Comeback for Shephard

If Gordon is meant to be a character in the traditional sense, Steven Segal's characters are better developed than he is.

Neither Gordon nor Shepherd are characters we're supposed to get attached to. Each name is simply a plot device, and that's how they should both be treated. As a plot device, meaning as a gateway for the player to enter the established gameworld, Shepherd could still prove to be very useful should Valve ever wish to elaborate on something that's going on in the storyline that they can't from Freeman's established perpective. If Valve wanted to make a prequel episode set before Freeman's arrival, for example, or during that seven-day period he was stuck in the slow teleport, Shepherd would be the way for them to do that. He's the only other guy we know is under G-Man's control in the same sense as Gordon, and could be manipulated and observed by him in the same fashion.

So should Valve ever want to do something like this, Shepherd would be a cool way to make it happen. They'd make it work, we'd all be happy, and anyone who objects to that needs to shut the hell up. Should they not, well then that's their call and everyone else needs to shut the hell up as well.
 
Perhaps some are forgetting that the point of playing as Shephard was for the player to become a Marine. Obviously all the Marines along with the rest of Earth's armed forces got obliviated by the Seven Hours War long ago. Any that stayed fighting would long have been absorbed into the Resistance. With that in mind, Shephard the Marine just has no place in an Overwatch-administrated world. Any expansion packs dealing with someone other than Freeman would be better if the player was a member of the Resistance, or a Civil Protection officer, or even a Vortigaunt. The novelty for any of those roles would be far greater than just playing as one of Government Man's pet projects.
 
esplin said:
Okay, so some people are having trouble seeing the gaping plotholes in Opposing Force, I will attempt to explain.

1. After a long day of fighting Adrian finds himself infront of a giant squid spewing teleporters. Adrian seems to have killed the beast, but it is also exploding. Just when it looks like the end Adrian is pulled out........and then told he knows too much and is locked away forever.
This would make sense except for the fact that EVERYONE during the time of Half Life 2 knows about the Black Mesa Incident. Dr. Kliener and Dr. Vance knew a lot more about the incident then Shephard did, yet they are allowed to tell the world while Adrian gets the boot.

2. The nuke. The government attempts to cover-up the incident by Nuking Black Mesa. The first problem with this is that Black Mesa should already be destroyed (see my previous post.) However, even ignoring this, their seems to be little or no reason to nuke the base. It would be a good cover up, except for the fact that the portal storms are still going on, and spreading. You think the government would try to stop the portal storms well before it tried to cover them up. Do they think that it will seal the portals? I'd love to see their scientific reasoning for this.

3. This one is debateable but I'll bring it up anyway. A large portion of the game takes place after Nihilanth is killed, yet we see Vortigaunts still wearing their collars.

4. I already brought this up, but the air rade should have destroyed Black Mesa. I don't care if Black Mesa is three times the size of Texas (another thread, don't ask) it would only be a matter of hours before Black Mesa was nothing but rubble.

So with all these plot contrivances what do we have left. The worst attempted cover up in history, Bomber pilots who couldn't find toilet paper in the bathroom, a hero locked away forever because no one likes him, and an alien race that is never explained, even in its own game.

The reason these flaws in the story exist, Half Life 2 was made without any consideration for Opposing Force. So their you have it. Valve may still say Gearbox's work is canon, but Valve itself has made their games obsolete.


1. I dont think the Gman expected Either kliener or Eli to survive, and if he did he could've possibly forseen that they would be of use in the futurue. I also think the only reason he captured shephard was because of how far he made it, What if shephard got on the chopper? Would've been the end of it right there.

2. Well considering the majority of black mesa is underground, I dont see how an Air Raid could destroy it. All the facilites on the top? Sure why not, would make sense that they were completely destroyed, but unless were talking about some ultra-super-secret penetrating missles that mind you, would have to probably have to penetrate a few miles down into the planet to even reach black mesa THAN yes, it would have been destroyed. As for the portal storms, I don't think they started right when the black mesa incident started, and if the government even knew about the storms beforehand, the first thing they would do is blow up Black Mesa to make sure no one found out that its pretty much there fault for letting something like that happen.

3. The vortigaunts wouldnt just magically dispose of there collars once Nili died, and you stopped seeing most Xen species after you saw Gordon jump through the portal, after that it was just Race X and the Uber-ninjas of death.

