Egyptian TV Promotes Anti-American Hatred

[CptStern]

Truth is... if we just stopped helping people, we'd get just as much shit as we're getting today.

your kind of help leads to hate ..supporting murderous tyrants who imprison, torture and murder citizens isnt exactly appreciated.

People would hate us for entirely new rediculous reasons.

it is justified, not rediculous ..just because you dont understand/know about US imperialism over the last 50 + years doesnt mean it doesnt exist

 

[Raziaar]

your kind of help leads to hate ..supporting murderous tyrants who imprison, torture and murder citizens isnt exactly appreciated.

You're pretty naive if you think that is the only type of help the citizens of the united states and the government gives.

 

[CptStern]

You're pretty naive if you think that is the only type of help the citizens of the united states and the government gives.

that's the only type that is remembered generation after generation ..yesterdays support of the mujahideen led to today's al qaeda


@ irony of you calling me naive

 

[Raziaar]

that's the only type that is remembered generation after generation ..yesterdays support of the mujahideen led to today's al qaeda


@ irony of you calling me naive

And what of the countless contributions the citizens of this country have made to those unfortunate souls around the world?

Do you just brush it under the rug as if it didn't exist?

"We just want your money, give it all to us."

 

[CptStern]

And what of the countless contributions the citizens of this country have made to those unfortunate souls around the world?

..I dont see how that's at all relevant to what we're discussing. the citizens are not the government

Do you just brush it under the rug as if it didn't exist?

apples and oranges raziaar, we're not talking about individual donations here

"We just want your money, give it all to us."

oversimplified, naive, innacurate and completely inapproprate to what we're discussing here

 

[VirusType2]

Most governments are run by bastards. My government helped your government kill 30,000 civillians. That is not something I am proud of.

The only time one feels proud of its country at times of war are if it successfully defends itself.

Please Note: A casualty is not always death

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=casualty

One injured, killed, captured, or missing in action through engagement with an enemy. Often used in the plural: Battlefield casualties were high.


An accident, especially one involving serious injury or loss of life.
1 : a serious or fatal accident
2 : a military person lost through death, wounds, injury, sickness, internment, or capture or through being missing in action

1: someone injured or killed or captured or missing in a military engagement

America's current government was founded on extremely high casualties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

The [American Civil] war produced more than 970,000 casualties

The Iraq war:

At least 30,000 [Iraqi] civilian casualties

US Forces:
2,418 total deaths
17,874 combat wounded

Armed forces of other coalition countries: 220

Non Iraqi civilians:
at least 311 contractors, 87 journalists, 20 media support workers, and 150 aid workers.

wikipedia

 

[CptStern]

I think after the smoke is settled casualty figures for iraq will be approaching the half a million mark (that's a conservative figure based on available information)

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I have to say something, I lived in Cairo for fourteen years and egyptians are a friendly bunch. They love foreigners, americans and europeans alike, and they know that without them their economy will crumble. Of course there are extremists just like everywhere else in the region, but on the whole Egypt is a friend and ally of America.

So Gunner, what you're saying is the whole country of Egypt should be considered a friend and an ally despite they're own governments publications of anti-semititical and anti-american propaganda? I mean, that is what your saying we should believe, right?

Americans can't even agree with each other, why should this matter?

So what your saying is Americans can't agree with each other ... so why should this matter?

Please, be more clear, Captain M4d. You lost me on how you came to your conclusions, or how this is relevant to the discussion.

i think this is pretty disturbing stuff
Incredible this this mindless hate-discriminating-propaganda stuff is shown on TV.

Ome_Vince, this has been going on for quite awhile.

Visit: www.pmw.org.il for more information on Palestinian Authority TV.

You can't go around f****g up the world and not expect it to be a little distrorted.

I agree Solaris, but this TV program sponsored by the Egyptian Government
is not helping anyone to, 'reach for peace'. In many ways, its alarming and worrysome
to have your own ally propagate a resistance against you.

While I agree resistance could mean many things as Mecha Godzilla was clearly able to establish,
it also could mean more of the latter, where by resistance they mean attacking 'it', America, wherever it can be.

We don't threaten Egyptian territories or its government. So, why would it see it as nessecary to publish this?

I'd hate you too if I lived in the Middle East.

So what your saying is, 'If you lived in the Middle East, you'd hate other humans beings too?'

Can you tell me how anything justifies a blind hatred of a people, its children, and its culture?

If they want to make fictional movies and TV series where America is the bad guy why should I care? We make fictional movies and TV series all the time that depicts middle-easterns as the bad guys.

I don't feel like a bad guy personally. I feel like a good guy. I will assume until proven otherwise that many - if not most of their citizens are good guys as well.

Virus, they're is a difference. Our Television programming does not have its own Government openly announce we must resist and destroy 'Middle Easterner's'.
This is hate mongering propaganda, and the rhetoric used is far out sets anything American TV has published.

visit www.pmw.org.il for comparisons.

