Gray Fox is getting a new PC

[Gray Fox]

Index
1. Introduction
2. PC parts
3. Some thoughts
4. Reasoning behind my choices

1.Introduction
Remember folks the better the PC, the more time I will spend playing games, working in Zbursh and the less I will spend it here. So this is in your best interest to. Any help is appreciated, even just a single line reply telling me I should get a 8800 GTS 640MB instead of the 2900xt. Off course the more help you offer the better.
Now, my current PC is already 4 years old, and is in dire need of replacement.

This is the store I want to buy it from, it?s in Dutch, but you will be easily able to find your way even if you do not speak Dutch.
http://azerty.nl/producten/zoek/49/pc-componenten.html
(Prices fluctuate daily)


2. PC parts I want to order.

Antec Nine Hundred
100,06
Thermaltake Toughpower, 750 Watt, Retail
122,01
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
266,-
Western Digital Caviar RE, 320 GB, 7200 RPM, 16 MB, SATA II
81,09
GigaByte GA-P35-DS4,Retail
154,56
Sapphire Radeon HD2900XT,GDDR3, PCI Express x16, 512MB
346,88
OCZ OCZ2P8002GK, 2048 MB, DDR2, PC6400, 800 MHz, 2 x
97,46
Zalman CNPS9700 NT
59,57
NEC AD-7173S, Serial ATA150, black, OEM
28,10
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit,BOX, Engels
87,04

Final cost without assembly,
1343,74

Assembly
50,-

Total cost with assembly
1393,74

I already have the Monitor, keyboard, mouse, soundcard, speakers, headset.


3.Some thoughts

I have the most trouble choosing the RAM, Motherboard and PSU.
Assume I will want to put 1 or 2 extra harddisks in the future. Along with the current one.

Also though I?m not planning to overclock the system any time soon, assume I will want to do it in the future. Now I do not know how good the quads overclock so I?m just going to trow out a number, lets say I want to overclock them to 3Ghz. I?m aware that it?s highly dependent on particular cores I get. But just assume I got lucky and assume the rest of the system works perfectly too.
Basically I want to get an as powerful system as I can possible get for that amount of money, I?m flexible but also already over budget so don?t push it.


4.Explanation for my choices

Antec Nine Hundred:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/51/11889/nine-hundred.html
Everyone says it kicks ass, good space, good airflow, good price.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/472/14259/core-2-quad.html
Seems to have good performance for the price. I?m going to be using applications like 3dsmax, hammer zbrush and off course games. And I see them all benefiting from a quad core. Plus it?s nice for multitasking, like having a few firefox pages full of tutorials open while working in hammer, plus listening to music =)

Western Digital Caviar RE, 320 GB, 7200 RPM, 16 MB, SATA II:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/125/10349/caviar-re.html
As far as I know WE is a great brand, these drives have gotten good reviews. And the RE is supposed to be a little more reliable then the SE. But seeing the price is only a little higher then SE, and seeing as everyone wants dammed good reliability, this could just be the same drive with a different name to fool idiots. So what do you folks say?
Also here is a review of a samsung drive on anandtech, there are also benchmarks of other drives in that review:
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3031&p=1
And looking at that the WD seems way to expensive, I mean I can get a 500 gb hitachi, which scores pretty good in that review for 94,-. And once again, the reliablity of a HD is paramaunt to everybody, certainly in this modern age when we keep so many personal stuf on our HD, so is the WD really that much more realible? It's 5 year warranty suggest it, but i'm not sure.

Sapphire Radeon HD2900XT,GDDR3, PCI Express x16, 512MB:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/165/33162/radeon-hd2900xt.html
The cheapest 2900xt. Since the newest driver updates seems to be a really good buy, even better then the 8800GTS 640MB.

OCZ OCZ2P8002GK, 2048 MB, DDR2, PC6400, 800 MHz, 2 x :
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/174/8137/ocz2p8002gk.html
RAM, again something I know jack shit about. There are so many ram stick to chose with the same specs. I really do not know the difference between the most of them. And as far as I know I do not need a stick with more then 800mhz, pc6400. I was originally thinking of getting either the

Team TXDD2048M1066HC5DC, 2048 MB, DDR2, PC8500, 1066 MHz, 2 x
161,79,-
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/174/31445/txdd2048m1066hc5dc.html
or
Team TXDD2048M1066HC4DC, 2048 MB, DDR2, PC8500, 1066 MHz, 2 x 189,48,-
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/174/27413/txdd2048m1066hc4dc.html

But that seems a waist of money. If anyone knows better, and can find a relatively better memory then my 100,- OCZ on that site, please tell me, but don't let it be to expensive.


