Earthlings

Gray Fox

Gray Fox

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[GVIDEO]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1282796533661048967&q=earthlings[/GVIDEO]
 
I've seen it before, think it was posted here long before the video forum was here.

But it's really a sad video, we're so mean to ourselves, other animals and the planet itself.
 
:( i've only watched like 10 minutes so far, god damn those guys who threw the dog into the garbage truck.
 
Watch when a chinese pulls the skin of a dog and the dog is still alive even when all of it's skin is removed.
 
Holy ****.

Still watching, this is jaw-dropping. And stomache turning.

It's making me think about some things. I asked the question, "how has this been going on for so long" or "why is it that humans are omnivores"

And I realised that ultimately, the only reason videos like this disturb us is because we are giving in to our emotions. Watching an animal struggle or squeel, our emotions get the best of us and we immediately have a sense of hate toward whoever is causing it. We know they can feel pain, we know the concept of exploiting a weaker species seems wrong, but it all boils down to emotion. But that brings up the question of, "do we want to get rid of this emotion" for the sake of our own conscience?

Putting a stop to all of this is incredibly unlikely, so that may be our only choice. (If we want to make a change)

Edit: Omg, the little chicks :( :( :(
This is where my emotions are really hitting me hard. I can't stop thinking about my pet parrot. Which makes me realise that losing compassion for animals would be paradoxial to having a pet. We wouldn't have a desire to own pets if we didn't have feelings for animals.

Quite a difficult situation.

Would we feel so bad about this if animals couldn't show their pain?

Another thing to point out is how we show different levels of compassion for different types of animals, solely on their appearance or they way they show pain. Would you rather see a cute little puppy with a fish hook through its cheek, or a fish in the same situation? This is why fishing is a fairly common sport.

Aliens looking upon how we react to this might call us foolish for letting emotions get the best of us so easily.

But who is to say what is right.

Edit: Holy ****, the skinning.
 
I couldn't watch the bits with the dogs. I love dogs to bit and it just hurts to see what they did to them, skipped past those bits. Evil bastards.
 
Phoenix and Moby, win. Watching now.

EDIT: Wow. This really hits home.

EDIT 2: I'm only beginning the poultry part and I'm almost to tears.
 
where did the cows go at the "knocking boxes" part??
 
Finished. Ending does a good job of wrapping up stuff and addressing burning questions, like those in my post. Indeed, compassion is what makes us humans, and ignoring it for the sake of a good conscience as we cause other creatures so much pain is a terrible option.

Severely changing our diets and other activities to rid the world of these terrible acts will be one of the most difficult things humans will ever have to do, if we ever actually do.

There is hope for it. Think about the advances in media. It would not have been possible (or at least, not as likely) for us to see things like the things we did in that video if the internet or videos didn't exist. Technology is the death of ignorance. Perhaps some day we'll have enough capability to make everyone aware that we indeed can make incredible changes to our nature.

Though the fact that we have such drastically different levels of compassion toward different animals solely based on their appearance and manner of expression, still irks me. Why do we? What does this mean? Perhaps this is another change humans must undergo. Equal respect and feeling for all beings.

This is a lot to think about.
 
Wolfgang Puck recently switched to ... natural meat for all of his restaurants. Natural meat meaning that all meat he serves in his restaurants come from free roam farms where even though the end is the same (death) they still get to live a life. More companies and restaurants need to do this. It will send a message that people don't want these conditions for animals.
 
Saw this before and my opinion of it hasn't changed.

Images of animal abuse should generate an emotional response from you. And so it should offend your sensibilities that this film exploits those images in order to take hold of your kneejerk reaction and convince you to sign up with PETA. The fact is that although I like Mr. Phoenix as an actor, his animal rights activism is just as certifiably insane as the next PETA nut's. And he is trying to suck you into that insanity by taking advantage of your emotions.

Before I'm accused of being heartless, know that I am huge dog lover. The sight of a wounded or tortured canine disturbs me on such a deep level that it can give me nightmares. So there were certainly powerful scenes in the film, but I never came across an honest rationale for their display.

