Abortion

[Farrowlesparrow]

Just thought i'd start off a "hot topic". No doubt everyone will have conflicting opinions.


Anyway, what do you think of it?

 

[thenerdguy]

NO Abortion is not an option (in my opinion) I will not get in a flame war over this!

 

[Fat Tony!]

lol 2 votes one yes one no how lame is this thread

 

[Axyon]

Vote yes

I think it's acceptable. If the mother wishes so, it's their choice and no-one else's.

 

[Stone]

Originally posted by nietzsche
Basically yes, except in certain cirumstances that are morally not acceptable, e.g. if the foetus has developed too much or physical conditions of the mother would prohibit it.

Arg, I'm not sure on this topic, because I'm a firm believer that no1 sould be given the power to kill, well the only person that can decide is the baby itself, if it wants to live that is...
On the other hand, there is the moral influences onto the mother, which back-up the reasons for Abortion.

And begs the question, when does a featus become a child?!?

I personally could never kill my child, I would feel guilty, I couldn't kill something without giving it chance to live, a chance to breath or even a chance to dream... I wouldn't care how the baby turned out, I would love and care for it, and it is something that will make me immortal, something that will be there when I'm gone, someone that will be directly influenced by my actions, and If I could kill it even b4 giving it life what kind of example is that to the young one...

 

[simmo]

4 words

"Its up to the mother" ...wait 5

 

[Private Snafu]

hmmm... is this really the place to be discussing Roe vs. Wade?

 

[thenerdguy]

Originally posted by Private Snafu
hmmm... is this really the place to be discussing Roe vs. Wade?

No

 

[RoyalEF]

I am *CERTAIN* that the one vote for NO was by someone who believes the only time to have sex is for procreation and would never engage in sex unless they are willing to raise a child.

This is an ABSOLUTE certainty since all forms of birth control are fallable and over time will result in a pregnancy under normal conditions.

 

[thenerdguy]

Originally posted by RoyalEF
I am *CERTAIN* that the one vote for NO was by someone who believes the only time to have sex is for procreation and would never engage in sex unless they are willing to raise a child.

This is an ABSOLUTE certainty since all forms of birth control are fallable and over time will result in a pregnancy under normal conditions.

It was me and you are corect.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Personally I believe it is the mother's right to decide whether the baby should be aborted... well.... the feotus not a baby.. once it becomes a sentient creature... then it is not fair

 

[LoneDeranger]

I voted NO, unless the mother's life is in danger. And I'm not in the baby-killing crowd, either.

I just think it's the wrong idea to have a society where people's actions dont have consequences.

 

[Stone]

Originally posted by mrBadger
Personally I believe it is the mother's right to decide whether the baby should be aborted... well.... the feotus not a baby.. once it becomes a sentient creature... then it is not fair

But Badger, when does the Feotus become a Baby, and who is anyboby to say when it becomes alive...and you can't have a scientific definition until they find out what makes something alive...

 

[Zerimski]

Yes, it is acceptable.

Also, due to the sensitive nature of this subject, the second it turns from a nice and friendly "what's your opinion" thread into a "NO! YOU'RE WRONG!" thread it will be deleted. Just thought I'd warn everyone.

 

[Stone]

yes, I agree with you Zerimski, there's nothing wrong with descussion, but if it turns into a Bashing of beliefs, it should be got rid of... :cheese:

 

[ComradeBadger]

yeah.. well I reckon that research should be done into when a feotus's brain starts to think... and that should be the 'cut-off point' (no pun intended)... after which the baby should not be killed.

 

[EVIL]

if you want an abortion then you should have thought about it before you did it.. I think it a lame excuse!

but i can understand it in situations where the mother could die or you got raped or somesort. but the eccident thing? nah.. its thier own fault and they should accept thier respocebillity. so i voted for the 2th

 

[Stone]

/me hangs from ceiling...

"it's not all it's cut out to be...bzzzzz"

Edit: just realised I'm basically spamming my own thread... , whats the world come to....

 

[EVIL]

rofl.. and they are complaining about guinny, Valved-ray and thugenstein. you are the true pest

/me throws egg

 

[A.A]

Absolutly yes!
It's up to the mother and no one else. The child is a part of her, it is her, and as long as she is pregnant and there is stil time for an abortion she is the one that decides the childs fate. And if the child is unwanted the woman/girl should have the option of abortion, as in case she has become pregnant without her wanting it, for example rape or incest.
I think it's absurd that other people then the mothers and/or victims should be the judges if abortion should be an option or not, who are we to decide what's best for them?

 

[ComradeBadger]

yeah... i understand that.... but still once the baby has become a sentient being.... who are we to decide whether it lives or dies....

btw is Abortion legal in the UK?

 

[A.A]

Originally posted by Stone
But Badger, when does the Feotus become a Baby, and who is anyboby to say when it becomes alive...and you can't have a scientific definition until they find out what makes something alive...

I agree with you.
First we need to know, what is "alive"?
For all we know, a tree could have some state of mind, for what makes a tree grow and make leaves? That's something to think about.

 

[ComradeBadger]

a·live
adj.
Having life; living. See Synonyms at living.
In existence or operation; active: keep your hopes alive.
Full of living or moving things; abounding: a pool alive with trout.
Full of activity or animation; lively: a face alive with mischief.

IMO its when the feotus's brain first starts sending biochemical/electrical signals to the body

 

[EVIL]

i support badger

 

[Stone]

Originally posted by mrBadger

btw is Abortion legal in the UK?