I fail to see what is so terrible about this Egyptian show (apart from the acting perhaps), sounds like the flip-side of something like 24 and its ilk.
As above, so below.

No, its different. 24 does'nt at the end of its show, make anti-semitical statements. These propaganda videos sponsored from the Egyptian Government were not intended for entertainment purposes, and how hate
can be viewed as entertainment is beyond anyone here with a sober mind.
These hate videos were intended to be clear messages against Israel and the Western World.

visit www.pmw.org.il for more Palestinian, Egyptian, Jordanian, Syrian Propaganda against the West.

Maybe we should get the **** out of their countries and leave them to their business instead of imposing our idiot government's will all over them, eh?

Barbs of a personal nature will not afflict the present reality.

I think the US should become isolationist again. We're damned if we do anything, damned if we don't, I think it'll be safer if we don't do anything.

Maybe everyone will stop bothering us too.

So it seems.

Becoming isolationist is an option. Or they could just stop invading middle-eastern countries under the guise of freedom and democracy.

Mr-Fusion, anyone can rattle off whats on the tip of they're tongue.
The thing with the forums is, everyone here has the luxury of time to make a well-thought out personal response.

I'd appreciate it if you slowed yourself down and published something more worthwhile to the forums then just hot steam.

GFG to the greatest military force in the world. Can't defeat some ragtag arabs. It is an absolute joke of epic proportions.

While I respect your viewpoints, I find this stingily extreme. To be perfectly honest, I to am fed up with our governments military response against Arab terrorism.
And yet, these are the things we can only do until we find a more effective means to combat the insurgents.

It's a hard battle, and nobody said it was'nt going to be difficult.

In english they talk peace?

With or without provacation, extremist radicals have been known to publish videos and audio recordings speaking against not only America, but Mexico, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Poland etc.

visit www.pmw.org.il for more on this topic.

If you're American and you dont know this, unplug your computer and go stick your head in a book or two.

It really will help.

I think everyone needs a break every now and again.

Becuase Isreal are killing Palestinians on a daily basis.

So, what your saying is Israel is killing Palestinian civilians on a daily basis?

Israel bothered not to retalliate militarily against the Hamas led government when a suicide bomber detonated and killed himself in an Israeli city.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/04/17/telaviv.blast/index.html

Would this be apart of your statement also?

it is justified, not rediculous

So people hating us ... reasons or not, is justified?

Am I receiving this right?

 

[VirusType2]

GFG to the greatest military force in the world. Can't defeat some ragtag arabs. It is an absolute joke of epic proportions.

/sarcasm This might have something to do with it:

In the chaos after the war, massive looting of the infrastructure and, most catastrophically, munitions occurred. According to the Pentagon, 250,000 tons (of 650,000 tons total) of ordnance were looted, providing an endless source of ammunition for the insurgents. These looted supplies for the insurgents were further strengthened by the hundreds of weapons caches already created by the conventional Iraqi army and Republican Guard.

250 tons of ordnance was looted by the insurgents. 250 tons of bullets and grenades and shit!

Possibly one of the biggest blunders in military history. DOH!

Source: wikipedia

 

[DeusExMachina]

Its a myth that the USA was ever isolationist.
The history of America is consistantly littered with foreign interventions and invasions.
If you're American and you dont know this, unplug your computer and go stick your head in a book or two.

It really will help.

Washington wanted us to be isolationist. We were isolationist for quite awhile. Then World War I came around. What other foreign interventions are you speaking of that happened before that? Spanish-American war?

 

[French Ninja]

you prefer the latter over the former

Thats quite an assumption there Stern. Why don't you come out and call me an imperialist warmonger?

 

[CptStern]

Thats quite an assumption there Stern. Why don't you come out and call me an imperialist warmonger?

yes, why not take everything at face value? because everyone knows individuals are perfectly capable of invading whole countries and subjegating it's entire populace ..wow that's one tough hombre

you = US

..but I thought that was obvious

 

[SAJ]

Washington wanted us to be isolationist. We were isolationist for quite awhile. Then World War I came around. What other foreign interventions are you speaking of that happened before that? Spanish-American war?

Ok, you asked for it ...

The text that you have entered is too long (53456 characters). Please shorten it to 16000 characters long.

This is what I got when I tried to post the list of American military adventures 1798-1993.
Its so damn long that EVEN THE INTERNET couldnt believe its eyes.
Here's the opening paragraph ;

INSTANCES OF USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES


ABROAD, 1798-1993 (Note 1)


The following list indicates approximately 234 times that the United States has utilized military forces abroad in situations of conflict or potential conflict to protect U.S. citizens or promote U.S. interests. The list does not include covert actions or numerous instances in which U.S. forces have been stationed abroad since World War II in occupation forces or for participation in mutual security organizations, base agreements, or routine military assistance or training operations. Because of differing judgments over the actions to be included, other lists may include more or fewer instances.

And here's the link http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/foabroad.htm


All of which jas exactly zero to do with the Egyptians. The US never invaded nor occupied Egypt, that would be the English.....oh yes and the Israelis.
In fact I would dare say that some of the immoderate use of language towards Israel from Egyptian popular culture would have quite alot to do with the fact that parts of Egypt were invaded, occupied and even settled by Israel.

