Are you sick and tired of the Ragdoll system?

Should there be any changes?

  • Yes, enough is enough

    Votes: 7 36.8%
  • Nah, I like it the way it is

    Votes: 5 26.3%
  • You're just picking things to complain about

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • Email Gabe!

    Votes: 3 15.8%

  • Total voters
    19
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So, what say you?

Personally, I think it's crap. Now hold on, I ain't saying anything against the integrity of the Source engine - I think that it's gorgeous. It's just this element that's bugging me.

What I think that needs to be done is add a couple (a dozen would be even better) of death sequence animations that would be performed after a monster/player dies, and then relate control of the model to the Physics engine. That, and the annoying lim criss-crossing should be further evaluated as a problem that needs to be solved. This would also possitively affect the goofy-guestures-after-death problem that, atleast in my perspective, takes away from the experience that the Half-Life series provide the player since day one.

This should mainly be directed to the the humanoid models, as the other alien types may be too unpredictable to make animations for. Also, I would like to see some Left 4 Dead-styled dsmembering in the next Half-Life games - damn, why didn't Valve add that from earlier on?

It's not that I'm on a rage against Valve, the Source engine, animation/modelling or whatever. I am simply here to point out annoyances that "might" (don't know how you see it) ruin an athmosphere of swinging crowbar tension that I hope to be everlasting - until the Shut down swtch breaks us appart, that is. ;)

I am sincerely hoping Portal 2/Episode Three/[Valve Game X] brings us at least in some degree a fix to this nerdy obsession of mine.. which might not be only mine indeed.

Thank you and good day to you all.. fellow Citizens.
 
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I agree. Even in 2004, HL2's ragdoll animations were already somewhat behind the curve. Max Payne 2's ragdoll system featured key framed death animations to look more natural, as well as collapsing enemies, and character reactions to items being stacked on top of them. Splinter Cell's models featured weighted limbs, and the modified Source engine game Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines had a less refined version of what Max Payne 2 had.

But what did Source have? Enemies that stay stiff, and stand until their hitpoints are finally exhausted where they then drop as if hit in the medulla oblangata even when shot in the leg. This system stayed for the next years until Left 4 Dead finally included key framed animations that synced death animations and simulated stunning blows with the ragdolls. It's since been implemented minorly into TF2 and CS:S.

Also since 2004, dead bodies clip through transparent surfaces such as glass, chainlink fences, and grating. And in 2010 it still has not been fixed. It's really glaring when you kill a character on a catwalk or when you're playing a multiplayer "glass" map.
 

ríomhaire

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Oh god no. I love the ragdolls. I've laughed my arse off at the way those body frump around so many times. I love Half-Life 2's ragdolls. I remember once playing Substance Mod during the apartment bridge area in the streetfight there is a rebel who's scripted to be hit by an explosion (mortar synth?) and die. He got blown off the bridge and landed on one of my squadmates and killed him. Laughed so hard :LOL:
 
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Oh, but what happened with the exploding bodies from Half-Life one? I miss that really bad, too. :(
 

kupocake

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Half-Life 2 had the best ragdoll system on release. Also, I really couldn't give a shit.
 
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Half-Life 2 had the best ragdoll system on release.
Exactly, on release. Then would you say the same for Episode 1, Episode Two, Day of Defeat: Source, Counter-Strike:Source etc.? I highly doubt that.

Also, I really couldn't give a shit.
Well if the game's story/setting/game mechanics are good, it might be enough to take you away from the matter, no?
 

Shem

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I honestly think it's fine the way it is. Perhaps in the near future they'll consider implementing a few random death animations for whatever enemies we'll be facing in Episode Three, but I doubt it.
 

Barnz

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What you listed above is already available in the Source Engine.
 

Tony

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It would be nice to not see a ragdoll's arm clipping through its head. I don't know about dismemberment and gore though. Half-Life never tried to be deliberately gory as Left 4 Dead. Maybe the headcrab zombies could benefit from that though. They always seem to get the more gruesome deaths.
 

ríomhaire

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It would be nice to not see a ragdoll's arm clipping through its head. I don't know about dismemberment and gore though. Half-Life never tried to be deliberately gory as Left 4 Dead. Maybe the headcrab zombies could benefit from that though. They always seem to get the more gruesome deaths.
Have you played Half-Life 1?

That said, I prefer Half-Life 2's style and love the ragdolls.
 

kupocake

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Exactly, on release. Then would you say the same for Episode 1, Episode Two, Day of Defeat: Source, Counter-Strike:Source etc.? I highly doubt that.
The two later games were released at basically the same time as Half-Life 2. And what's this with the 'etc'? There's no ragdolling in Portal, spazzy suits TF2 and you've already professed to liking Left 4 Dead, which offers the most up to date version of the engine currently available... so there may as well be no issue at all? As for the Episodes, there were other moments of unimpressive engine stagnation that bothered most people a little more.

I put this right in the same category as people who care how accurate the firearms in the game are. It's weird fetishism about killing and death that has absolutely no effect on the story/setting/game.
 
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This is mainly the only thing about the ragdoll physics that bothers me:

Also since 2004, dead bodies clip through transparent surfaces such as glass, chainlink fences, and grating. And in 2010 it still has not been fixed. It's really glaring when you kill a character on a catwalk or when you're playing a multiplayer "glass" map.
More than that, ragdolls clip through all physics objects. Cars, pieces of rubble, dumpsters, and other ragdolls. Anything that can be moved around as opposed to being a fixed, immovable part of the world. Can't speak for L4D2 but as of EP2 this was still the case.
 
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Maybe in a way it is already available, but I was referring more to animations like in the original Day of Defeat. My idea was combining such model animations (or scripted_sequences) with the ragdoll system, rather than just throwing the model back or up in the air after the fatal blow - like in Left 4 Dead (please do correct me if I've mistaken something).

The two later games were released at basically the same time as Half-Life 2. And what's this with the 'etc'? There's no ragdolling in Portal, spazzy suits TF2 and you've already professed to liking Left 4 Dead, which offers the most up to date version of the engine currently available... so there may as well be no issue at all? As for the Episodes, there were other moments of unimpressive engine stagnation that bothered most people a little more.

I put this right in the same category as people who care how accurate the firearms in the game are. It's weird fetishism about killing and death that has absolutely no effect on the story/setting/game.

Ok, so maybe I've overreacted with the "etc" part, I'm sorry for that, but the episodes were some time after Half-Life 2, which might have given programmers and animators time to fix some stuff (which, no offence, are not that perfect).

DoD:Source/CS:Source are roughly at the same age as Half-Life 2, but that does not put them out of the equation. Why are there no game updates for them, plus Half-Life 2? Is it because they are too old to be updated? Maybe Valve doesn't want to disappoint gamers with older systems that might not run the new engine very well?

I put this right in the same category as people who care how accurate the firearms in the game are. It's weird fetishism about killing and death that has absolutely no effect on the story/setting/game.
That's why I included the "I don't know how you see it" line in my post. For me the way a monster dies closely follows the story of the game - only if it's a Singleplayer game.
Yes, sometimes I don't give a damn as most of you, as the game situation is just too funny to be ignored, but if the game has to have you concentrated on something, nothing from it's elements/mechanics must kill that concentration.

I repeat - that's how I see things. And if am in that category of yours kupocake, I don't mind - we are what we are.
 

Barnz

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Maybe in a way it is already available, but I was referring more to animations like in the original Day of Defeat. My idea was combining such model animations (or scripted_sequences) with the ragdoll system, rather than just throwing the model back or up in the air after the fatal blow - like in Left 4 Dead (please do correct me if I've mistaken something).
It's called death pose, and it's already used for many characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKWSAHe1pSI
 

Dynasty

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One of the funniest moments in gaming Ive ever seen was a result of ragdolls, and funnily enough it was in an early gameplay demo for HL2.

The section on the beach with the crane. A soldier is on the platform of the crane high above shooting with a machinegun, and from the walkway a rocket is shot at him, misses, then circles round and hits him from the right, sending him cartwheeling across the air onto the beach below.

No matter how many times ive tried, I cant re-enact it.

I love ragdolls, it adds a new depth of realism. Its how bodies actually react. RDR is a bit too puppety as is GTA, but L4D2 is spot on for me.

Its never perfect in any game, but I cant see how they can make it any better.
 
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It's called death pose, and it's already used for many characters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKWSAHe1pSI
Oh, well then. I didn't know that, sorry.

But the feet still "glue" together after the model is no longer controlled from the AI/player, while on the ground as in that video you linked. That might be twisted a bit, too.

Anyways, nothing is impossible. There is only possibility and chance. Valve have both.. or so I think.
 

Dynasty

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Ive always loved the animations of hit detection though, combined with rag dolls.

Like shooting someone in the shoulder and watching them spin accordingly. Or taking out their leg and watching them faceplant. The enemies just seem to have a sense of weight to them in that regard, like harder falls when they're running at you etc. It makes the game FEEL more realistic.
 
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