Another Insurgent Attack

[K e r b e r o s]

Yes, the Shi'ites will do everything they can to eliminate the terrorist threat.

Thank god ... its great to know where not the only ones.

 

[burner69]

Do you think Hitler should be called a madman? He obviously thought he was doing the right thing.

That seems to be the gist of where you want this thread. I mean hell, the first post was asking whether or not the war was justified. Now you want me to look at it in the perspective of a terrorist.

Yes but Hitler was killing a race of people because he thought they were the scourge of evil. They had infact done bugger all.

In this case a country is being invaded by people who have, in the past, killed many thousands of the country's innocents. And now, they are arresting, torturing, and murdering more without charge. Put yourself in the shoes of a man who lives in this country and think of your options:
1) Keep your head down and do nothing. Here you risk the fact that the invading army will take over your country, and possibly kill you. OR that the current leader will kill you for not helping.
2) Help the current leader fight off the invading army. This invading army has killed more people than Saddam ever has, lesser of two evils in your books.
3) Help the invading army, despite a bad past they are promsing good things, and would certainly help overthrow Saddam, who is a dangerous f**k up.

Are any of those lines of thinking 'evil' or invalid? Bare in mind the strength of the anti-west convictions some people hold over there.

 

[kmack]

lol, you guys are gonna crap yourselves in a typing frenzy after this

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0405-11.htm

 

[CptStern]

lol, I like the cut of your gib Kmack ...whatever the **** that means

 

[seinfeldrules]

In this case a country is being invaded by people who have, in the past, killed many thousands of the country's innocents. And now, they are arresting, torturing, and murdering more without charge. Put yourself in the shoes of a man who lives in this country and think of your options:
1) Keep your head down and do nothing. Here you risk the fact that the invading army will take over your country, and possibly kill you. OR that the current leader will kill you for not helping.
2) Help the current leader fight off the invading army. This invading army has killed more people than Saddam ever has, lesser of two evils in your books.
3) Help the invading army, despite a bad past they are promsing good things, and would certainly help overthrow Saddam, who is a dangerous f**k up.

1. Saddam is gone. There is noway someone will be killed for not helping the terrorists.
2. Calling the US more evil than Saddam is laughable at best. I thought we were having a serious discussion here.
3. Promising? We have delievered billions of dollars in aid and have helped to set up Iraq's first true election in a long time.

Yes but Hitler was killing a race of people because he thought they were the scourge of evil.

And these terrorists are targetting women and children because they think God told them to do so. Sounds just as unjustified to me.

 

[kmack]

lol, I like the cut of your gib Kmack ...whatever the **** that means

goin off topic here cuz this is one of the few compliments i ever got in these forums!

lol, thanks man, i wish people didnt take this crap so seriously. I know that everyone in here has their opinons and nothing in here will sway them one way or the other (im the same way) which is just fine.

its like trying to explain evolution to someone who believes in creationism. (in case you are wondering, it cant be done, fortunatly our public schools are doing a good job in keeping God out of science.)

 

[CptStern]

goin off topic here cuz this is one of the few compliments i ever got in these forums!

lol, thanks man, i wish people didnt take this crap so seriously. I know that everyone in here has their opinons and nothing in here will sway them one way or the other (im the same way) which is just fine.

its like trying to explain evolution to someone who believes in creationism. (in case you are wondering, it cant be done, fortunatly our public schools are doing a good job in keeping God out of science.)

np, I call it as I see it


I think people here are too caught up in the idea of what their country means to them, it clouds their judgement when presented with facts and is readily dismissed as "anti-american" or as a downright lie ..case in point: the Madeline Albright quote "we think the price was worth it" ...the neo-cons in our group would rather dismiss it altogether than see it for what it was: the truth ..she never disputed the numbers she never disputed the fact that she claimed responsibility when she said "we" ...yet the neo-cons are quick to point to saddam, defer blame and wash their hands of any sort of involvement ..it's truely like pulling teeth as no amount of evidence will break through their patriotic veneer

 

[burner69]

1. Saddam is gone. There is noway someone will be killed for not helping the terrorists.

So then the people who kept their head down are ok then... well... a few are being arrested and tortured, but we'll let that pass now eh?

2. Calling the US more evil than Saddam is laughable at best. I thought we were having a serious discussion here.

Do a 'who killed the most people' count. Then take into consideration the west sold certain chemical weapons to Saddam even after he'd killed his own people.

3. Promising? We have delievered billions of dollars in aid and have helped to set up Iraq's first true election in a long time.

Many people are worried, however, what the motivation is for this. With large corporations muscling in on Iraq, with sanctions being lain down to force people to buy American goods; is this money being spent for the benefit of the Iraqi people, or the benefit of the US's pockets. Or, as I suspect, a bit of both.
Either way, people have a right to defend their country from an invading army who is trying to change it. They're wrong, I believe, but they're hardly brainless evil-doers, they really think the US is there to f**k things up.

And these terrorists are targetting women and children because they think God told them to do so. Sounds just as unjustified to me.

