Disappointing AI

[Loc-Dog]

Was anybody else disappointed by the AI in HL2? It is a good bit better than in most other FPS games, but it's still rather poor. There are many occasions where there is a guard standing by himself in a corridor while you're shooting at him, and he makes no attempts to take cover.

And the strangest part is that sometimes this lone guard may do a hand gesture to "signal" his team mates, even if there are none. Not to say that it would have a purpose even if there was a dossen of them. The enemies dont work as a team. They're more like brainless robots with big guns.

It would be better to raise the AI in future games. The enemies are a pretty central part of HL2, because you encounter them all the time. Wouldn't it be cool if they were treated as actual game elements, instead of just idiots? That you would need time to learn how to take them out, and have to outsmart them in order to advance in the game. And not only outsmart the enemies, but there should be situations where the enemy outsmarts you aswell (Metal Gear Solid?). They should work like a team, how else would they take over different planets in the universe?

And does anyone know who created the soundtrack for the game? It's pretty bad ass.

 

[Link]

It is a good bit better than in most other FPS games - This is the important bit. Yes, the HL2 AI, isn't fully realistic, but then neither are the graphics, the sound, the weapons, the environments, etc etc.

Basically, its a case of doing the best they can with what they have got, and as you say, its AI is still better than anything else.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure the MGS AI was so good because it was heavily scripted. As I say, could be mistaken on that.

 

[ríomhaire]

There are many occasions where there is a guard standing by himself in a corridor while you're shooting at him, and he makes no attempts to take cover.

What cover is there in a corridor?

The AI is above most games except that of FEAR. Type the following into the console and you'll respect Combine AI more
sv_cheats 1
ent_fire npc_combine_s sethealth 100

 

[Loc-Dog]

It is a good bit better than in most other FPS games - This is the important bit. Yes, the HL2 AI, isn't fully realistic, but then neither are the graphics, the sound, the weapons, the environments, etc etc.

Basically, its a case of doing the best they can with what they have got, and as you say, its AI is still better than anything else.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure the MGS AI was so good because it was heavily scripted. As I say, could be mistaken on that.

I'm not quite sure how scripts work, and what they're limited to. They behave very realisticlly in firefights, no matter the area. They can even sneak up on you and run around areas to come from different directions. But i suppose it's much easier to make, considering that the areas are usually smaller than that of HL. And the engine is nowhere near as dynamic. You can't really effect and change the enviroment, so it is scripted to a degree.

HL has very little scripts, but couldn't the AI somehow be programmed into certain script-like actions? It wouldn't take much. For example if they were looking for gordon inside some kind of warehouse, with lots of containers and places to hide. They should move maybe 3-4 in a group. And instead of everyone in the group just running out from behind a corner to shoot you, one of them should peek out to check if you're there. Like soldiers would actually do.

Then you could step it up from there. They could run behind cover when you're shooting them. For example get back behind the corner and from there peek out and try to snipe you with small bursts (the exact same way that the human player would behave in that situation). Or hide behind some barrels, and then have their team mates fire at you from behind the corner so that they can fall back without getting killed. I think it would make for a more tactical and interesting game. If the enemies really put effort into it when they try to kill you.

 

[ríomhaire]

I'm not quite sure how scripts work, and what they're limited to. They behave very realisticlly in firefights, no matter the area. They can even sneak up on you and run around areas to come from different directions. But i suppose it's much easier to make, considering that the areas are usually smaller than that of HL. And the engine is nowhere near as dynamic. You can't really effect and change the enviroment, so it is scripted to a degree.

HL has very little scripts, but couldn't the AI somehow be programmed into certain script-like actions? It wouldn't take much. For example if they were looking for gordon inside some kind of warehouse, with lots of containers and places to hide. They should move maybe 3-4 in a group. And instead of everyone in the group just running out from behind a corner to shoot you, one of them should peek out to check if you're there. Like soldiers would actually do.

Then you could step it up from there. They could run behind cover when you're shooting them. For example get back behind the corner and from there peek out and try to snipe you with small bursts (the exact same way that the human player would behave in that situation). Or hide behind some barrels, and then have their team mates fire at you from behind the corner so that they can fall back without getting killed. I think it would make for a more tactical and interesting game. If the enemies really put effort into it when they try to kill you.

Play FEAR. The way the AI works in HL2(and FEAR aswell I think) is that it uses hint nodes that are placed on the map. An example like a mapper marks this spot as good cover or this spot as a good shooting location.
And the AI works in teams in HL2, very well I might add.

 

[RandomX]

Think of how many people would be crying "this game's too hard omgwtf waaaaah" if that were the case. The game has to have some form of unrealistic content in order to keep it fun. If only the AI became more complex at different difficulty levels, to keep it simple for the novice while allowing skilled players to also be challenged.

 

[Que-Ever]

Play FEAR. The way the AI works in HL2(and FEAR aswell I think) is that it uses hint nodes that are placed on the map. An example like a mapper marks this spot as good cover or this spot as a good shooting location.
And the AI works in teams in HL2, very well I might add.

I've heard that, and then that guy was atlkign about the huge battles in garrysmod... I haven't seen it. I must be doing something wrong

 

[RandomX]

How the AI can react to the player is limited by the level design. Sure there might be obvious places for them to hide and do things to make the battles more difficult, but they won't know that unless the level designers put in the AI paths where they can go.

 

[ríomhaire]

Think of how many people would be crying "this game's too hard omgwtf waaaaah" if that were the case.

It is highly realistic at this stage. Only way to make it moreso is to have the Overwatch much more accurate than rebels and the HEV suit not as powerful. The health of the soldiers and the AI is quite realistic. The only thing that needs to be addressed is the damage you take and how the resistance are almost as good with weapons(and health) as soldiers.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

If you're complaining about poor AI, try sitting down and reading the code. See how much work actually went into it.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[ríomhaire]

I've heard that, and then that guy was atlkign about the huge battles in garrysmod... I haven't seen it. I must be doing something wrong

bind p "ent_setname team1"
bind o "ent_setname team2"
ent_fire team1 setsquad 1
ent_fire team2 setsquad 2
(both teams will have to be Combine. There is a code -"setrelationship" but I can't rember how to work it- to make them enemies)

Or something along those lines.

Edit: And it won't work as well in gm_construct or maps with no actual fighting because there will be no hint nodes.

 

[Loc-Dog]

Play FEAR. The way the AI works in HL2(and FEAR aswell I think) is that it uses hint nodes that are placed on the map. An example like a mapper marks this spot as good cover or this spot as a good shooting location.
And the AI works in teams in HL2, very well I might add.

I'm downloading the FEAR demo right now to check it out. I think that that's also how much of the Metal Gear AI works (same principle at least). It's a good system in terms of gameplay, but perhaps scripts are a necessety when they want to make things more realistic?

 

[ECUnlimited]

I thought the AI was amazing in Half Life 2. The only AI thats better then HL2's was F.E.A.R.

I've only played it on easy and I thought the AI was done really well. Playing it on hard they react to everything you do, pretty much.

 

[ríomhaire]

I thought the AI was amazing in Half Life 2. The only AI thats better then HL2's was F.E.A.R.

I've only played it on easy and I thought the AI was done really well. Playing it on hard they react to everything you do, pretty much.

Yeah, except sometimes they shout "he's trying to flank!" when you aren't even moving.

 

[gurra]

Their "intelligence" depends much on how well info_nodes and hints are placed. And they can't dynamically use prop_physics for cover (I'm talking about combine troops now of course), which is a pity. But overall I think the HL2 AI is pretty good.

However, combine soldiers and metrocops are easy to kill due to low health and they aim terribly, and doesn't inflict that much damage when they actually hit something. That's their most obvious weakness. And they could use grenades better, by not blowing themselves up all the time in particular.

It would be nice if there where parts and situations in the game where you'd actually would want to avoid contact, instead of always engage the enemies without thinking about it first. But you don't need to think like that now because the enemies are so easy too kill, so... why not kill them?

 

[ríomhaire]

Their "intelligence" depends much on how well info_nodes and hints are placed. And they can't dynamically use prop_physics for cover (I'm talking about combine troops now of course), which is a pity. But overall I think the HL2 AI is pretty good.

However, combine soldiers and metrocops are easy to kill due to low health and they aim terribly, and doesn't inflict that much damage when they actually hit something. That's their most obvious weakness. And they could use grenades better, by not blowing themselves up all the time in particular.

It would be nice if there where parts and situations in the game where you'd actually would want to avoid contact, instead of always engage the enemies without thinking about it first. But you don't need to think like that now because the enemies are so easy too kill, so... why not kill them?

The nading has been improved with the updates. And I think the solution is not to give the soldiers more health but rather you less.

 

[Loc-Dog]

I think the FEAR A.I is pretty good for an FPS. I played the demo on Hard, and they're pretty interesting to fight. But there was alot of stuff that didn't add up. For example there was a room with an office in it, with glass windows. One guard outside and one inside the office.

I shot they guy who was outside before he noticed me, and then his friend jumped out through the window and started shooting. Instead of shooting from cover.

In another area there were six enemies to kill. It was kind of a storage room or kitchen or something. What they did was that everybody would hide behind the corners. And then just one or two of them would pop out and run straight towards you, blasting their guns. Maybe it's just some bad scripting, or because it was a demo level or something. But other than that they were pretty good. Except you needed like 300 bullets to kill each one

 

[Sufferin-rebel]

Source engine capablitles are much more.. If you get the A.I workin at its VERY BEST.. It could rival F.E.AR

 

[$kelet0r]

check out minerva metastsis to see hl2 ai at its best
it's still very flawed and the combine are often very stupid but its excellence is immediately apparent in areas where there are 2 entrances / exits to a position

its very hard to test the combine ai to the full because they are scripted to get in close and fight - so they suck against antlionguards and the rebels cause much more damage to the combine with their weapons

 

[G-Dub]

If you're complaining about poor AI, try sitting down and reading the code. See how much work actually went into it.

-Angry Lawyer

QFT man; people don't seem to think about the work that goes into these games :hmph:

 

[gurra]

The nading has been improved with the updates. And I think the solution is not to give the soldiers more health but rather you less.

Well I agree, but that discussion is off topic.

 

[ríomhaire]

I think the FEAR A.I is pretty good for an FPS. I played the demo on Hard, and they're pretty interesting to fight. But there was alot of stuff that didn't add up. For example there was a room with an office in it, with glass windows. One guard outside and one inside the office.

I shot they guy who was outside before he noticed me, and then his friend jumped out through the window and started shooting. Instead of shooting from cover.

In another area there were six enemies to kill. It was kind of a storage room or kitchen or something. What they did was that everybody would hide behind the corners. And then just one or two of them would pop out and run straight towards you, blasting their guns. Maybe it's just some bad scripting, or because it was a demo level or something. But other than that they were pretty good. Except you needed like 300 bullets to kill each one

Yeah, aparantly

Spoiler

clone physcic controlled

soldiers like to jump through windows a bit too much.

 

[[eXp]Grey]

hm i dont think the HL2 is that bad, its overall standard FPS ai as in other games ... the see you, the shoot, they walk - they dont dodge, they barely using cover and they dont aim very well.
But with the animation, the sound and the overall look of HL2, i must say that it did not realy matter to me.
Ive played it at HARD and it was allright, some few level forced me to reload quite often but the most time it was a straight forward gameplay.


the FEAR ai rocks indeed. But there are other circumstances which makes the AI a key-feature of FEAR.

 

[Puzzlemaker]

Play Anti-Citezen one and Follow Freeman on hard and tell me the AI is bad. Then go play Minverva Metastasis on Hard and tell me the AI is bad. Then go play lost coast on Hard and tell me the AI is bad.

 

[wilka91]

yes, HL2 AI is teh suck

 

[wilka91]

Play Anti-Citezen one and Follow Freeman on hard and tell me the AI is bad. Then go play Minverva Metastasis on Hard and tell me the AI is bad. Then go play lost coast on Hard and tell me the AI is bad.

it has nothing to do with the AI

the combine just stand still waiting for their execution ... you throw a grenade at them, they stand still and wait for their death

even in HALO 1 the aliens are diving away from grenades!

 

[Beerdude26]

it has nothing to do with the AI

the combine just stand still waiting for their execution ... you throw a grenade at them, they stand still and wait for their death

even in HALO 1 the aliens are diving away from grenades!

Have you tried the thing what riomhaire said? The making of a squad and letting them loose on pinned down rebels? You'll be surprised how well they work together.

I can't find the thread, but there was this guy that did this and he had a movie of it and it was incredible :O

 

[Angry Lawyer]

yes, HL2 AI is teh suck

OHNOES! SOMEONE WITH NO ****ING CLUE AT ALL!

-Angry Lawyer

 

[^Ben]

Fear had great looking AI because the levels where extremly "corridor" based which could lead to some smart looking situations.

HL2 had very open levels which does not show off the AI very well.

And wilka stop playing the game on easy, everybody elses combines ran away from grenades.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Fear also used a lot of scripted nodes.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Flyingdebris]

The Fear AI was really good. My only beef was that you could only score 1 shot kill headshots on enemies that are unaware of you. As soon as they notice you, it could take 3 headshots from FEAR's equivalent of the hl2 crossbow to take them out.

But man when you listen to their chatter and it goes like

"Where did he go!?"
"He's in the cubicle!"
"Fire in the hole!"

thats some good AI.

I was also impressed by their ability to go prone or crouched to get through low areas. Most AI enemies would stand there retardedly. The FEAR soldiers actually ducked down.

FEAR ai + hl2 setting = t3h 0rgasm!c

 

[Space Farm]

I loved playing HL2 and trying to get my squadmates killed my sending them near hoppers and trapping them with boxes and bins and setting the hopper off.

Sending them to where the combine would grenade them was also quite fun.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

But man when you listen to their chatter and it goes like

"Where did he go!?"
"He's in the cubicle!"
"Fire in the hole!"

thats some good AI.

That's done through some nifty scripting. The NPC does a check, and in the cubicles, there are hint brushes saying "This is a cubicle". So it gets passed to the NPC, and they register a little "ZOMG! CUBICLE! GRENADE!" sequence.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Puzzlemaker]

That's done through some nifty scripting. The NPC does a check, and in the cubicles, there are hint brushes saying "This is a cubicle". So it gets passed to the NPC, and they register a little "ZOMG! CUBICLE! GRENADE!" sequence.

-Angry Lawyer

How exactly does the AI work in HL2? Do they automatically find cover or do you have to set the cover nodes in the map? What about props, do they automatically take cover behind props?

 

[Flyingdebris]

i think its a node based thing like was previously said.

another thing about the fear AI i liked was how they communicated. If one of the soldiers couldn't find cover they'd say it. If the soldiers were trying to be stealthy and one of them would shout a question, another soldier would say "shut your f*cking mouth!"

The fact that they will more often than not wait for your to come to them rather than running idiotically for you is great too....I need to play again...

 

[Loc-Dog]

FEAR seems like a pretty awsome game. I wish i had a better computer.

 

[SimonomiS]

Funny that, before release all the hype about FEAR that I was hearing was all about the graphics, not a word on the AI.

 

[ralfsmith]

Can you provide me more information on this matter?

[email protected]

[email protected]

 

[Angry Lawyer]

How exactly does the AI work in HL2? Do they automatically find cover or do you have to set the cover nodes in the map? What about props, do they automatically take cover behind props?

Both done in almost exactly the same way. They can find cover on their own (the engine looks for a node that las LOS blocked between it and the enemy) and the creature will pathfind there. Certain nodes (Hint Nodes) can be marked as better for cover, or prompt the NPC to do a special action. In HL2, this allowed certain areas to be marked as "Low cover", to encourage a unit to crouch more often.

HL2, as far as I know, doesn't really use props in its searching for cover algorithms. But, I'd assume it'd be pretty easy to implement. It likely didn't get added due to the fact the gravity gun tends to be used alot, and no prop can be counted as cover, because it tends to be an enemy.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Puzzlemaker]

Both done in almost exactly the same way. They can find cover on their own (the engine looks for a node that las LOS blocked between it and the enemy) and the creature will pathfind there. Certain nodes (Hint Nodes) can be marked as better for cover, or prompt the NPC to do a special action. In HL2, this allowed certain areas to be marked as "Low cover", to encourage a unit to crouch more often.

HL2, as far as I know, doesn't really use props in its searching for cover algorithms. But, I'd assume it'd be pretty easy to implement. It likely didn't get added due to the fact the gravity gun tends to be used alot, and no prop can be counted as cover, because it tends to be an enemy.

-Angry Lawyer

So its a mix?

Interesting...

I have been thinking about AI... And I noticed that there really arn't many RTS-type AI's, which would be really cool. What I mean by that is an AI that plays the game as a RTS; leading the troops around to try and take down a group of players playing the FPS. There are some mods out there doing this, zombie master one of them, but there arn't many AI-based ones. It would be a great addition.