Good job Bush.

Neutrino said:
How do you know that? Would you believe me if I said I was guided by the holy spirit?
Click to expand...


Because it's one of the Dogmas of the Catholic Church. As for your second question, probably not considering that you support gay marriage/sex. But other than that, who knows, you might be. You would probably have to be examined and observed by a bishop or cardinal, maybe the pope himself.
 
Neutrino said:
Just curious, do you consider religion to be less arrogant than atheism?
Click to expand...

Just as arrogant. I tend to poke my stick at atheists who proclaim other religions to be arrogant as if they've been given some omniscient knowledge about life though. It's like a pet peeve of mine because being an atheist has all the sudden become an 'in thing' for some social groups and areas and I think it's just as silly. I don't like haughty atheists, is what I'm saying. I'm also not saying religious people can't be haugty and arrogant, I just don't.... 'get' the appeal of atheism. I think agnosticism is a much better choice. But hey, like I always, whatever milks your cow.
 
Death.Trap said:
Also I wan't to thank you guys for not flaming me about my beliefs, tiz ggz
:cheers:
Click to expand...

No worries. :cheers:

But don't you think that gays are being "flamed" at the moment, because of their sexual preferences?
And if the pope said that homosexuals should be able to get married - which I'll be honest I can see happening one day soon, would you accept it?
 
While an atheist can easily say, "You have no proof that God exists", I could just as easily say, "You have no proof that God doesn't exist".

God is a very elusive word in terms of specific definitions. It can be so many things, beliefs, ideas, etc.

That's basically what I was trying to say, Neutrino. Atheism is some what of a religion itself and many atheists doesn't even realize it.
 
burner69 said:
No worries. :cheers:

But don't you think that gays are being "flamed" at the moment, because of their sexual preferences?
And if the pope said that homosexuals should be able to get married - which I'll be honest I can see happening one day soon, would you accept it?
Click to expand...


I would have no choice. I havn't seen anyone actually attack gays yet, but I havn't read the whole thread. Gays are people too, as a matter of fact I have two gay cousins. Both are decent guys. Only one actually goes for guys though. The other one used to, but he doesn't anymore because he believes it's wrong.
 
MadHatter said:
While an atheist can easily say, "You have no proof that God exists", I could just as easily say, "You have no proof that God doesn't exist".

God is a very elusive word in terms of specific definitions. It can be so many things, beliefs, ideas, etc.

That's basically what I was trying to say, Neutrino. Atheism is some what of a religion itself and many atheists doesn't even realize it.
Click to expand...



Damn, I need to copy down some stuff out of a book I have for you to read...just a sec.
 
What i don't understand is this. At the very core of Jesus' teachings is to treat others like you want to be treated. Would Jesus have ostricized a gay person? He treated prostitutes, blind men and cripples like everyone else....yet a gay person he would discard and spread word that gays are to be kept out of society.

It's this hypocrisy and "pick and choose" attitude of religious people that confuses and annoys me.
 
Death.Trap said:
Because it's one of the Dogmas of the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...

Would you mind explaining that a bit to me? Sorry, I know I should be more familiar with it, but I can't keep up with the details of all the different religions. There's too many to learn about.

Death.Trap said:
As for your second question, probably not considering that you support gay marriage/sex. But other than that, who knows, you might be. You would probably have to be examined and observed by a bishop or cardinal, maybe the pope himself.
Click to expand...

Ok, so if I was observed/examined by a bishop, cardinal, or the Pope and they agreed that I was guided by the Holy Spirit then it would be true?

So who observed/examined them, etc, etc?

Heck, I even have the same name as the Pope. :p
 
MadHatter said:
Just as arrogant. I tend to poke my stick at atheists who proclaim other religions to be arrogant as if they've been given some omniscient knowledge about life though. It's like a pet peeve of mine because being an atheist has all the sudden become an 'in thing' for some social groups and areas and I think it's just as silly. I don't like haughty atheists, is what I'm saying. I'm also not saying religious people can't be haugty and arrogant, I just don't.... 'get' the appeal of atheism. I think agnosticism is a much better choice. But hey, like I always, whatever milks your cow.
Click to expand...

I don't think any religion is arrogant. I just don't believe in it. Religion does a lot of good, and, unfortuatly, quite a bit of bad on the Earth.
I'm an athiest because of my beliefs. I never believed in the idea that when I die I'll go to heaven, or hell. Don't mean to piss any one off, but I find the notion a little mythological, and it easy for those in power to get people to do what they want if they believe in that.
I was Christened, my parents married in a church, but since I can remember I've never believed in God. I'd feel like I was fooling myself and others if I said I did.
But I like to think I'm a nice guy - I carry with me the same set of morals that all major religions are founded on. :D
 
burner69 said:
I don't think any religion is arrogant. I just don't believe in it. Religion does a lot of good, and, unfortuatly, quite a bit of bad on the Earth.
I'm an athiest because of my beliefs. I never believed in the idea that when I die I'll go to heaven, or hell. Don't mean to piss any one off, but I find the notion a little mythological, and it easy for those in power to get people to do what they want if they believe in that.
I was Christened, my parents married in a church, but since I can remember I've never believed in God. I'd feel like I was fooling myself and others if I said I did.
But I like to think I'm a nice guy - I carry with me the same set of morals that all major religions are founded on. :D
Click to expand...