GigaByte GA-P35-DS4,Retail:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/89/31460/ga-p35-ds4.html
Looks like a mighty fancy motherboard for it?s price, and seems to me the best board for under 200,-.
And it has those cool looking heatpipe thingies.
That said, people tell me it?s not worth it over the DS3. Plus the heatpipes might interfere with the CPU cooler, does anyone know more about that?
Also it only has 4 USB of the 12 on the back. Which leaves 8 inside, which just blows.
And finally 2 PCI express1x slots will be useless when I place my 3d card in it.

Other motherboards which seem kick ass are
GigaByte GA-P35-DS3
There are 3 different ones
Standard 100,- http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/89/35649/ga-p35-ds3.html
P version 136,- http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/89/31459/ga-p35-ds3p.html
R version 126,- http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/89/31458/ga-p35-ds3r.html

Asus PK5
Asus P5K,Retail 122,-
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/89/31858/p5k.html

Asus P5K-E/WIFI-AP,Retail
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/89/33056/p5k-e-wifi-ap.html

Any other suggestions are welcome, I?m really at a loss here.


Zalman CNPS9700 NT:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/81/14846/cnps9700-nt.html
I want a tuniq tower 120, because it?s cheaper and better from almost every review I read. But the store does not have it. So the choice is between this .
The Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme (http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/81/33197/ultra-120-extreme.html) with an Scythe S-FLEX fan (http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/82/10380/s-flex.html)
and
The Scythe Infinity (http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/81/10520/infinity.html)
With maybe an additional Scythe S-FLEX fan (http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/82/10380/s-flex.html)
The reason I chose the S-flex is because anandtech used it in their reviews, and I know jack shit about fans.

The Thermalright seems to be the best, but it?s expensive 70,- with fan.
And in an Anandtech review I read it has a big problem:

The 775 adapter will not fit between the heatpipes.
You have to bend and weaken the metal 775 adapter to pass it through the pipes, and then straighten it out for mounting. If you are careful this will work.

http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2943&p=6

Plus I worry if it wil fit on a DS4 with al it?s cooling pipes. Although this need not be a problem if someone recommends a better motherboard. I fear the same for the Infinity, and the Zalman, with the zalmans design the heatspreaders are really close to the motherboard surface, so they may interfere with the cooling pipes.

The scythe seems a good cooler, especially with 2 fans.

I really do not know which to chose. None is to expensive imo certainly not seeing as stability of my whole system is so dependent on the temperature, but I just do not know if the thermalright is worth it, or if it?s just for overclock freaks.
I chose the Zalman since it seems in between the scythe and thermalright in cooling and price. But if the scythe, with a single or dual fan is enough, even with a fancy overclock then who am I to complain.
Suggestion are welcome as always, even for a different type of fan then the S-flex.


Thermaltake Toughpower, 750 Watt, Retail:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/8775/toughpower.html
I want a modular PSU, so unless it?s a really good deal don?t suggest any other kind. As far as this one go?s, it?s modular, has a shitload of power, and seems to have received good reviews:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=17&page_num=3
But do I really need 750 watts.
The price seems to low for a PSU of such high quality, are they maybe pulling the old switch and bait like LCD companies do?
In any case I?m also interested in the
Lower watt thermaltake thoughpowers, although I'm not sure they are modular
700 watt http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/8773/toughpower.html
650 watt http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/8772/toughpower.html
600 watt http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/8771/toughpower.html

Corsair CMPSU-620HXEU,
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/10517/cmpsu-620hxeu.html
http://www.corsairmemory.com/products/hx.aspx
Also on corsairs site says:
Double forward switching circuitry design offers high efficiency, up to 80% under wide load range.
Now don't the rest of these get more then 80% efficiency, or is this 80% so special because it is under wide load, while others only get 80% under certain loads.

EnerMax Liberty, 620 Watt, Retail
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/4744/liberty.html

Seasonic M12-600, 600 Watt, Retail
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/10560/m12-600.html
http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=13&page_num=3
From this review the 700wat version is just a tad better then the thermaltake
But it costs 200,- vs the thermaltake 122,- and this 600 watt version costs 136,-

Tagan TG700-U35, 700 Watt, Retail
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/10701/tg700-u35.html
or the 600 watt version
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/52/10700/tg600-u35.html

So whats up, why the enormous price differences, what would be your choice be? Are there any completely other PSU that I should consider.