4. See 2.

So what do we have left? Bomber pilots who unfortunately, dont have magic missle. A hero locked away for possible future purposes (And mind you only locked away, and not killed, because the Gman took some interest in him), and an Alien Race that gets as much explanation as the Xen species that start appearing. They did just that. Started appearing.
 
Black Op said:
As for the characterization issue, at least Freeman has a developed backstory if you own the HL2 guide. And HL1 actually is a footnote to the HL2 storyline, while Op4 seems to not be a footnote at all.

Exactly. Freeman becomes a little bit more than a pair of hands in HL2. Why can't the same happen to Shephard? Valve can flesh him out as well in a future expansion.

And of course HL1 is a footnote to the HL2 storyline, HL2 is a direct sequel developed by Valve. Op4 was developed by Gearbox as an expansion.
 
gusIII said:
This is an excellent moment to take him back into the story

rutrippin.jpg
 
Adrik_Senturu said:
1. I dont think the Gman expected Either kliener or Eli to survive, and if he did he could've possibly forseen that they would be of use in the futurue. I also think the only reason he captured shephard was because of how far he made it, What if shephard got on the chopper? Would've been the end of it right there.
Government Man only directly interferes in someone's affairs if he has special interest in them. Otherwise it's in his nature to just let events play out for themselves. G-Man was not concerned about the fate of most of the Black Mesa survivors. For some odd reason though, he seems to enjoy toying around with Shephard even when he recruited Freeman in the end. Perhaps G-Man is always on the lookout for potential recruits?

2. Well considering the majority of black mesa is underground, I dont see how an Air Raid could destroy it. All the facilites on the top? Sure why not, would make sense that they were completely destroyed, but unless were talking about some ultra-super-secret penetrating missles that mind you, would have to probably have to penetrate a few miles down into the planet to even reach black mesa THAN yes, it would have been destroyed. As for the portal storms, I don't think they started right when the black mesa incident started, and if the government even knew about the storms beforehand, the first thing they would do is blow up Black Mesa to make sure no one found out that its pretty much there fault for letting something like that happen.
But all the topside facilities in Op4 after the Grunts pull out should have been wiped off the face of the Earth. Instead they seem practically intact, a direct contradiction to what HL1 implies. However a nuclear device could probably take care of the underground sections along with any stragglers. My feeling is that the Portal Storms were a side-effect of the Nihilanth's death (which was pretty violent).

3. The vortigaunts wouldnt just magically dispose of there collars once Nili died, and you stopped seeing most Xen species after you saw Gordon jump through the portal, after that it was just Race X and the Uber-ninjas of death.
Surely the Vortigaunts on Earth would notice when their connection with their master has been severed? Without any Controllers, the Slaves are finally free to their own devices and would have little reason to attack humans anymore.

So what do we have left? Bomber pilots who unfortunately, dont have magic missle. A hero locked away for possible future purposes (And mind you only locked away, and not killed, because the Gman took some interest in him), and an Alien Race that gets as much explanation as the Xen species that start appearing. They did just that. Started appearing.
But all the bombing efforts in the world would have gone to waste if Black Mesa's topside wasn't utterly destroyed, which Op4 seems to unfortuntely suggest. Shephard unlike Freeman seems destined to live the rest of his life in storage, as Government Man never indicated he would actually use his services. As for Race-X, nothing of their home world or their leader is known unlike how HL1 gave us a good glimpse of the Borderworld and its Nihilanth.

DeusExMachina said:
Exactly. Freeman becomes a little bit more than a pair of hands in HL2. Why can't the same happen to Shephard? Valve can flesh him out as well in a future expansion.
Shephard doesn't have much of a role in Freeman's saga. The point of Shephard's existance and the other expansions was just so the Black Mesa incident could be viewed from different points of view. Any future expansions should use the same concept, so new characters could be created rather than just reusing Shephard. I'd rather know the life of a normal Resistance member, an Universial Union collaborator, or a Vortigaunt rather than use an old character again for a random purpose. That's how I view expansions.

And of course HL1 is a footnote to the HL2 storyline, HL2 is a direct sequel developed by Valve. Op4 was developed by Gearbox as an expansion.
Still doesn't mean that Op4 contributed greatly to the primary HL storyline.
 
To all these people who just say "OMG OP4 TOTALLY SUCKED NOOB ASS" i get the impression that you all would rather have never played the game, rather than actually play it and find something nice to say about it.

If its not the plot, its the characters, if its not the characters its the weapons, if its not the weapons its the setting. There is always something wrong.

For every person who hates op4, there is one who really likes it. Its just in this thread we have more personalities who hate it than like it.

The teleport gun was sweet, one of the most original weapons i have ever seen. Who cares if its an impossibility, so its the Tau cannon and Gluon Gun!!

Shepard was a good character IMO, the opening scene set it up beuatifully and the training was sweet. That built his character up enough for me.

Fot those who can find nothing but negatives, i can say only this: your standards are impossibly high. Why dont you trying making a better expansion pack??
 
I'd like to see something involving adrian if only for closure.

Unlike Freeman who had the chance to see things develop from the beginning, Adrian had the unique position of being completely out of the information loop.

I think that the fact that he's even more confused than even gordon gives him a certain appeal and could bring a lot to a story. Even better is the fact that even though you went through the same BM disaster as gordon, nobody gives a rats ass about you, meanwhile they praise gordon like an orange messiah
 
Shephard was booring :(
The Shephard must be confined to limbo for eternity.
 
I hope to see him come back, him and Gordon would make a badass team. I imagine they wouldnt fight anymore because Shepard is , i think it is safe to say, unemployed now. What would be even awesome is playing as the black ops, maybe some of them survived :D.
 
Assuming they worked for Breen, he would've had them be the first for assimilation.
 
My only fear is that Shephard's return will ruin the HL 2 storyline like OpFor screwed up the HL storyline.
 
Surely the Vortigaunts on Earth would notice when their connection with their master has been severed? Without any Controllers, the Slaves are finally free to their own devices and would have little reason to attack humans anymore.

Well, if you were stuck on an alien planet with odd men in green cloth that are trying to shoot you, wouldn't you fight back or preemptively start killing the odd men in green cloth?

Anyway, I would guess (see that? I'm covering myself!) that the G-Man thinks Adrian knows too much thanks to him seeing the nuke be reactivated.

As for the nuking itself, or why... since most of the game takes place after the Nihilanth dies and presumably after Earth is proper ****ed thanks to the portal storms and all, isn't it possible that the G-Man is aware of what will end up happening and that he destroys Black Mesa to keep the Combine from being able to waltz into its remains and grab the teleportation technology that was being developed there? The G-Man, for some reason or another, needs/wants the events of HL2 to transpire. They can't if the Combine already has the Xen relay teleporation tech.

Edit: All of that as opposed to it being just a government coverup or something along those lines.

...I'm not very good at fleshing out my arguments, but it's something! I demand a cookie.
 
If Sheppard were to be re-introduced, he wouldn't necessarily be a player character. In fact, he'd work far better as an NPC.

Maybe have him start off as an antagonist, a tool of GMan to reclaim his favourite agent/get revenge for his plans being screwed up. Have the Vorts make allusions to another from BM being bought back into the fray, and that he's tracking you (while being no friendlier to the combine than Freeman, of course). Combat wouldn't have to occur for him to be an antagonist. There could always be something preventing it, much like how you'd never come DIRECTLY in contact with Gman in HL1. There'd always be something of a gap, an obstacle etc.
Perhaps later, he could be captured by the resistance, interrogated, have his personality fleshed out a bit.
It could even be an opportunity to explain away Race-X with a mere off-the-cuff comment from a Vort.....

Hell, perhaps have him faced with a choice as a minor plot point.
He could end up in a situation where he could complete his contract (your capture/termination), but is convinced not to, either by reason, or by more pressing matters, like a Combine assault.
Hell, maybe there came a point earlier where you saved his ass in a similar situation.

He wouldn't have to be a major character. More of a cameo, just to get closure, as has been said. Maybe have him killed off.....maybe have him join the resistance as a squad leader or something. Either way, an easy exit strategy for his involvement in the plot.

In fact, as far as closure goes, a few lines of dialogue from a Vort (who seem to know these things) would do.
Just seems better than leaving him hanging in dimensional limbo for the rest of the story. I don't like loose ends.

Could be interesting.
 
bboymatty said:
To all these people who just say "OMG OP4 TOTALLY SUCKED NOOB ASS" i get the impression that you all would rather have never played the game, rather than actually play it and find something nice to say about it..... *snip*
Correction, I have played all of Op4 before. However how good Op4 was is not the primary issue here but rather Shephard's significance to the HL story. Based on my time over at the Black Mesa mod forums, I have judged Shephard's contribution to be too little to justify him coming back. Any future expansions will have far greater potential if they used the POV of a new character. Let's create new characters rather than fall back on the overrated Shephard.

Flyingdebris said:
I'd like to see something involving adrian if only for closure..... *snip*
I think Shephard being left in limbo is a good amount of closure for him. I don't see people demanding closure for Doctors Cross & Green, and they provided Freeman with behind-the-scenes aid which can't be said for this glorified Marine.

oddnerd said:
I hope to see him come back, him and Gordon would make a badass team. I imagine they wouldnt fight anymore because Shepard is , i think it is safe to say, unemployed now. What would be even awesome is playing as the black ops, maybe some of them survived.
Anticitizen One and Miss Vance make an even more badass team. Of course Shephard has never been employed; he's locked in storage for G-Man's amusement. I find a certain tragedy in how nobody gives a rat's ass for Shephard and thus he'll always be kept in limbo, and so I find that good for him. As for the Black Ops, it's safe to say that their organization must have been dissolved ever since the Universial Union took over. And surviving members would have been absorbed into either the Resistance or the Overwatch.

alphamonkey said:
Maybe have him start off as an antagonist, a tool of GMan to reclaim his favourite agent/get revenge for his plans being screwed up. Perhaps later, he could be captured by the resistance, interrogated, have his personality fleshed out a bit. Could be interesting.
I would think G-Man could come up with something way better than send one man to bring back into line his primary agent. G-Man would have to bring Anticitizen One back into stasis himself no matter what, as Shephard doesn't have these powers.
 
I hate it when people associate G-man with the Government, considering G-man isn't his name. :p

Honestly though Deus, what is the point in bringing him back? None.
 
Samon said:
I hate it when people associate G-man with the Government, considering G-man isn't his name. :p

Honestly though Deus, what is the point in bringing him back? None.
Argh with the flawed logic - Samon apply the same logic to Gordon Freeman. Halflife ended - there was no inherent need to make a sequel at all except that it would be a) a money maker and b) a good story
By extension, the same applies to Opposing Force - perhaps the only expansion FPS ever that is actually worth playing

To hate Opposing Force because it was/had
- boring...makes no sense. It was Halflife with more enemies and more combat? How can it be boring? By saying that you are ignoring the difficulty of the game, the challenge of the new hostile and divers NPCs, the use of teammates in combat. New and fun weapons. Varied maps. Atmosphere.
- storyline contrivances...makes no sense either. A little imagination goes a long way just as it did when speculating over Halflife. The teleport gun can be explained as simply a device which detected local portals and utilised them rather than actually do the teleporting itself. The new enemies can be considered combine/a seperate invasion force/original Xenians as your preference. The reason this seems to be brought up is that it appears to jarr with individual theories in halflife because alot of it is left open to interpretation - just because it doesnt suit you does not mean it is worth any less.
- crap bosses...to my mind it had 2, the last being awful admittedly and the first being a great puzzle and alot of fun. Who cares that it had laser eyes or was positioned where it was. It was fun.
- Shephard not Gordon...if that is your only reason for disliking it that just boggles the mind. You are given a chance to see the BMI from a fresh perspective and you immediately cry foul simply because it doesnt contain Gordon Freeman? It makes no sense!

End rant.

Sorry got carried away a bit :p It just irritates me when people say they love halflife and in the same breath say they hate Opposing Force particulary when their reason hold no water. Sure OPFOR wasnt exactly the second coming but neither was halflife flawless nor perfection.
I think Shephard being left in limbo is a good amount of closure for him. I don't see people demanding closure for Doctors Cross & Green, and they provided Freeman with behind-the-scenes aid which can't be said for this glorified Marine.
comments like that just don't make sense - why would you say no to playing a similar heavy combat role in halflife. It's like saying you love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches but you hate peanut butter :O
 
john3571000 said:
- crap bosses...to my mind it had 2, the last being awful admittedly and the first being a great puzzle and alot of fun. Who cares that it had laser eyes or was positioned where it was. It was fun.

It wasn't fun though. And I care. It looked crap, it was poorly designed and it was just this giant generic worm. Half-life was leaps and bounds ahead of Opposing force in terms of design. I mean, a laser eye? That's pathetic.
It's no secret that the pit drones used the exact same AI as the Bullsquid, or the shock trooper used that of the military grunts...but even in terms of design they were pretty meh. They looked as though they'd arrived out of a B-movie convention.
 
Samon said:
I hate it when people associate G-man with the Government, considering G-man isn't his name. :p

Honestly though Deus, what is the point in bringing him back? None.
In the Eurogamer interview, they mention how they intend to explain what G-Man's reaction is to Freeman's escape. I really don't see how he intends to this without TRYING to capture, or coerc Freeman back into captivity, or easier yet, use Shephard. A cool scenario comes up to me where the G-Man offers to revive Alyx if Freeman returns to him...but it's already set up where the Vortigaunts revive her.
 
To add another comment about the Nuke.

Okay so maybe the whole facility wouldn't have been destroyed by the air raid, but still the question is WHY nuke it? It won't cover-up the incident because it is still going on, and it won't stop the portals.
The only way the nuke makes sense is if you take Half Life 2 out of the story. Which brings Opposing Forces claims of being "canon" into question.

Note: Why would they have to plant a nuke anyway. Wouldn't it just be easier to launch a nuke from a nearby missile base. This isn't a real complaint against Opposing Force, I'm just wondering.
 
esplin said:
Note: Why would they have to plant a nuke anyway. Wouldn't it just be easier to launch a nuke from a nearby missile base. This isn't a real complaint against Opposing Force, I'm just wondering.
I doubt the gman has governmental/military power, however, by reading through the manuals of opposing force, it would appear he is.
 
esplin said:
To add another comment about the Nuke.

Okay so maybe the whole facility wouldn't have been destroyed by the air raid, but still the question is WHY nuke it? It won't cover-up the incident because it is still going on, and it won't stop the portals.
The only way the nuke makes sense is if you take Half Life 2 out of the story. Which brings Opposing Forces claims of being "canon" into question.

Note: Why would they have to plant a nuke anyway. Wouldn't it just be easier to launch a nuke from a nearby missile base. This isn't a real complaint against Opposing Force, I'm just wondering.
1. The reports of portal storms hadn't started coming in yet, or the storms hadn't happened yet, and
2. The Black Mesa Missile Complex might survive a nuclear attack, but not a detonation from within.
 
john3571000 said:
Sorry got carried away a bit :p It just irritates me when people say they love halflife and in the same breath say they hate Opposing Force particulary when their reason hold no water. Sure OPFOR wasnt exactly the second coming but neither was halflife flawless nor perfection. comments like that just don't make sense - why would you say no to playing a similar heavy combat role in halflife. It's like saying you love peanut butter and jelly sandwiches but you hate peanut butter :O

I guess I am being a little hard on it, but it really wasn't any better than the countless single player mods that popped up for half-life. The only thing that made me hate Opposing Force as well as other mods is the "chicken with his head cut off" syndrome.
When Half-Life begins you head for the surface, but the government is after so you head for the Lambda Complex. The scientists in the Lambda Complex inform you that their is a way to close the portals so you head to Xen.

In Opposing Force you begin by heading for the evacuation point. When you are unable to do that you...............***n around randomly till you fight the final boss? I hate mods that do this and I really don't like how Opposing Force handles it.
 
esplin said:
In Opposing Force you begin by heading for the evacuation point. When you are unable to do that you...............***n around randomly till you fight the final boss? I hate mods that do this and I really don't like how Opposing Force handles it.

No, Shephard was trying to find out why the Black Ops were at Black Mesa, and why they were killing the marines.
 
And he did not find anything except a nuke, the G-man and cheap bosses.
 
Solaris said:
I doubt the gman has governmental/military power, however, by reading through the manuals of opposing force, it would appear he is.

That is because the G-man is a Dr. Who impersonator. Psychic paper my friend.

Anyway, as for the whole Shepard debate I'm going to say what I say every time one of these threads comes up: It makes no god damn sense.

The only character worthy of a return from OP4 is Otis.
 
Don't you see, the fact that there is someone even more clueless that gordon gives valve a little more incentive to start fleshing out backstory that was normally kept clouded.

And why the hell would you not want to see the halflife setting from a different perspective? Like the one week time lapse, or maybe some other mission out in the wastes.

The thing i liked most about OP4 was that you kept hearing rumors about freeman. People were constantly talking about him, but you never knew why. It created this feeling like Shephard would want to confront freeman for answers.

Anyway did Shephard kill your father and rape your mother or something, because nothing else would really explain the anti-shepard hostilities.
 
Personally, I liked Opposing Forces and Sheperd, and while I don't think he should play a HUGE role in ever coming back, I do think he should get some scenes, maybe something on the level of an "Anti-Barney", or what other people have been suggesting, the G-Man using him to try to get back Gordon.
 
esplin said:
In Opposing Force you begin by heading for the evacuation point. When you are unable to do that you...............***n around randomly till you fight the final boss? I hate mods that do this and I really don't like how Opposing Force handles it.

Well yeah basically, after being left behind I would assume Adrian's first action would to be to start wandering around to see if he met up with any other of his fellow soldiers. I mean he was'nt going to just stand there. Also for what black op said before about the buildings being intact. (im too lazy to go back and quote it ) Well I do remember quite a few areas where the buildings were destroyed, or semi-destroyed, and besides, we already know how big the underground portion of Black mesa is. Its well..pretty big =P But we dont know how big the topside portion of it is. Don't you think its possible Adrian could..I dunno...stumble upon an area that hasnt been bombed to hell =/
 
Samon said:
Honestly though Deus, what is the point in bringing him back? None.

1. He's popular.
2. A new perspective from a popular character.

Seriously, HL2 wouldn't change much if the main character was John Doe, college dropout, messiah of humanity.
 
Flyingdebris said:
And why the hell would you not want to see the halflife setting from a different perspective? Like the one week time lapse, or maybe some other mission out in the wastes.
It's a great concept. But again: why Shepherd? Using a character already pulled into the G-Man's influence is just going to repeat a lot of themes we've already seen elsewhere. It's looking very much like we'll only get the one (if that) alternative perspective to the HL2 continuity. Why not give it to a new, potentially far more interesting character that can explore new themes, or old themes given a new twist? Like a combine soldier whose mind becomes freed in the chaos? Or a resistence fighter in another sector of the city?

First one to come up with the classic twist where Shepherd becomes a combine can be forced to stand back from their abhorably contrived creation and weep tears for their lack of common sense. Or alternatively, post the idea in the mod forum, create a website and watch as the project falls through six months later due to creative differences between themselves and the other members of their mod team (both the concept artist, a Thirteen year old across the street who looks up to you as a brother figure and likes drawing pictures of Sonic the Hedgehog in his spare time and the mapper who is also the family dog.)
john3571000 said:
Samon apply the same logic to Gordon Freeman. Halflife ended - there was no inherent need to make a sequel at all except that it would be a) a money maker and b) a good story
By extension, the same applies to Opposing Force - perhaps the only expansion FPS ever that is actually worth playing
Not quite: Every person who ever played a game set in Black Mesa knew who Gordon Freeman was (unless they knew nothing, but there's no accounting for n00bs :p). Only a fraction (and at HL2's release, I'd say a quite small fraction) knew who Shepherd was. To play Opposing Force was to play a game that directly referenced Gordon Freeman as a character. Freeman wasn't, perhaps still isn't a full formed character, but even after one appearance he was still a far more solid character than Shepherd.

As ever, my position is that if Shepherd returns, I don't give two shits. I'll play as him and it wouldn't matter that I play as him. It sure as hell makes more sense for us to play AS him than for him to be an NPC IMO, but I digress... I do however wish that Valve would prioritise other characters over his return, because I believe there could be far more interesting scenarios to explore with such characters. The entire of Shepherd's character is constituted solely of people refering to him by his name, and the fact that he is a marine is of little story value out of the context of the BM incident. Valve could salvage the character for its own sake, but there is really very little to salvage, so why not try something new?
edit:
DeusExMachina said:
1. He's popular.
So were the Backstreet Boys. You want them back too?

:p
 
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