Wait, wait, I never meant I detest atheists or poke all of them. It's the ones that act arrogant about it.
 
MadHatter said:
While an atheist can easily say, "You have no proof that God exists", I could just as easily say, "You have no proof that God doesn't exist".

God is a very elusive word in terms of specific definitions. It can be so many things, beliefs, ideas, etc.

That's basically what I was trying to say, Neutrino. Atheism is some what of a religion itself and many atheists doesn't even realize it.
Click to expand...

Technically, I can understand what you are saying. However, that argument can be used for numerous things. I can easily say, "you have no proof that a pink elephant behind the sun exists," and you can say "you have no proof that it doesn't exist."

So do you think that the belief that their is no pink elephant behind the sun is arrogant as well?
 
Neutrino said:
Would you mind explaining that a bit to me? Sorry, I know I should be more familiar with it, but I can't keep up with the details of all the different religions. There's too many to learn about.
Click to expand...

I'm gonna edit this in a couple of minutes once I find something for ya...

EDIT- This looks like a good explanation, if you need me to look up anything else just say so =)

http://www.secondexodus.com/html/catholicdefinitions/dogma.htm


Ok, so if I was observed/examined by a bishop, cardinal, or the Pope and they agreed that I was guided by the Holy Spirit then it would be true?

So who observed/examined them, etc, etc?

Heck, I even have the same name as the Pope. :p
Click to expand...

If the Pope announced to the world that you were guided by the Holy Spirit I would believe it. Neutrino for pope!
:D
 
MadHatter said:
.... Why?
Click to expand...



I think I quoted the wrong guy.




EDIT-Neutrino if you wan't to learn the basic principles behind Christianity in general I suggest a book called Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. He was originally atheist, converted to Christianity.

He has a really good way of speaking and getting his point across. Does it in a really down to earth way. You should look into it =)
 
Neutrino said:
Technically, I can understand what you are saying. However, that argument can be used for numerous things. I can easily say, "you have no proof that a pink elephant behind the sun exists," and you can say "you have no proof that it doesn't exist."

So do you think that the belief that their is no pink elephant behind the sun is arrogant as well?
Click to expand...

Yup, because we simply don't know, now do we? Same thing applies to religion and God. We simply don't know and to act or assume as if we know what or who God is or whether he even exists is arrogant to me. God could be a pink elephant behind the sun for all we know. Catch my drift? God could be all around us (in a non-spiritually way).
 
MadHatter said:
Wait, wait, I never meant I detest atheists or poke all of them. It's the ones that act arrogant about it.
Click to expand...
It's ok, I didn't take it that way at all. Just wanted to explain myself.

And er... what the bleeding heck is a agnosticist?

I call myself an athiest because that's the first word I heard to describe how I felt. (I used to tell my friends at primary school that my religion was "non-religious")

btw, I'm not one of them biatches who says "Prove God exists". If you believe he does, then he does for you - that's what matters :D

By the way, Deathtrap, don't you think that if the pope did say gays should be married - and therefore you had to change your opinion, wouldn't you feel somewhat manipulated?

And by the way, I utterly disagree, but have high regard for your cousin who stopped being gay because of his religion. It makes no sense to me, but did to him so he did it - that kind of person I question, but respect.

EDIT: BTW, part of why I'm not religious stems from the pink elephant debate. Just because we can't prove or explain something, doesn't mean it's likely at all to exist.
Religion is famously used to explain the inexplainable, I just find greater comfort in logic. (i mean that in no way offensively - these are my beliefs, which I know many people disagree with)
 
By the way, if you want to have a better understanding of my opinions, beliefs and such regarding this, I'm what some would call a 'Paulician Heretic'.
 
burner69 said:
And er... what the bleeding heck is a agnosticist?
Click to expand...

An agnostic is someone who is undetermined whether there is a God or not. They neither claim there is no a God and nor do they claim there is a God. I'm not an agnostic either... 'Cause there obviously is a God. Agnosticism tends to be the 'lazy mans' stance on religion. People who usually don't care about religion or religious ideologies are likely to be agnostic. They prefer not to get involved with religious discussions either.
 
MadHatter said:
An agnostic is someone who is undetermined whether there is a God or not. They don't claim there is a God and nor do they claim there is a God. I'm not an agnostic either... 'Cause there obviously is a God.
Click to expand...

Think I'm still an athiest then.
Though I do believe that if there were a God, he'd be a very cool guy indeed.
 
Death.Trap said:
But they make good points.
Click to expand...

So? Everybody once thought the Earth was flat and it was deemed as a good point. I admit that kind of schtuff is an interesting read, but don't consume it like it's the 100% truth. Some of it could actually be true, but some of it might not be.
 
MadHatter said:
So? Everybody once thought the Earth was flat and it was deemed as a good point. I admit that kind of schtuff is an interesting read, but don't consume it like it's the 100% truth. Some of it could actually be true, but some of it might not be.
Click to expand...


