwatch don't scream "we can't control ourselves!".

And the controllers seemed too much like lackeys to me to be in full charge so...I say he pretty much had free reign.

 

[Marx! II]

I always figured the shackles were a different sort, the kind that send.

 

[kupocake]

My Guesses: Nihlianth directly in charge of the Slaves and Grunts. Also in charge of the Controllers, but they had free-will. Nihlianth however was compromised by the Combine who ruled over them all.

 

[Edcrab]

I'd agree with kupoartist's theory, personally- why do many people seem to think the Controllers had any sort of hold on Nihilanth? It seems even more ludicrous than any Xen/Combine idea, as there's even less evidence than usual to support it.

 

[Asknoone]

I'm doubting the Controllers were in charge of him, actually...Bleh, I give up

 

[Jandor]

I say Nihilanth. To all intents andpurposes. He might have had a highly restricted prisoner-like role like a queen termite or whatever, but at the same time he wasn't being mind controlled - if you're being mind controlled you don't say "We are slaves", just how Overwatch don't scream "we can't control ourselves!".

And the controllers seemed too much like lackeys to me to be in full charge so...I say he pretty much had free reign.

I like it.

 

[kelvini]

g-man!he could teleport here to there...after all,nihalnalith(i forgot how to spell his name)talked!i forgot what he said but there was a tread on this nihalnalith guy talking...so g-man.

 

[$kelet0r]

combine

 

[eber]

I'd agree with kupoartist's theory, personally- why do many people seem to think the Controllers had any sort of hold on Nihilanth? It seems even more ludicrous than any Xen/Combine idea, as there's even less evidence than usual to support it.

theres also no reason to believe that "xen were under combine control-theory"!

 

[Edcrab]

Yes there is- sort of- although personally I'm not convinced either way. My point was that at least both sides of that argument had a handful of vagaries to refer to, while the Controllers-controlling-Nihilanth idea seems to be based entirely on their name. Which is just daft.

Napoleon: These men are my finest commanders!

Other guy: Oh, so they command you?

Napoleon: WTF?

 

[eber]

why else are they called controllers , well i admit they maybe just control the vortigaunts and alien grunts. well whatever imo there are just 2 ways.
1. controllers control nihilanth but he has still a free mind and can make free decisions.
2. nihilanth has full control over everything (which is most unlikely since he sais "we are their slaves", plus he has collars and stuff).

 

[kupocake]

"we are their slaves", plus he has collars and stuff).

That is more often interpreted as a reference to the combine of course, though the whole HL story is a ballpark of equally valid ideas until sequels start to clear it all up...

 

[Pai-Mei]

I don't believe that the controllers had any amount of direct mind-control over the Nihilanth, but I do believe that he was their "pet" or "tool" to control the rest of the Xen.

..if you're being mind controlled you don't say "We are slaves", just how Overwatch don't scream "we can't control ourselves!".

You're absolutly right.

When I say control in my theory, I use the term very loosely. For instance, you control your computer. If you're an evil scientist, you may even control someone else... like issuing orders to a Frankenstein monster or even issuing orders to a gigantic brain to enslave humanity. You're not directly controlling how either one accomplishes its taskes, but for one reason or another, they have no choice but to obey you.

That's how I feel the heirarchy of Xen is made up. The controllers are all "free," but operate on some kinda of 'Controllortessence' and through that, issue commands to the Nihilanth. The Nihilanth directly controls the Vortessence and thereby directly controls each Vortigaunt and alien Grunt, at least when he is alive.

I believe this because the controllers do not wear Shackels but they do wear loinclothes; they just seem to be the dominant sentient race on Xen and... I guess just don't like the idea of them being controlled. Plus, Nihilanth does say "Slaves... we are their... slaves" meaning that he is a slave... somehow. And I am NOT about to start believing that the Combine or the G-Man were in control of him.

Napoleon: These men are my finest commanders!

Other guy: Oh, so they command you?

Napoleon: WTF?

I like it!

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I could write a page long essay, but I've had a bit to drink and can't be assed. Just look at Pai-Mei's post for my opinions.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[ríomhaire]

the 6 who voted Nihilanth are disregarding facts.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The several who voted Combine are easily brainwashed by pretty web-pages

-Angry Lawyer

 

[ríomhaire]

The several who voted Controler are easily brainwashed by crafty lawyers.

As I have said (many times) before I came to the conclustion myself

 

[Edcrab]

I really don't buy the Nihilanth= Controller lackey hypothesis. But I can see him acting like the Chairman at a commitee meeting- the council of controllers pass judgement and he merely makes the Vorts do their bidding, or opens portals or something.

Although he's just as likely to be a dictator or a Combine puppet. Or somehow all three. I just don't know.

 

[ríomhaire]

I think combine control Nihilanth and controlers.
Nihilanth controls vorts.
Controlers act as the invasion forces officers.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I don't specifically know what he is. We know he's a puppet, but I just refuse to believe it's the Combine controlling him. The methods seem far too different.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Edcrab]

And yet he wouldn't say "we are their slaves" if he was referring to his singular domination by the Controllers. That's the one glaring hole in certain no-Combine-on-Xen theories if you ask me- hell, I'd sooner believe the G-man of all people was pulling his strings rather than a bunch of floating gits...

 

[Angry Lawyer]

You forget, "We" could mean him and the Vortigaunts, as he's often stated to be linked mentally to them, especially in the Vortigaunt quotes.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Edcrab]

Ah, quite true. Possible he is a Controller creation existing purely to strengthen their hold on the Vortigaunts, but I still see him as a bit more directive than that. I.e., possessing some sort of command significance.

 

[kupocake]

but I just refuse to believe it's the Combine controlling him. The methods seem far too different.

The Combine are all about using different methods. Just as their armies have many different races amongst them, giving them many different combinations of invasion methods, their methods of enslaving races could be just as flexible to the races needed. In the case of humanity, its using the time-honoured method of a single sleeze-bag spouting rhetoric to subdue a force. Vortiguants are not humans - why use the same methods when a different approach is probably more effective?

 

[Marx! II]

Supposing the Nihilanth is a creation of the controllers, who are of a hive mind?
Supposing he is one of them, altered so as to be able to manifest teleports at will, shackled to keep from going out of control, eyes and mouth effectively burnt away?
He is in effect a slave, made manifest by the will of the controllers, more a tool than anything else.
Just a thought.

 

[eber]

well ,im weary of the unlogical arguments of the combine/xen-theory supporters . i dont think it is possible to convince them just with evidence from the original games and good arguments. ill go further, just play "point of view" . its no official expansion but it includes the original storyline! all relationships between the aliens are told there.if you read the vortigaunts mind , you will see what the real story of them is, and it just fits with everything that pai mai and laivasse said that far. :cheese:

 

[WacK]

think it was the G-man

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The Combine are all about using different methods. Just as their armies have many different races amongst them, giving them many different combinations of invasion methods, their methods of enslaving races could be just as flexible to the races needed. In the case of humanity, its using the time-honoured method of a single sleeze-bag spouting rhetoric to subdue a force. Vortiguants are not humans - why use the same methods when a different approach is probably more effective?

Because of efficiency? Notice how you can easily identify Combine things in Half Life 2 - their technology is consistent through their tools. The Pulse rifles they created for humans to hold fire the same projectiles as the Gunships, and other whatnot. Recurrant themes Valve included so you could actually identify them as Combine. It seems pretty wasteful to go and pick out specific things to wipe out a race and use nothing else, rather I'd say they take the best parts of each race and move on.

Now, why wouldn't pulse rifle technology have been included on anything in Xen? And where are the Synth? And where is the trademark black-metal they use on everything? If they HAD been to Xen, they'd have brought with them some Controllers, for their maneuverability, and some Grunts, for their brute strength.

Also note how that 90% of Combine items are branded. Look at them closely - they have a Combine seal on them, especially the military units. Nothing on Xen has markings to state who they belong to.

Finally, take into account the Gonarch. In HL1, the Xenians obviously used headcrabs to their advantage, and had a free-roaming Gonarch on their world. In HL2 (at least, from some of the stuff that was cut), there's a Gonarch sack attached to a Combine machine. The Combine love their efficiency - they only keep alive the most useful part.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[kupocake]

The Reoccuring themes mean nothing - The Combine are a vast interstellar empire. The reoccurences are because the Earth is a single place. Plasma guns are overused why? Because they've been proven to be the most effective tools in Earth's conditions against Earth's population. Elsewhere, the Combine may rely on something else. Futhermore, the plasma weapons could well be - in fact are very likely to be - weapons created by Humans.

