Disappointing AI

[JAVA]

I thought the AI in Half Life 2 was pretty good, besidest he fact that the mighty cps never did run from any fire or try to use any cover.......on my xbox splinter cell chaos theory has great AI, when you spook them they of course go to investigate, but if you scare them, they grab flashlights and bullet proof vests not to mention they grab better guns and use swat like methods when entering rooms. Halo also had great AI, when ever you killed a captain or strong warrior the grunts always fled its funny, when you killed a hunter's comrade, he stopped using his weapon and just charged destroying everything in his path, elites were kinda stupid because they stand and either slide side to side or take all of your fire....brutes will drop their weapon and fight you hand to hand if they get hurt to much....but anyways, I thought the AI in half life 2 was great with the striders or elite combine because they swarmed you pretty well..it could still be better though...

 

[Angry Lawyer]

So its a mix?

Interesting...

I have been thinking about AI... And I noticed that there really arn't many RTS-type AI's, which would be really cool. What I mean by that is an AI that plays the game as a RTS; leading the troops around to try and take down a group of players playing the FPS. There are some mods out there doing this, zombie master one of them, but there arn't many AI-based ones. It would be a great addition.

I'll be doing AI opponents for Conquest: City 17

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Flyingdebris]

you know, now that you mentioned the ai rts treatment, i can see how that would be incredibly awesome.

Just imagine if hl2 in addition to having certain enemies just sort of hanging around, that the game simulated the citadel actively sending troops out to get you. As in there was an actual AI program at work trying to stop you and track you down instead of just scripted scenes and local npcs.

the game would have a lot more replayablility

 

[Puzzlemaker]

you know, now that you mentioned the ai rts treatment, i can see how that would be incredibly awesome.

Just imagine if hl2 in addition to having certain enemies just sort of hanging around, that the game simulated the citadel actively sending troops out to get you. As in there was an actual AI program at work trying to stop you and track you down instead of just scripted scenes and local npcs.

the game would have a lot more replayablility

I know! It would be totally sweet! And if they made a part of it non-linear... you could have a part where you where actually activly hunted by the combine. That would be fun.

Now what about Conquest: City 17?

 

[Beerdude26]

I'll be doing AI opponents for Conquest: City 17

-Angry Lawyer

But then the game will be so hard only you and short recoil will be able to beat it D:

 

[Flyingdebris]

well if the game was significantly more nonlinear you'd be more able to employ stealth. Just because gunships and apcs are sent to where you are suspected of being doesn't necessarily mean they will find you.

I can just imagine.

Lets just say that areas under combine control (combine outposts) and scanners serve as the eyes of the AI. Depending on the area you are traveling through, the ai would use different means of trying to stop you.

like having troops come down in rappel ropes, striders deployed on your position, CPs catching up with you on foot, headcrab airstrikes, deploying gunships and apcs. Snipers being setup on rooftops.

It'd be a helluva lot to code, but damn, it'd be so awesome to have the computer actively conspiring against you so that if you were to stand still after clearing out enemies, you'd have to deal with more soldiers looking for you coming on your position.

 

[Jintor]

A-greed.

But then you'd have to have Battlefield-esque maps, instead of the ok-ish railroad types we have now.

 

[15357]

I think the AI is fine, but could do with some "surrender" AI for the CPs. Like when they're outnumbered or you catch them by surprise.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

I think the AI is fine, but could do with some "surrender" AI for the CPs. Like when they're outnumbered or you catch them by surprise.

People would complain at that. It'd make them seem *too* human, which would make shooting them a rather morally bad thing to do.

And then you'd get people complaining "ZOMG TOO EASY THEY JUST DROP THERE GUNZ AND PUT DER HAND BEHIND THE HED TOO EASY TO SHOOT LIK DAT"

-Angry Lawyer

 

[AzzMan]

The only problem I had with HL2 AI is they ALWAYS seemed to know exactly where you were hiding, where in FEAR theres plenty of places to hide and lose them. Now dont get me wrong I thought HL2 ai was pretty good, but I think FEAR beats it in that category. Now if Valve gave the combine AI equal to FEAR's in AM:mg creams pants::

 

[Jintor]

FEAR AI definitely beat HL2's... but then again it came out nearly a full 10 months afterwards.