Ya I know. I'm not saying that they've got everything down pat, I just think that they make good points, and alot of it fits with my personal religious beliefs.
 
Have you ever heard of string theory?
I saw a program on it a while ago, so can't be exact here, but it basically states that there are an unlimited number of universe's, all existing in the same space, yet existing in different "frequencies" Some would be similar to our own, others would be vastly different, and unrecognisable. The Big Bang, they believe, is caused when two frequencies 'collide' creating what you might compare to a major or minor note, but in frequencies - you see? (knew this would be confusing). It's all new science, but I remember they found evidence under the microscope that would fit in.

It's all theoretical of course, but COULD exist.

Then if that does, what else? Are all the billions of 'string' univers's just the make up of a tiny atom in some grander scheme of things?
 
lol I was just noticing the title of this thread. How the F did it get to the existence of God? lol
 
Thinking that myself.
Came from "why gays shouldn't marry"
To answer this debate we need to prove or disprove the existence of God.
Well if we do it guys, we'll be famous either way!
 
MadHatter said:
lol I was just noticing the title of this thread. How the F did it get to the existence of God? lol
Click to expand...

This usually happens, just wait abortion is next. ;)
 
You've just entered my favorite subject =)



Yeah I've heard of it. Good stuff =)


Apparently one of the current big bang theories states that all matter was initially compressed into a singularity. Well, at the center of black holes theres supposed to be a singularity. Perhaps a black hole is just the outside view of another universe? I know that a star doesn't compose of enough matter to become an entire universe, but since the laws of physics as we know them do not exist inside black holes, who knows whats possible.

That's something that occurred to me a couple of months ago, true? possibly, but probably not.
 
Neutrino said:
Ok, so if I was observed/examined by a bishop, cardinal, or the Pope .....
Click to expand...


must ..resist ...obvious ...joke!!!
 
burner69 said:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48211

Thought this might be enjoyable

By the way guys. If anyone says religion is a bad thing show them this thread and prove them wrong.

I really enjoyed discussing things with you guys, here's to you :cheers:
Click to expand...

I think religion is one of mankind's greatest and worst inventions. Yes, it is the cause of wars and unreasonable trife, death, etc. It's also a beautiful thing though. People needs something to believe in. People need something to bring comfort and ease the pain and fear of death. Sometimes religion can bring out the worst in someone and sometimes it can bring out the best.
 
burner69 said:
I really enjoyed discussing things with you guys, here's to you :cheers:
Click to expand...

Ya man, same here. Good stuff :cheers:


EDIT-Ladies and gentlemen the proff of God's existence is all in my post count. <---lvled up ;)
 
I just find it funy when people say "religion is so and so ..", the world "religion" does not refer to a specific thing.
 
Death.Trap said:
EDIT-Neutrino if you wan't to learn the basic principles behind Christianity in general I suggest a book called Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. He was originally atheist, converted to Christianity.
Click to expand...

I think I know quite a bit about Christianity. My knowledge is just lacking specifically in the area of Catholicism. But thanks, I might check it out.

MadHatter said:
Yup, because we simply don't know, now do we? Same thing applies to religion and God. We simply don't know and to act or assume as if we know what or who God is or whether he even exists is arrogant to me. God could be a pink elephant behind the sun for all we know. Catch my drift? God could be all around us (in a non-spiritually way).
Click to expand...

Heh, was really just checking if you were consistent. Ya, I understand what you mean. Though I think a bit of common sense can be used for things that have no evidence yet cannot be proven wrong since they are practically infinite in number. It seems illogical to place more importance on one of these possibilites than on another. This is why I only take things seriously that actually have evidence to support them. Otherwise, I'd go crazy believing every thing I heard.

Death.Trap said:
Neutrino where are you hiding? I was having a good time :)
Click to expand...

Sorry, I had to run out for a while.
 
Neutrino said:
Heh, was really just checking if you were consistent. Ya, I understand what you mean. Though I think a bit of common sense can be used for things that have no evidence yet cannot be proven wrong since they are practically infinite in number. It seems illogical to place more importance on one of these possibilites than on another. This is why I only take things seriously that actually have evidence to support them. Otherwise, I'd go crazy believing every thing I heard.
Click to expand...

I concur. If there is no evidence for either side of an argument to agree on, then it's just speculation, theory or undeterminable. Yeah, I can have no proof that grass isn't green and you have proof that grass is green, but if there is clear, factual evidence to prove it, then it's a futile argument because grass is obviously green and both sides must agree. With God and his / it's existence, the 100% factual evidence just isn't there or we simply don't know it yet; therefore both sides are neither right nor wrong and to claim as if you utterly know the answers is arrogant (not saying you are). I will admit that I believe there is a God, but not in the way that most people, be it religious people, believe in. I'll explain my beliefs indepth if need be. I dunno, I just started drinking again for the night so hopefully I'd make some sense if I were to explain lol.
 
The existence of a God can not necessarily be disproven. True.

A clearly defined God CAN be disproven. True.

I don't believe in the Christian God because I feel that he is far too contradictory to logically exist.

And even if he did exist, I would hate him.
 
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