Not quite.
Some may be.
Most are targetting civilians who are siding with the coalition; police officers, voters, that kind of thing. It's nasty, don't get me wrong, but it's not like they're killing innocents for kicks, they have political motivation, and a history of the west f**king them up (which is ignored again and again by Bush and his friends), and so have reason to both fear, and want to attack the west when it invades, and indeed anyone who sides with them.

Yeah, but religion like you mention is f**ked up, I agree.

 

[seinfeldrules]

So then the people who kept their head down are ok then... well... a few are being arrested and tortured, but we'll let that pass now eh?

The few Americans who performed such actions are being tried in a court of law. Some have already been convicted.

Do a 'who killed the most people' count. Then take into consideration the west sold certain chemical weapons to Saddam even after he'd killed his own people.

He killed the majority of people in the 88 Anfal campaign. I dont believe the US sold weapons to him after that point in time.

Either way, people have a right to defend their country from an invading army who is trying to change it. They're wrong, I believe, but they're hardly brainless evil-doers, they really think the US is there to f**k things up.

I never said they didnt. If they want to support Saddam, fine. Just keep the attacks away from civilians.

I think people here are too caught up in the idea of what their country means to them, it clouds their judgement when presented with facts and is readily dismissed as "anti-american" or as a downright lie ..case in point: the Madeline Albright quote "we think the price was worth it" ...the neo-cons in our group would rather dismiss it altogether than see it for what it was: the truth ..she never disputed the numbers she never disputed the fact that she claimed responsibility when she said "we" ...yet the neo-cons are quick to point to saddam, defer blame and wash their hands of any sort of involvement ..it's truely like pulling teeth as no amount of evidence will break through their patriotic veneer

Stern, cut the crap. Everything to you is always America's fault. That is why people call you anti-American. You refuse to point out what Madeline Albright really meant in her statement, even after I posted it for you. It's truely like pulling teeth as no amount of evidence will break through your anti-American veneer.

 

[Raziaar]

Yes but Hitler was killing a race of people because he thought they were the scourge of evil. They had infact done bugger all.

In this case a country is being invaded by people who have, in the past, killed many thousands of the country's innocents. And now, they are arresting, torturing, and murdering more without charge. Put yourself in the shoes of a man who lives in this country and think of your options:
1) Keep your head down and do nothing. Here you risk the fact that the invading army will take over your country, and possibly kill you. OR that the current leader will kill you for not helping.
2) Help the current leader fight off the invading army. This invading army has killed more people than Saddam ever has, lesser of two evils in your books.
3) Help the invading army, despite a bad past they are promsing good things, and would certainly help overthrow Saddam, who is a dangerous f**k up.

Are any of those lines of thinking 'evil' or invalid? Bare in mind the strength of the anti-west convictions some people hold over there.

Hitler was also killing homosexuals and stuff too. Funnily enough, it was also the homosexual SA who helped to bring him to power in many regards as well. So he actually worked with them a bunch before saying, "Alright, you're all ****ing dead now."

I just find it really ironic, that the Nazi party was greatly in part founded by homosexuals, especially since he had a deep, underlying bizarre hatred towards them.

And just a note to you all. This has nothing to do with the current conversation, so don't try bringing what I said into modern discussion. It is about the facts of hitler's rise to power, nothing more.

 

[burner69]

And just a note to you all. This has nothing to do with the current conversation, so don't try bringing what I said into modern discussion. It is about the facts of hitler's rise to power, nothing more.

Another interesting Hitler fact. The reason he was so highly acknoleged was because he earnt a medal in teh first world war... you know what that medal was for?

Risking his life to save a Jew on the battlefield.

Crazy world.

Anyway, back on topic

 

[K e r b e r o s]

^ ... and thats the first thing I ever heard about Hitler that I did'nt know.

 

[burner69]

^ ... and thats the first thing I ever heard about Hitler that I did'nt know.

*Blows trumpets triumphantly*



Anyway :hmph: <--serious face
Back on topic!!
All of you!!
:E

 

[KoreBolteR]

*Blows trumpets triumphantly*



Anyway :hmph: <--serious face
Back on topic!!
All of you!!
:E

since when did you become a mod :O , hehe

going on topic, ive jus read the last few pages, and agree mostly with what seinfeldrules has said.

 

[burner69]

since when did you become a mod :O , hehe

going on topic, ive jus read the last few pages, and agree mostly with what seinfeldrules has said.

You're up early kore! Sheesh.

Ner, ain't been sleep tday so I'm not very coherent at the mo, hence the strange mod behaviour... not to imply anything you lovely mods :E

 

[KoreBolteR]

You're up early kore! Sheesh.

Ner, ain't been sleep tday so I'm not very coherent at the mo, hence the strange mod behaviour... not to imply anything you lovely mods :E

you have non other than Moditus, mystery disease which makes you think you rule the world and are powerless :stare:

yeah im up this early everyday, to go to my course, but i have a good ol free day off today .

and a bit of a hangover from last nite.. lol.