The lack of presence of what we know as Combine tools and methods on Xen is simple. Xen isn't Earth. They've adapted their attacks and their method of control for Xen - Here it is imposing, stamping architectural styles and logos on everything. Perhaps it was judged that the domination of Xen needed to be less Overt? Perhaps they didn't have to invade Xen, but operate like a secret, illuminati-esque society that pulled the strings from behind the scenes? At the end of the day, so long as they have absolute control, it matters not what method they use.

That and the fact that the combine existed as a cloudy concept at best in HL1 times. That works for either theory - For you it means that the Combine didn't enter into the Half-Life 1 world so they couldn't have possibly been there. For me, it means that the "design language" that is so overt in Half-Life 2 was never created, because they were just going to add the real puppet-masters in the later game.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

That and the fact that the combine existed as a cloudy concept at best in HL1 times. That works for either theory - For you it means that the Combine didn't enter into the Half-Life 1 world so they couldn't have possibly been there. For me, it means that the "design language" that is so overt in Half-Life 2 was never created, because they were just going to add the real puppet-masters in the later game.

Now this is a point I agree with, partly. But I do also believe it supports my side more. If Valve wanted to make the connection, would they not have based a lot of the Combine things on something Xenian, to coax players into believing the connection?
And I think the Gonarch sack in the Combine grid is the ultimate thing that seperates the two. It's as if Valve deliberately created it to show the vast differences between the two species. Such a shame it was cut.

And anyway, in a fiction sense - the universe is a huge place, with a lot of dimensions. There's enough space for an infinite number of races, each one a huge distant apart, never having met each other. The idea of the Combine controlling Xen, and controlling Race X smacks to me of "Earth is the centre of the universe!" thinking. People who just can't accept that not everything is intrinsically linked.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[kupocake]

The idea of the Combine controlling Xen, and controlling Race X smacks to me of "Earth is the centre of the universe!" thinking. People who just can't accept that not everything is intrinsically linked.

I personally think along those lines because of Breen. As BM's Administrator, he caused the Xen invasion due to the sample - it just seems too coincidental that he is the one responsible for the Earth Shattering Portal Storms as well as the one who negotiated "Peace" with the combine. It has always (well, since HL2) seemed to me that he caused the Resonance Cascade under Combine influence.

Xen surely must therefore bare some relation to the Combine... whether Xen is under their control or something quite the opposite: for instance, perhaps the Combine invasion was impossible unless the Borderworld "race" - enemies of the Combine - fell. That'd certainly be a favourable interpretation for anyone who thinks that the G-Man is a combine lacky of some sort...

Edit: And I personally think that Race-X are just "another" race who rode the portal storms and started their own invasion. They seem to lack any indication of the Combine as some kind of guiding hand and are just "there".

 

[ríomhaire]

I think Nihilanth is the natural Lord of the controlers. He is one of a long line of lords "the last, I am the last"

 

[eber]

yes i also think hes the last of a long line of lords. i wonder why his race was dying!
and how could the controllers get control of him? and also , why did they give him a third arm lol.

 

[Jandor]

I personally think along those lines because of Breen. As BM's Administrator, he caused the Xen invasion due to the sample - it just seems too coincidental that he is the one responsible for the Earth Shattering Portal Storms as well as the one who negotiated "Peace" with the combine. It has always (well, since HL2) seemed to me that he caused the Resonance Cascade under Combine influence.

Accident, G-Man, Gordon pushing to soon.

Anything. why the Combine?

Because Breen is in charge, he's one of a very few number of important people left, as the U.N. is destroyed. Which is probably where our useless world leaders went to organize a resistance, however in those seven hours they couldn't even decide upon whether to keep the blue hats, or let the armies use there own hats .

Xen surely must therefore bare some relation to the Combine... whether Xen is under their control or something quite the opposite: for instance, perhaps the Combine invasion was impossible unless the Borderworld "race" - enemies of the Combine - fell. That'd certainly be a favourable interpretation for anyone who thinks that the G-Man is a combine lacky of some sort...

The complete lack of understanding on how to use the borderworld tells me that the Combine hadn't conquered, or even knew of, Xen.

Edit: And I personally think that Race-X are just "another" race who rode the portal storms and started their own invasion. They seem to lack any indication of the Combine as some kind of guiding hand and are just "there".

Why can't the Combine be a race that are just "there", at the right time, in the right place.

 

[kupocake]

Accident, G-Man, Gordon pushing to soon.

Anything. why the Combine?