 

[15357]

People would complain at that. It'd make them seem *too* human, which would make shooting them a rather morally bad thing to do.

And then you'd get people complaining "ZOMG TOO EASY THEY JUST DROP THERE GUNZ AND PUT DER HAND BEHIND THE HED TOO EASY TO SHOOT LIK DAT"

-Angry Lawyer

Well, they are human, and I always thought it was morally bad to shoot them.....

 

[Puzzlemaker]

well if the game was significantly more nonlinear you'd be more able to employ stealth. Just because gunships and apcs are sent to where you are suspected of being doesn't necessarily mean they will find you.

I can just imagine.

Lets just say that areas under combine control (combine outposts) and scanners serve as the eyes of the AI. Depending on the area you are traveling through, the ai would use different means of trying to stop you.

like having troops come down in rappel ropes, striders deployed on your position, CPs catching up with you on foot, headcrab airstrikes, deploying gunships and apcs. Snipers being setup on rooftops.

It'd be a helluva lot to code, but damn, it'd be so awesome to have the computer actively conspiring against you so that if you were to stand still after clearing out enemies, you'd have to deal with more soldiers looking for you coming on your position.

Ya it would. Valve should make HL3 like this.

 

[jondy]

Well, they are human, and I always thought it was morally bad to shoot them.....

Some of them are human

 

[PvtRyan]

The only problem I had with HL2 AI is they ALWAYS seemed to know exactly where you were hiding, where in FEAR theres plenty of places to hide and lose them. Now dont get me wrong I thought HL2 ai was pretty good, but I think FEAR beats it in that category. Now if Valve gave the combine AI equal to FEAR's in AM:mg creams pants::

I noticed the exact opposite: they would lose you. In the coast chapter I lost the combine by running into the house and hiding in a small room. Combine started walking around and inside the house, until one had spotted me through the window, and he informed the others.

Best AI I've seen so far is the CS:Source bot AI, simply amazing. Also very nice how you can generate the AI files on a custom map by simply adding bots to it, no need to place nodes. I played on servers where I didn't know half of my opponents were bots until I looked on the scorescreen. They can do everything a player can except shoot through walls/doors.

 

[Muffin Man]

I actually thought the AI was great and it was a very enjoyable and replayable game. but then again i dont go analyzing everything saying, "hey, shouldn't he be behind that box?!?!?!?!" i just shoot him and keep running. And i'm not sure combine would surrender anyway as they are part of a huge alien army bent on eradicating all rebel life, most organizations like that frown upon their little evil minion dudes cowering in fear. and if they sent an APC or gunship out to find you and it didn't then how would you know it was sent out in the first place? perhaps they sent out a bunch and only a few found you? come on guys use some imagination, its a game. have fun with it, don't analyze it just enjoy it.

EDIT : oh yeah and i agree with angry lawyer, if you don't think the AI is good enough, then sit down, learn to program, get a dev team. start work on a great fps game get published and see if through all that you can figure out a way to revolutionise the current AI systems we know. If you do it i think it would be sweet, so I really think you should try. but don't sit there and complain that somebody who actually took some initiative didnt get it the way you like it.

 

[Darkwolf]

Both done in almost exactly the same way. They can find cover on their own (the engine looks for a node that las LOS blocked between it and the enemy) and the creature will pathfind there. Certain nodes (Hint Nodes) can be marked as better for cover, or prompt the NPC to do a special action. In HL2, this allowed certain areas to be marked as "Low cover", to encourage a unit to crouch more often.

HL2, as far as I know, doesn't really use props in its searching for cover algorithms. But, I'd assume it'd be pretty easy to implement. It likely didn't get added due to the fact the gravity gun tends to be used alot, and no prop can be counted as cover, because it tends to be an enemy.

-Angry Lawyer

HL2 DOES use props as cover. I discovered it during nova prospect, in the area where you have to fight off Combine soldiers, and there are 4 entrances for them, and you've only got 3 turrets.

I found that if you pile barrels and crates (props of sufficient size) in front of the entrances, the soldiers wont move or destroy them, and crouch behind them for cover. However they sometimes smash the crates or blow the barrels away while shooting at me.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Then I have been proven wrong. I think it's still dependant on nodes, though - you just so happened to place the boxes in front of some hint nodes. But yes, the cover algorithm is to find a point where the player can't draw a direct line to the centre of the character's torso.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[$kelet0r]

Then I have been proven wrong. I think it's still dependant on nodes, though - you just so happened to place the boxes in front of some hint nodes. But yes, the cover algorithm is to find a point where the player can't draw a direct line to the centre of the character's torso.

-Angry Lawyer

aka BOOM HEADSHOT!!!

 

[[eXp]Grey]

PvtRyan

Best AI I've seen so far is the CS:Source bot AI, simply amazing. Also very nice how you can generate the AI files on a custom map by simply adding bots to it, no need to place nodes. I played on servers where I didn't know half of my opponents were bots until I looked on the scorescreen. They can do everything a player can except shoot through walls/doors.

oh now youre kidding ... css ai and good ? they are behaving like early POD bot versions.

aiming like a computer (about prox. 900m headshot with a crapy pistol ... wow that definatly speaks for "AI"), but thinking like ... a stone ... or maybe a chair ... anything with no brain. (speaking of "expert" settings)

 

[Darkwolf]

Then I have been proven wrong. I think it's still dependant on nodes, though - you just so happened to place the boxes in front of some hint nodes. But yes, the cover algorithm is to find a point where the player can't draw a direct line to the centre of the character's torso.

-Angry Lawyer

I'm not entirely sure it was infront of hint nodes, because the boxes were IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DOORWAY and the guys properly hid behind them. aka. crouched and chucked grenades at my turrets. (whereby i picked it up and threw it back)

Yeah but back to the point, why would the makers put a node right in the middle of a doorway, also, if the baxes arn't there they normally just burst in or hide around the corner.

So yeah, i think it might just use LOS for the 'cover' algorithm.

-D

 

[$kelet0r]

css is very polished but very primitive ai - it cannot coordinate as a team, communicate or understand basic tactics like flanking
its gun and run ai at its best
not helped of course by the computer perfect aiming

 

[Angry Lawyer]

If they walked through the doorway, and stopped at any point in which to turn, it has nodes. Nodes are used for finding corners, too.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[r2000]

Was anybody else disappointed by the AI in HL2? It is a good bit better than in most other FPS games, but it's still rather poor. There are many occasions where there is a guard standing by himself in a corridor while you're shooting at him, and he makes no attempts to take cover.

And the strangest part is that sometimes this lone guard may do a hand gesture to "signal" his team mates, even if there are none. Not to say that it would have a purpose even if there was a dossen of them. The enemies dont work as a team. They're more like brainless robots with big guns.

It would be better to raise the AI in future games. The enemies are a pretty central part of HL2, because you encounter them all the time. Wouldn't it be cool if they were treated as actual game elements, instead of just idiots? That you would need time to learn how to take them out, and have to outsmart them in order to advance in the game. And not only outsmart the enemies, but there should be situations where the enemy outsmarts you aswell (Metal Gear Solid?). They should work like a team, how else would they take over different planets in the universe?

And does anyone know who created the soundtrack for the game? It's pretty bad ass.

Thats true.
At the same time, your far tougher in HL2 on hard, then you were on normal in HL1. In hl1 it was very easy to die, because you had weak health and shields. Not so in HL2. Thats why the AI seems stupider.