I don't know what this film's message could possibly be other than "Animal abuse happens". There's paper-thin evidence that kicking the shit out of and skinning animals is standard practice. There isn't some systematic protocol of animal abuse. What the film tries to do is convince you that this footage of people hurting and killing animals in cruel ways is the rule, not the exception. It hopes that, in your moment of weakness while watching a dog get carelessly discarded like a piece of trash, that you'll renounce your life of carnivorous dieting and leap onto the same crazy ideological boat with the rest of the activists.

The movie is just a collection of footage showing animals dying. And while that does indeed suck, the motives behind making it are cheap, dirty, and incoherent. It just wants to scare you. **** that.
 
I'm not watching that. Why? Because I know what it contains, roughly.

I've known many vegetarians in my time. They complain that we kill animals to eat. I argue that they at least had the life they had, which they wouldn't have had if vegetarianism was universal.

This is the cheapest way to produce meat. Producing meat is a business. If every person on the planet only bought from farmers that used "free range" animals, people would forget, eventually, and someone would "come up with" the idea of farming this way.

By all means, make your stand, buy only the meat that is produced in humane ways, its important that you stand by your principles.

Just don't expect it to make a difference in the long run.

For all those that will love to hate me for this, I don't care, about you or the animals, I'm simply giving you the truth.
 
Link said:
I'm not watching that. Why? Because I know what it contains, roughly.

I've known many vegetarians in my time. They complain that we kill animals to eat. I argue that they at least had the life they had, which they wouldn't have had if vegetarianism was universal.

This is the cheapest way to produce meat. Producing meat is a business. If every person on the planet only bought from farmers that used "free range" animals, people would forget, eventually, and someone would "come up with" the idea of farming this way.

By all means, make your stand, buy only the meat that is produced in humane ways, its important that you stand by your principles.

Just don't expect it to make a difference in the long run.

For all those that will love to hate me for this, I don't care, about you or the animals, I'm simply giving you the truth.
Click to expand...
You're not giving us the truth, you're hiding behind ignorance ignorance, the movie exactly addresses the attitude you have.

Absinthe said:
Saw this before and my opinion of it hasn't changed.

Images of animal abuse should generate an emotional response from you. And so it should offend your sensibilities that this film exploits those images in order to take hold of your kneejerk reaction and convince you to sign up with PETA. The fact is that although I like Mr. Phoenix as an actor, his animal rights activism is just as certifiably insane as the next PETA nut's. And he is trying to suck you into that insanity by taking advantage of your emotions.

Before I'm accused of being heartless, know that I am huge dog lover. The sight of a wounded or tortured canine disturbs me on such a deep level that it can give me nightmares. So there were certainly powerful scenes in the film, but I never came across an honest rationale for their display.

I don't know what this film's message could possibly be other than "Animal abuse happens". There's paper-thin evidence that kicking the shit out of and skinning animals is standard practice. There isn't some systematic protocol of animal abuse. What the film tries to do is convince you that this footage of people hurting and killing animals in cruel ways is the rule, not the exception. It hopes that, in your moment of weakness while watching a dog get carelessly discarded like a piece of trash, that you'll renounce your life of carnivorous dieting and leap onto the same crazy ideological boat with the rest of the activists.

The movie is just a collection of footage showing animals dying. And while that does indeed suck, the motives behind making it are cheap, dirty, and incoherent. It just wants to scare you. **** that.
Click to expand...
Whats wrong with appealing to your emotions, emotions help me understand other better then my mind ever could on it's own. People often accuse peta and others of personification of animals. I say bullshit, animals do have personalities, it's exactly the opposite. We try to distance ourselves from animals and their faith trough objectification and depersonalization. Just as we did with black people( ******s), azians(chinks), arabs(sand ******s) to make it easier to kill and enslave them.
My emotions are the result of 600 million years of evolution, and if those emotions are telling me this is wrong, then it's ****ing wrong.
The video is as cheap, dirty and incoherent as the video's showing us the fate of jews in nazi concentration camps or murders in Rwanda. In that case I'd rather have dirty nasty cheap incoherent video then a watered down version that pretends not to speak to our emotions.
 
Ah yes Absinthe, I was thinking about that while watching. This video shocks you and tries to grab you while you are vulnerable.

Though I wouldn't say getting you to become a vegetarian is the only outcome. This video spreads information and awareness as well. I'm not going to change the way I eat or anything because of the video, but at least I am aware.
 
The corporate farm is here to stay, and it values speed and efficiency over pointlessly torturing animals. This film would have had some level of credibility if - say - it had employed a random sampling technique. But it's deliberately choosing the most gut-wrenching footage, which unfortunately for Phoenix is only a minority of cases with pets and the food industry.
 
Absinthe said:
The corporate farm is here to stay, and it values speed and efficiency over pointlessly torturing animals. This film would have had some level of credibility if - say - it had employed a random sampling technique. But it's deliberately choosing the most gut-wrenching footage, which unfortunately for Phoenix is only a minority of cases with pets and the food industry.
Click to expand...

You got any proof that those video's are the exception, because that movie is not the only source telling that many horrible things happen in the industry? That said I do realize I have no proof that it is common, I'm just assuming it since so many more sources tell me it is then that it isn't.

Besides even the killing of animals for food can be reasonably seen as bad. Animals may kill other animals, but they do not really have a choice, a lion does not know how to grow crops and eat a healthy diet of vegetables. We do, and yet we chose to kill thinking feeling animals just for the pleasure of their taste. And it's thus killing for fun, many of those animals are smarter then dogs or cats. Would you kill your dog or cat for fun.
 
Absinthe said:
Saw this before and my opinion of it hasn't changed.

Images of animal abuse should generate an emotional response from you. And so it should offend your sensibilities that this film exploits those images in order to take hold of your kneejerk reaction and convince you to sign up with PETA. The fact is that although I like Mr. Phoenix as an actor, his animal rights activism is just as certifiably insane as the next PETA nut's. And he is trying to suck you into that insanity by taking advantage of your emotions.

Before I'm accused of being heartless, know that I am huge dog lover. The sight of a wounded or tortured canine disturbs me on such a deep level that it can give me nightmares. So there were certainly powerful scenes in the film, but I never came across an honest rationale for their display.

I don't know what this film's message could possibly be other than "Animal abuse happens". There's paper-thin evidence that kicking the shit out of and skinning animals is standard practice. There isn't some systematic protocol of animal abuse. What the film tries to do is convince you that this footage of people hurting and killing animals in cruel ways is the rule, not the exception. It hopes that, in your moment of weakness while watching a dog get carelessly discarded like a piece of trash, that you'll renounce your life of carnivorous dieting and leap onto the same crazy ideological boat with the rest of the activists.

The movie is just a collection of footage showing animals dying. And while that does indeed suck, the motives behind making it are cheap, dirty, and incoherent. It just wants to scare you. **** that.
Click to expand...



there are some facts in it, like when it shows the biggest farms in the world using idiotic procedures.

but that's not the point.

the point is that we shouldn't be so greedy and try to prevent such atrocities as much as we can.

today we have the technology to supply us with most of our needs.

the key is to be modest, that is a virtue that most people never accept.
 
argh - who wrote the text? That was awful. It was a compelling and moving video, but everytime I got into it, the narrator would make a bad argument, stretch a generalization or otherwise say something that ruined the point of the movie. Moving, nonetheless.
 
I just finished the film; overwhelmed.

I would type out a long, detailed post combating the nay-sayers in this thread (I actually was at three paragraphs, then deleted), but I don't really care for arguing against people who are already closed minded.
 
Gray Fox said:
You got any proof that those video's are the exception, because that movie is not the only source telling that many horrible things happen in the industry? That said I do realize I have no proof that it is common, I'm just assuming it since so many more sources tell me it is then that it isn't.
Click to expand...

There needs to be evidence that this is happening systematically. Companies motivated by profit have nothing to gain from animal abuse. So even if we disregarded government regulations, it would be company policy to minimize animal suffering.

The burden of proof is not on me. If Phoenix wants to state that the animal abuse shown is as widespread and common as he'd like us to believe, he'll need to do better than carefully selecting farm footage for their shock factor. He's only showing you the ugly side of reality. God knows that two hours of watching cows chew grass wouldn't be half as riveting. Last I read, most cases of animal abuse at least in the west are either accidental or due to poor government regulation. In either case, I am completely supportive of improvement.

Besides even the killing of animals for food can be reasonably seen as bad. Animals may kill other animals, but they do not really have a choice, a lion does not know how to grow crops and eat a healthy diet of vegetables. We do, and yet we chose to kill thinking feeling animals just for the pleasure of their taste. And it's thus killing for fun, many of those animals are smarter then dogs or cats. Would you kill your dog or cat for fun.
Click to expand...

No, but then I was never brought up in a culture where dogs or cats were considered food.

The issue of whether or not eating animals is morally acceptable is quite a different from what the message the video is specifically going at ("Your local McDonalds likes to punch cows"). That's ridiculous scaremongering by activists. And in any case, the PETA solution is letting the animals run free without regulation under some strange idea of inter-species equality... which is retarded.

Qonfused said:
I just finished the film; overwhelmed.

I would type out a long, detailed post combating the nay-sayers in this thread (I actually was at three paragraphs, then deleted), but I don't really care for arguing against people who are already closed minded.
Click to expand...

Come now. Who is being close-minded? I think everybody accepts that animal abuse happens, that it's bad, and that we should take measures to minimize and prevent animal suffering (within reason). The problem is that the movie makes dishonest arguments by trying to generalize isolated, grotesque incidents and trick you into thinking that these problems are moral epidemics. They are not.
 
How do we know that these conditions aren't rampant?
 
Qonfused said:
How do we know that these conditions aren't rampant?
Click to expand...

An absence of evidence?

Yeah, yeah. "Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence", but the film on its own offers nothing to support the idea that rampant animal abuse exists. There's also no practical reason for it to be rampant. The corporate farm doesn't get a penny every time a piglet gets its legs broken. The quicker the animals die, the better. And a quicker death almost always implies a less painful one.
 
I understand your logic, and it makes sense.

I have nothing else. Like I said, I'm not up for some CptStern style multi quote debate.
 
Absinthe said:
The corporate farm doesn't get a penny every time a piglet gets its legs broken. The quicker the animals die, the better. And a quicker death almost always implies a less painful one.
Click to expand...
But sometimes the quicker and less painful methods cost more, which is indeed something the "corporate farm" doesn't like.
 
I don't quite see how. The simplest method is massive trauma to the brain. At the very least, it's a far more efficient and less time-consuming affair than something like butchering a live cow, and that can be worth the price difference.

It's more than just sheer economics too. Animal abuse is inherently a far more sloppy affair than straight-up killing the animals. Places that tolerate animal abuse can also potentially suffer from sanitary issues and even make themselves vulnerable to legal ramifications from government regulations.

There are few places I'm aware of in the west that can survive with a reputation for animal abuse. Cases of it are often found among smaller businesses that are less tightly controlled. So I certainly think a better job can be done at keeping up a minimum standard of "decency" if you'll accept that wording.
 
the first part almost made me cry, it even nailed some of the reasons why i left the pet industry. as for the rest of it...am I the only one that noticed that most of it was old videos from like 20/20 and 60 minutes? most of it was video of the worst ones out there, I assure you, most are not as bad as that vid would have you believe, most was bad employees (like the turkey stomping). the dolphin bit was video of an illegal operation. the fur industry..... ok that industry is pretty bad, but there are other ways to tan a hide that are much safer. hunting for sport is bad, I agree, but if it is a way of life, its ok, i respect a person that can do that, its not easy to live off the land. hurting animals for entertainment is bad too, but orginaizations are craking down on people that do that kind of thing (at least in the U.S.) and zoos are becoming more profiecent at meeting the needs of the animals. as for science, the government said no to testing on humans first. the human animal relationship is getting better, slowly, but it is, and if you want to help, go balistic on anyone that mistreats an animal, if they say animals can't feel pain, rip their head off. oh and the reason humans are omnivores is because we needed to be able to eat anything we could to survive back in the day, berries, insects, what little flesh was left on the bones of a carcess after another animal finished. we started to become dangerous when we picked up a stick and realized we could do something with it, before that we were easy pickins.
 
Though compelling, depressing, well-written and entirely factual, I can't say I'll give up eating meat or cease to wear leather entirely.
 
joule said:
Though compelling, depressing, well-written and entirely factual, I can't say I'll give up eating meat or cease to wear leather entirely.
Click to expand...

QFT.

I don't give a shit how they kill the animals so long as the end product is edible.
 
Gray Fox said:
Whats wrong with appealing to your emotions, emotions help me understand other better then my mind ever could on it's own. People often accuse peta and others of personification of animals. I say bullshit, animals do have personalities, it's exactly the opposite. We try to distance ourselves from animals and their faith trough objectification and depersonalization. Just as we did with black people( ******s), azians(chinks), arabs(sand ******s) to make it easier to kill and enslave them.
My emotions are the result of 600 million years of evolution, and if those emotions are telling me this is wrong, then it's ****ing wrong.
The video is as cheap, dirty and incoherent as the video's showing us the fate of jews in nazi concentration camps or murders in Rwanda. In that case I'd rather have dirty nasty cheap incoherent video then a watered down version that pretends not to speak to our emotions.
Click to expand...

This would be entirely relevant if I was supporting animal abuse.

I am not.
 
I think all Absinthe is saying is that he abuse in the video is wrong, and animal cruelty is something that needs to be addressed. But the video highly exaggerates the truth, but using a few shocking incidents to wrongly portray the whole business.
 
Krynn72 said:
I think all Absinthe is saying is that he abuse in the video is wrong, and animal cruelty is something that needs to be addressed. But the video highly exaggerates the truth, but using a few shocking incidents to wrongly portray the whole business.
Click to expand...

Bingo. The film is made to convince you into adopting a particular political standpoint. There's nothing wrong with that, but Earthlings' reasoning just doesn't add up, assuming it's trying to go anywhere at all beyond "Animal abuse happens". It doesn't provide hard data or even much of an argument. It shows graphic images in order to dupe people by exploiting their sympathy.

This is nothing short of wisdom of repugnance. This kind of appeal to emotion is fallacious and manipulative. Appeals to emotion are superficial and lacking deeper reasoning. It's the exact same thing that homophobes employ when they talk about how disgusting same sex relations are, or when pro-life groups show videos of fetuses getting destroyed in an abortion. It may not be a pretty sight, and it may very well inspire some strong emotional reactions from you. But basing entire arguments on whether or not they make you feel good or bad is very narrow-minded and shortsighted.

Promoting awareness is just a byproduct of the movie. The intent behind it is to convince you that a world of bloody horror exists behind every kitchen door. It's done well, and it can certainly be a blow to the gut. But the core message is still "meat is murder". It just hopes that you'll be quicker to adopt that stance after watching it, without applying critical thought. That's why appeals to emotion are so common and effective: Strong emotions are damn good at overriding reason.

It clearly works. In this very topic, the slaughter of animals has been compared to the Holocaust and Rwandan genocide. The chicken nugget factory is being compared to the gas chamber. What an offensive, stupid, and ignorant trivialization of real tragedies. Animals are not people. They are not equal to us.
 
Except cats. But only ones without captions on them.
 
Cats are probably the most evil species known to man. We should wipe them out for our own safety. :|
 
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