Yes, i have a few friends who've had them... ;(

 

[Sushi]

I voted for yes, because I believe that it is up to the mother to use her judgement to decide wether or not to abort her pregnancy.

For example, if a woman was raped, and she didn't have the money to raise a child, the mother should have the choice to abort, since if she gives birth, there is a good chance that the child will grow up in poverty, which could lead to a very poor life.

But something I heard in the news recently was about a woman with a mental disability (forget which one) who was raped, and entered pregnancy as a result. The woman was detemined not to be in a good mental capacity to decide wether or not to abort, so the decision was left to a judge. The judge decided not to abort, which I think is bad, since the baby has a very strong chance of developing mental problems, and probably won't have a very normal childhood.

 

[Stone]

Well who does have a normal Child-hood, and while your there could you define normal?

 

[A.A]

Originally posted by Stone
Well who does have a normal Child-hood, and while your there could you define normal?

Think a little and you would know what is meant by saying "normal life", because I really don't want to explain.

 

[A.A]

I want to see the argument that the two people who voted "No" have.

 

[Stone]

I've posted mine, the other guy?

 

[The DemonWithin]

I would say its ok if it is certain the mother is goin to die, cause the baby might have birth defects anyway. Although ultimately i think its up to the mother to decide.

 

[Sushi]

Originally posted by Stone
Well who does have a normal Child-hood, and while your there could you define normal?

Well nobody really has a completely normal childhood, but someone with a brain defect would be nowhere near normal.
I feel that a normal childhood should have a good education, and a loving family that can provide all the essential services for the child.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Originally posted by mrBadger
a·live
adj.
Having life; living. See Synonyms at living.
In existence or operation; active: keep your hopes alive.
Full of living or moving things; abounding: a pool alive with trout.
Full of activity or animation; lively: a face alive with mischief.

IMO its when the feotus's brain first starts sending biochemical/electrical signals to the body

Thats quite a good point about the brain sending signals, Ive never thought about it like that.


To be honest i don't think abortion should ever be done unless the mother will die if she stays pregnant. I don't really abortion at any stage in the pregnancy should take place because i believe every foetus has the potential to become good human being. However i do think there is a point where the baby isn't thinking, it isn't anymore than a sack of cells. My brother was born 3 months premature because they had to force the pregnancy otherwise my mum might have died or at least never had children again (Id like to point out he is my older brother. Just think about that.). If they had aborted, which was an option my mother thankfully didn't choose, my brother would be here today (well, living in the US anyway). Yet the other day i found out that in America they still do partial birth abortions, where baby's can basically be killed even at 9 months when they are coming out of the womb. That is completely wrong but thankfully Bush is making moves to get rid of that.

Anyway the way abortion before a certain age is justified to me, is that the baby will never even know it has happened and will move straight on to heaven, where I'm sure it will be a great deal happier that it would ever be on earth. I think the bar should be set where the youngest baby has ever been born. Just recently a baby was born, where its skin wasn't even fully formed, before that baby had been born others had been aborted at that age because they wouldn't survive. Since medical science is advancing more every day baby's can survive at much younger ages. So who knows, abortions one day may not be needed because the baby can be supported outside the womb.


EDIT: Many people say its up to the mother to decide. Well for one thing a lot of mothers are talked into it because the way its all presented to them is very sterile, for want of a better word, and the baby is never talked about as a human being. Also how can a mother have the power to kill something when everyone else gets put in jail for it? "Its part of her" you say, but conjoined twins cant decide to kill each other just because they are joined

 

[Stone]

Originally posted by Sushi
Well nobody really has a completely normal childhood, but someone with a brain defect would be nowhere near normal.
I feel that a normal childhood should have a good education, and a loving family that can provide all the essential services for the child.

Well, even someone with a brain defect should be given a chance at life, Is it there fault if they have it no, this is almost the same ideology (SP?) that started a War, It's oh well, he's going to be fat, well kill him, if we don't he's going to get picked on and not have a normal child hood, kill him...

EDIT: sorry, if this sounds aggressive or offends anyone, espc Sushi, had bad night...sorry ;(

 

[derby]

when you try and think about things logically several bizarre questions arrise.

Sperm die all the time, each one is a potenttial baby. Some people beleive thatt the morning after pill (a pill that can be taken up to three days after conceptio) is not a form of abortion. It does kill the baby although the baby is merely a sperm that has divided a number of times within an egg. when does it become murder? a sperm is a single cell, then 2 then 4 at some point it becomes a baby. who is to say at what point this occurs. at what division does a ball of stem cells become a baby? it really doesnt mak sense. if you're against killing babies then what aobu the sperm and eggs than die continually. each one is capable of becoming a person.

 

[Zerimski]

Ok, to everyone saying that it's only an acceptable action if the mother is likely to die, how about if the mother became pregnant from being raped?

 

[Fat Tony!]

Mothers arnt talked into abortion they choose out of their own will. Anyway there is nothing wrong with abortion especially since (i know this sounds harsh) the population of the world is too high and needs to be cut down. Also the baby doesnt think oh ive been killed bastard mother ill come down and avenge my death is he/she

 

[Zerimski]

No, in a large amount of cases, the mothers conscience does a perfectly good job of "avenging".

 

[ComradeBadger]

Originally posted by derby
at what division does a ball of stem cells become a baby? it really doesnt mak sense. if you're against killing babies then what aobu the sperm and eggs than die continually. each one is capable of becoming a person.

read my post about when a baby starts to live... and therefor has a right to exsist

 

[FireBall]

Originally posted by Stone
when does the Feotus become a Baby?

When its born, silly :dozey: