Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Yes she is awesome, I think I once gave a few dollars to her body guard fund as shes in hiding from Muslimos
 
I was about to say she is racist, but she is not white, so she can't be racist. (According to the politically correct people)
 
xdrive said:
I was about to say she is racist, but she is not white, so she can't be racist. (According to the politically correct people)
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What are you getting at? If you're accusing her of racism then say it. If you want to discuss political correctness (gone maDDDDDDD :farmer::monkee: )
then start a new thread.

Either way, don't post nonsense like that.
 
Solaris said:
What are you getting at? If you're accusing her of racism then say it. If you want to discuss political correctness (gone maDDDDDDD :farmer::monkee: )
then start a new thread.

Either way, don't post nonsense like that.
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The point i'm trying to make is that if a white person was saying anti-islam things there would be screams and cries of "RACIST OMG RACIST, FASCIST, WHITE SUPREMACIST, NEO NAZI! SKIN HEAD!"

This woman says basically what the BNP says, yet i don't see her getting called a racist. It's amusing.
 
She isn't motivated by racism, BNP are.
 
I think you guys misunderstood the point he was making.
It's true that any white male making the points she made would be called out as a Racist.
and yes Ridley we know Islam is not a race but that doesn't stop people from believing that that is even with people on this forum.
 
All religions are ridiculous, but some religions are more ridiculous than others.
 
I saw her speak in Dallas a year or so ago. Pretty powerful stuff.
 
Wait? She blamed all muslims for 9/11? If that's really true then she is ****ing retarded.

On edit:

I just finished watching the entire interview. I actually saw her on the daily show once and she seemed fairly rational. In this she is anything but.

Her argument boils down to: All Muslims are the same. When asked about countries such as Indonesia her response is "well I'm not saying they are all the same, and a lot of what happens in Indonesia we have Christians to thank (less than 10% of their population)". Then she goes right back to the "all muslims are the same mentra" and says that if you are muslim that doesn't believe in Sharia law you aren't really a muslim. And if you are really a muslim (according to her definition of a muslim) you need to convert to christianity.

How absolutely insane is this argument? That's like saying if you don't believe the earth is flat you aren't truly a christian. And if you do believe that you need to convert to Islam since their holy book didn't make such a simple mistake about the shape of the earth.

But congratulations, you guys found a former muslim black chick to spread this crap.
 
Did she say that or not? I made that claim based on the video that you posted you jackass. It's right there in the first few second of it.

And I did watch the video, edited my thoughts in above.
 
No she specifically said to separate Islam from Muslims and there is a religious/spiritual part of it and the Political part/family structure
Are we watching the same Video?

Man only someone like No Limit can make her look bad.
 
Trying to have a honest discussion with you is like trying to explain to a 4 year old why the sky is blue.

Did she or did she not blame 9/11 on all muslims?

Did she or did she not try to excuse the moderate democratic government in Indonesia on the 10% christian population there?

Did she or did she not say that the only way for you to truly be a muslim you must also believe in Sharia law? And if you believe in that you need to convert to Christianity?

Saying Duur, Duur instead of making an actual argument still makes you look like a retarded person, I would think that you would have figured that out already.

Oh and yeah, I heard her try to explain that Islam and being a muslim is totally different, I couldn't follow her as a mulsim is someone that follows Islam. It was an argument that made absolutely no sense.
 
I'm watching the Interview again for arguments sake and sofar I didn't hear her say that "all" Muslims are to blame for 9/11


I think you need to clean your ears boy.


She didn't even mention Christian when she was talking about Indonesia.
She said that the moderate Government proves that people as Individuals can choose to things they way they want and not how the Doctrine demands it.
And at the very end of the video(part1.) she said that in for mentioned Countries that Christians and the Chinese Minority all discriminated against.
And then she said that if people are seeking Religious enlightenment only should seek out other Alternatives like Humanism and Christianity.


"I couldn't follow her."

1276747405772.gif



who's wasting who's time here?
 
I agree with her very strongly on the concept that all people are equal, but all culture's aren't.
 
The claim about 9/11 was made a few seconds in to the video by the person doing the interview. That she blamed Islam for 9/11.

She didn't even mention Christian when she was talking about Indonesia.
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Yes she did, she talked about how Christians in that country are being targeted more and more which isn't true. Yes, some attacks on christians by radical Islamic groups happen, but they are rare and there is no evidance they are on the rise. And none of these attacks are supported by the majority of the population. So she is talking out of her ass when she says the idea of a moderate democracy in Indonesia is begining to fade. Again, 90% of that country is muslim. And yet it is a free country where christians or any other religions are free to practice and spread.

She said that the moderate Government proves that people as Individuals can choose to things they way they want and not how the Doctrine demands it.
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Yes she does say that when talking about Indonesia. As soon as she's done with Indonesia she goes back to you are "either a radical western hating Muslim that wants to kill infidels or you aren't really a muslim at all".

And at the very end of the video(part1.) she said that in for mentioned Countries that Christians and the Chinese Minority all discriminated against.
Click to expand...

I'm not seeing that part but I dont feel like rewatching it again. Was she talking about Indonesia? Did she give evidance to support that claim?

And then she said that if people are seeking Religious enlightenment only should seek out other Alternatives like Humanism and Christianity.
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Exactly. She didn't say become a more moderate Muslim. She said convert to christianity or some other belief system. Because she seems to be under the assumption that there is no such thing as a moderate muslim (again from your own video) which is total nonsense.
 
Solaris said:
I agree with her very strongly on the concept that all people are equal, but all culture's aren't.
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That's also an absurd argument to me. No shit not all cultures are equal (I think moral is a better word). But what makes you say all people are equal? There are people that think flying a plane in to the IRS building because they don't liking paying taxes is the right thing to do. They are not moral people and should not be considered equals.
 
The claim about 9/11 was made a few seconds in to the video by the person doing the interview. That she blamed Islam for 9/11.

Oh, so she didn't say it then. Besides, there is a huge difference between blaming Islam for 911 and blaming 'every single muslim'.

I blame Islam for 911, but I don't blame my good friend raheal.
 
Oh, so she didn't say it then. Besides, there is a huge difference between blaming Islam for 911 and blaming 'every single muslim'
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I dont see why a reporter would introduce her that way if she never said it.

Solaris said:
I blame Islam for 911, but I don't blame my good friend raheal.
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So 9/11 had nothing to do with anything else, just religion? Eventhough the 9/11 hijackers were hanging out at strip clubs snorting coke?
 
Well I'm gonna be heading to work in a few minutes...it's my thread so I'll post a bit when I come back around 2ish PST
 
No Limit said:
So 9/11 had nothing to do with anything else, just religion? Eventhough the 9/11 hijackers were hanging out at strip clubs snorting coke?
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The most pious people on those planes were most certainly the high-jackers. If they were doing it for Iraqi-sanctions or whatever, why wouldn't they say so. Al-Quadia has made it very clear they're grievances are absurd and religious. They will not stop until they can destroy western civilisation or are themselves destroyed.
 
Cool, I forgot to address one of your points because of the idiotic picture you had to throw in there which was distracting.

So when you get back explain to me how Islam and being a muslim are 2 totally different things. Because I couldn't follow. And since apparently not understanding this logic makes me retarded in your world I'm sure you won't have any trouble explaining it to my dumb ass.
 
Solaris said:
The most pious people on those planes were most certainly the high-jackers. If they were doing it for Iraqi-sanctions or whatever, why wouldn't they say so. Al-Quadia has made it very clear they're grievances are absurd and religious. They will not stop until they can destroy western civilisation or are themselves destroyed.
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Actually they did give political reasons, including the sanctions on Iraq you just mentioned.

Then you ignored my main point. If this was about religion and they were such crazy religious extremists that believed blowing themselves up would give them 72 virgins why did they go to strip clubs, gamble, and snort coke?
 
No Limit said:
Actually they did give political reasons, including the sanctions on Iraq you just mentioned.

Then you ignored my main point. If this was about religion and they were such crazy religious extremists that believed blowing themselves up would give them 72 virgins why did they go to strip clubs, gamble, and snort coke?
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Why do preists abuse kids? Religion is often a poisonous, hypocritical belief structure built upon self-denial. Just as it is always the closet homosexuals who are the most passionate anti-gays, its not surprising homocidal islamo-fascists were indulging in extreme vices.
 
I like that everybody here can be so comfortable when it comes to criticizing the base structure of a religion like Christianity, but of course Islam needs to get a few good white knighters who make it difficult for others.

"I think Islam is a pretty shit religion."
"WHAT?! How dare you! You hate all Muslims don't you? ****ing asshole racist!"
 
Solaris said:
Why do preists abuse kids? Religion is often a poisonous, hypocritical belief structure built upon self-denial. Just as it is always the closet homosexuals who are the most passionate anti-gays, its not surprising homocidal islamo-fascists were indulging in extreme vices.
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So they were willing to blow themselves up for something they didn't truly believe?

I like that everybody here can be so comfortable when it comes to criticizing the base structure of a religion like Christianity, but of course Islam needs to get a few good white knighters who make it difficult for others.

"I think Islam is a pretty shit religion."
"WHAT?! How dare you! You hate all Muslims don't you? ****ing asshole racist!"
Click to expand...

That's a bullshit strawmen argument too. I don't have any issue criticizing the base structure of Islam or any other religion as long as that is done fairly. I don't believe her criticism is fair in many cases as I pointed out above. The reason I always have to be defending this idiotic religion is because people love to make shit up about the people that follow it.
 
Up until you posted Absinthe, this thread was the epitome of why I dislike every singe person who posted in this thread.

I saw her on the Daily Show as well, though I thought she was stupid even then.

EDIT: Oh, she was on the Colbert Report, but not the Daily Show. Maybe that's why she looked stupid, because that's what Colbert does to people. Just watched it again, and she says that she doesn't really have a problem with Christianity because Christians criticize the bible, while Muslims don't criticize the Koran. HAH I say!
 
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is whiny little bitch. She has done nothing but cause trouble and strife while she was participating in Dutch politics. And since her move to the US she has become even more quarrelsome. Still, she should be able to utter her unsubstantiated bullshit, just like No Limit is allowed to post his naive apologist nonsense. This whole debate (on the forum but also worldwide) is just two sides screaming at each other without ever bothering to listen. What should happen in my very humble opinion is this. In the West, left-wingers should stop idolizing the multicultural society and right-wingers really need to stop seeing Islam as a threat to their way of life. Islam should go through a period of enlightenment and build a big wall between the spiritual and the physical world. Amen.
 
just like No Limit is allowed to post his naive apologist nonsense
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Please, do explain. Are you suggesting that I idolize the "multicultural society" of Islam? Because that would be total horseshit. But I guess by all means, try to seem as fair and balanced as absolutely possible. Maybe there's a job at CNN in it for ya.
 
No Limit said:
Please, do explain. Are you suggesting that I idolize the "multicultural society" of Islam? Because that would be total horseshit. But I guess by all means, try to seem as fair and balanced as absolutely possible. Maybe there's a job at CNN in it for ya.
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The quote that triggered that remark was this one:

Yes, some attacks on christians by radical Islamic groups happen, but they are rare and there is no evidance they are on the rise. And none of these attacks are supported by the majority of the population. So she is talking out of her ass when she says the idea of a moderate democracy in Indonesia is begining to fade. Again, 90% of that country is muslim. And yet it is a free country where christians or any other religions are free to practice and spread.
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This is really just the ideal world scenario you're sketching here. Sulawesi, West Sumatra, or even Java all have their fair share of Christian bashing. It comes and goes in waves, but it is a constant. And there is no denying that the Indonesian government has become more Islamocentric since the demise of the Nationalists in the late nineties. For good or worse, Sukarno and later Suharto kept the country together, a bit like Tito did with the Balkan. The comparison is intended by the way, because as you know it were the Muslims that were being bashed when Yugoslavia fell apart.

Funny little detail by the way. You could contend that us Dutch are partly responsible for the violence against Indonesian Christians. Especially during the early 20th century we murdered lots and lots of Muslims in Aceh, with help of the Christians tribes there. Those pogroms form part of the roots of the current tensions on Sumatra.
 
Shakermaker said:
What should happen in my very humble opinion is this. In the West, left-wingers should stop idolizing the multicultural society and right-wingers really need to stop seeing Islam as a threat to their way of life. Islam should go through a period of enlightenment and build a big wall between the spiritual and the physical world. Amen.
Click to expand...

Well put, and bears repeating, imho...
 
The point she made about Christendom (sp?)
I still agree with because I think most Christians (atleast in Europe) have a easier time of separating Religion and everyday life while in Country's like Saudi Arabia and Iran it seems Relgion dominates everyday life to a point where it does become oppressive.But at the same time I realize that all Religions are susceptible to this. (Bible Belt)
And up until now many people be it Liberals or Moderates made the excuse that Terrorism is so popular and effective tool for Islam because of poverty.But recent attempted attacks prove this to be wrong.
 
Shakermaker said:
The quote that triggered that remark was this one:



This is really just the ideal world scenario you're sketching here. Sulawesi, West Sumatra, or even Java all have their fair share of Christian bashing. It comes and goes in waves, but it is a constant. And there is no denying that the Indonesian government has become more Islamocentric since the demise of the Nationalists in the late nineties. For good or worse, Sukarno and later Suharto kept the country together, a bit like Tito did with the Balkan. The comparison is intended by the way, because as you know it were the Muslims that were being bashed when Yugoslavia fell apart.

Funny little detail by the way. You could contend that us Dutch are partly responsible for the violence against Indonesian Christians. Especially during the early 20th century we murdered lots and lots of Muslims in Aceh, with help of the Christians tribes there. Those pogroms form part of the roots of the current tensions on Sumatra.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying. I'll be honest, I don't know all that much about Indonesia. But when you have a country where there are over 30 million christians all practicing and spreading their faith freely where the huge majority is Muslim clearly those christians don't feel threatened. There are bound to be some attacks, some groups that try to mess that up. But by far and large it can't be that bad or those 30 million people would move. And I don't know of any evidance where christians in Indonesia are getting killed all the time by muslim extremists. It's far to say those attacks are rare, no?
 
No Limit said:
Thanks for clarifying. I'll be honest, I don't know all that much about Indonesia. But when you have a country where there are over 30 million christians all practicing and spreading their faith freely where the huge majority is Muslim clearly those christians don't feel threatened. There are bound to be some attacks, some groups that try to mess that up. But by far and large it can't be that bad or those 30 million people would move. And I don't know of any evidance where christians in Indonesia are getting killed all the time by muslim extremists. It's far to say those attacks are rare, no?
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It is hard to say because Christian propaganda factors in as well. Lets just say it is no race war but it isn't Never Never Land either.
 
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