Just a thought.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Just about all of those instances were in defense of something. I don't really think that counts. We weren't getting involved in their affairs, we were protecting US citizens or US interests.

 

[SAJ]

Just about all of those instances were in defense of something. I don't really think that counts. We weren't getting involved in their affairs, we were protecting US citizens or US interests.

Heh, pretty much every government claims that its military actions are " in defence" of something or other.
And protecting "US interests" (or any nation tbh) is transparent code that covers anything beneficial to one nation and detrimental to another.
Buy I digress, Im not trying to infer right or wrong from the actions listed, just popping the bubble on "isolationist" golden-era USA history-that-never-existed.

 

[Raziaar]

You don't wanna see how many times spain, england, france, or any other country has been involved in aggressive war. It all dwarfs the united states in comparison.

 

[SAJ]

You don't wanna see how many times spain, england, france, or any other country has been involved in aggressive war. It all dwarfs the united states in comparison.

True, true, but then again you guys really are making up for lost time since WW2.

 

[15357]

The only time one feels proud of its country at times of war are if it successfully defends itself.
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Not true.

For example, the achievements that the army has done (like winning a great big battle in the enemy's capital) can make people proud.

And also, I'd be proud of my country no matter what (unless it turned communist, of course), even if it bombed Japan/Austrailia/whatever and killed 2 million people.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

So communism is worse than 2 million intentional civilian deaths?

What exactly about communism is so awful that it becomes a literal fate worse than death to you?

Sure, it's an economic pipe dream, but Cuba's continued existence isn't exactly going to rival a genocide in terms of severity anytime soon.

Invoking good ol' Godwin's Law (although in a way that I see as relevant, given the context): Hitler rose to power demonizing marxism almost as much as the jews. As a result, he ended up, well, attacking "Japan/Austrailia/whatever" and killing 2 million people just for starters.

 

[DeusExMachina]

Heh, pretty much every government claims that its military actions are " in defence" of something or other.
And protecting "US interests" (or any nation tbh) is transparent code that covers anything beneficial to one nation and detrimental to another.
Buy I digress, Im not trying to infer right or wrong from the actions listed, just popping the bubble on "isolationist" golden-era USA history-that-never-existed.

Did you even read the transactions? Nowhere does it say they got directly involved. Get off your high horse :|

 

[SAJ]

Did you even read the transactions? Nowhere does it say they got directly involved. Get off your high horse

Look, I dont know whats got your knickers in a twist Im just forwarding evidence that the USA never had an isolationist history.
Lets face it, 234 foreign military engagements, now thats hardly Switzerland is it ?

But seriously, if you have an actual arguement as to why the USA should be regarded as isolationist and uninvolved in international affairs (in some period of history) lets have it.
Im all ears.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I'm asking you where it says the US got directly involved. As in directly. Helping its own citizens/interests doesn't seem to me like getting involved with other people's business.

The majority of the instances listed were brief Marine or Navy actions prior to World War II to protect U.S. citizens or promote U.S. interests.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the article you showed me doesn't show me direct involvement in most cases. There's obviously a few that do, but its a pretty small minority.

Covert actions...are not included here

I unfortunately do not know about the government's covert actions during the 1700s and 1800s.

 

[CptStern]

recent history:

1980 El Salvador, CIA trained death squads kill hundreds of civilians ..most notably during the El Mazote massacre

1981 US arms Contras against leftist government, thousands killed

1983 Honduras, CIA teaches torture using official cia torture manual: Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual. Battaliion 360 the most notorious of cia trained death squads murder hundreds


that's just in 3 short years

 

[DeusExMachina]

Yes I know about that, I'm talking pre-WWI.

 

[CptStern]

oh .....you were? now I'm lost

 

[DeusExMachina]

Maybe SAJ thought I was talking about something as well?

 

[SAJ]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the article you showed me doesn't show me direct involvement in most cases. There's obviously a few that do, but its a pretty small minority.

The article itself is not proof of anything -other than what it lists- nor was it intended to be. All it was meant to be was a challenge to the lazy assumption that there is some mythical "isolationist" period in America's history, some ideological bolt-hole that can be retreated into now that the outside world starts to look a bit scary.
Like most nostalgia influenced viewpoints, it never existed in reality and assuming that a nation can turn to some fictional yesterday as a way forward is -quite frankly- barking mad. *


* (not to be taken personally)

 

[DeusExMachina]

...And it lists brief times when the Marines and Navy protected US interests and citizens. America did not get directly involved with anyone until the 1900s.

 

[SAJ]

...And it lists brief times when the Marines and Navy protected US interests and citizens. America did not get directly involved with anyone until the 1900s.

As I have said before, protecting the interests of nation x is a term that covers a multitude of sins.
Whichever way you cut it, there is a lot of military projection of power in America's history, something that doesnt sit easy with the notion of isolationism.