It seems fairly explicit that the then ghostly "Administrator" was tampering with the experiment. He was adamant it went ahead, he insisted on the use of a very rare sample and he demanded that the anti-mass-spectrometer was pushed past its limits. It seems unlikely it was an Accident and the G-Man's role in it all is an irrelevence. Why the combine? Because Breen made that cascade happen and it seems too odd that he ended up at the top of the pile in the nice office when the Combine did get here.

Because Breen is in charge, he's one of a very few number of important people left, as the U.N. is destroyed. Which is probably where our useless world leaders went to organize a resistance, however in those seven hours they couldn't even decide upon whether to keep the blue hats, or let the armies use there own hats

Breen has no power. He just owns a private but massive research institute - no global power. The only way he could have had power is if he'd been in with the Combine all along.

The complete lack of understanding on how to use the borderworld tells me that the Combine hadn't conquered, or even knew of, Xen.

What complete lack of understanding? Where is it said they're out of their depth - they only apparenly lack knowledge of the techniques that Kliener had recently developed in HL2.

Why can't the Combine be a race that are just "there", at the right time, in the right place.

No reason, other than it makes them far more exciting and dangerous if they've been covertly orchestrating the whole thing as opposed to just suddenly noticing us and going "ooh, Shiny!"

 

[Jandor]

What complete lack of understanding? Where is it said they're out of their depth - they only apparenly lack knowledge of the techniques that Kliener had recently developed in HL2.

How come they can't locally teleport then? That seems like a complete lack of understanding to me.

Breen has no power. He just owns a private but massive research institute - no global power. The only way he could have had power is if he'd been in with the Combine all along.

My mistake, I was under the impression he had been delcared Administrator of Earth.

 

[Laivasse]

It seems fairly explicit that the then ghostly "Administrator" was tampering with the experiment. He was adamant it went ahead, he insisted on the use of a very rare sample and he demanded that the anti-mass-spectrometer was pushed past its limits. It seems unlikely it was an Accident and the G-Man's role in it all is an irrelevence. Why the combine? Because Breen made that cascade happen and it seems too odd that he ended up at the top of the pile in the nice office when the Combine did get here.

I think it fits well with Breen's character that he pushed for the experiment simply due to his greed for results. Fame for having first dibs on Xen aliens, the "questionable ethics" of abduction and experimentation - these all seem like pretty Breen-ey things to me. Breen's not a guy that would let whiners and naysayers get in the way of a big experiment like the one that caused the resonance cascade - greed for results could well be what sealed it. The only real mention of him in the first game is that he "just wouldn't listen".

All the while Gman was pushing for it behind the scenes - he's the one who wanted the cascade to happen IMO. Perhaps GMan was even feeding misinformation to Breen, which would account for how Breen seems to know about his existence.

Then come the portal storms and Earth gets ruined by Xen aliens - Breen was the head of a government facility that had experience of these creatures, so it makes sense that he'd have some authority in knowing about how to deal with them. In Eli's lab, near the bottom left of all the clippings is one saying something like "Former Black Mesa Admin Made Head of Human Affairs Bureau" - to me this says that Breen became the equivalent of some kind of "Xen Aliens Consultant to the UN" or suchlike in the period following Black Mesa. Then when the Combine turn up it would be natural for Breen, as the extraterrestrials boffin, to be the one chosen to broker a peace with them - something he did with his own benefit solely in mind.

You could say that the clipping came from after the 7 hours war and is about Breen being put in charge of Earth - but to believe that you also have to believe that newspapers didn't immediately cease circulation, and also that there is some kind of "Human Affairs Bureau" underneath Breen in HL2, something we see no evidence of in the game. It's also a pretty small article and you'd expect an article about the new nominal ruler of Earth to be big news.

 

[kupocake]

How come they can't locally teleport then? That seems like a complete lack of understanding to me.

This is a good point, but perhaps its more complex than that. The Teleportation that Kliener etc use has a Relay or something located in Xen (As Dr Mossman points out, it means you don't have to go to Xen Adrian Shepherd style to move around, you just use it as a "Slingshot") - Perhaps the Combine's "Relay" was destroyed - particuarly supported if Nihlianth was their method of doing so. Also, actual combine presence on Earth is minimal - the inability for the Transhuman arm of the Combine to teleport is down to them being limited to just Human science.

My mistake, I was under the impression he had been declared Administrator of Earth.

Hmm... he has hasn't he? Well, he was definately also Adminstrator of BM because Alyx introduces him as such "You remember him from Black Mesa? Your old Administrator", but he is also described somewhere as the "interim administrator for Earth" and he describes his place in the Citadel as "my administration"