Assemby: I want it in part because I have never put a cpu on a motherboard and a heatsink on the cpu andmotherboard, never worked with thermal grease and all that. But mainly because when they assemble it they test it for you right there, so I know for sure I won?t receive a dud.
Do you folks think it?s worth 50,- for that?

Thnx in advance for any help.

 

[VirusType2]

For the RE2 WD claims '1.2 million hours MTBF 100% duty cycle'; 5 year warranty.

I'm not sure what MTBF means, but it sounds to me you could leave it running full duty for 1.2 million hours. That sounds hard to believe, but sounds reliable none the less.


I've always used WD, and never had any problems.

I've got two 80's, a 160, a 500, and a 750


You can always get a bigger one later. Prices are trickling down over time for larger drives.

I just got the 500 for $110, and the 750 for $200

 

[Kyorisu]

Wait for the Intel price cuts, seriously. Theres some random surge of people on all the hardware boards I visit buying rigs 2 weeks before CPUS drop massively in price.

 

[Gray Fox]

Oh I know about the price cuts. Thats why I'm asking now so on july 22 I'm ready to buy my new pc.
Still thank you very much.

 

[VirusType2]

I'd definitely go with something in the 800+ watt range for power supply. "Too much is just enough."

 

[Gray Fox]

Are you sure about that, people were recommending a 520 watt power supply to folks with near identical systems to mine except with a dual core. And 800 watt is really expensive.

I also just read this on Newegg

Pros: quad core, better for multitasking

Cons: horrible performance gain over the E6600, bottle neck of cpu bandwidth, bad planning, not worth the $

Other Thoughts: Intel caused a bottle neck with this when they doubled the cores and didnt bump up the bus speed. E6600 gives 533Mhz per core, the Q6600 only gives 266Mhz or 333Mhz depending on if you are runnign a 1066Mhz FSB or 1333Mhz FSB. The gain from this is definately not worth the cost even after the price drop will happen. Definately dont get this. Wait for the true quads or get the E6600.

Should I follow this guys advice.

 

[VirusType2]

I'm just saying what I would get. No way I'd get anything less than like 700-800 these days, but I am OCD. I would just get 1000 watt one tbh, but it's just going to wear out before I ever need that much power probably.


Yeah, I've seen benchmarks for the CPU's. The quad is better at some things, but generally, I think the dual 6800 extreme* beat the shit out of everything. But it's expensive. The regular core duo 6800 is a great processor. Not sure if i'll get the quad or the dual. I couldn't decide at the time, because I use my computer for a lot of shit.

(I hope that is the right model number I'm talking about)

 

[-Psy-]

Just go for dual-core!

 

[Gray Fox]

Well why, almost every one has been saying wait for the 22juli quad core price cuts for months now.
So I assumed what that dude on newegg said is BS, I mean alan wake, hl2 ep2, crysis will all use the quads won't they.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

hmm interesting you use commas in wierd spots when posting large numbers instead of every three numbers starting from the right (8,000 vs 80,00 which makes me think you left out a zero).
/troll

quad core ftw!!

 

[Gray Fox]

The comma's are there because the numbers are in euro,s.
So 154,67 mean 154 euro's and 67 cents.

Edit sunday 15th july: I didn't want to bump this with the news, but I found out the store does sell the tuniq, under it's other brand name, sunbeam. It sells for 36,-
I also found out they can just assemble your cpu, cooler and ram for 15 instead of 50,- for the whole assembly.
As always more advice is always welcome, so keep it coming

 

[ricera10]

Are you going to be working a zbrush a lot, even more so than games? Then I'd recommend a Quadro. But if it's just a hobby thing, then continue on.

 

[Gray Fox]

Okay so I took a picture of what I compiled together.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/5959/mijnpcxv7.jpg

I'm still very undecided about the ram.
As you can see I took the 500gb WD RE for 128,-.
Now I could switch that for a 320GB for 80,- like I was planning.
Which saves me 50,-
I could use that to buy better ram, like for example
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/174/31444/txdd2048m800hc3dc.html
or
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/174/31445/txdd2048m1066hc5dc.html

Good idea or not.

Are you going to be working a zbrush a lot, even more so than games? Then I'd recommend a Quadro. But if it's just a hobby thing, then continue on.

Well I'm going to do a study in gamedesign and development. So it's kind of semi pro. but the quadro is way to expensive and can't play games that good. So the 2900xt seems like the best choice. But as alwasy, thnk you very much for your reply. Any more help is always welcome.

 

[Exploder]

Are you sure about that, people were recommending a 520 watt power supply to folks with near identical systems to mine except with a dual core. And 800 watt is really expensive.

I also just read this on Newegg


Should I follow this guys advice.

It sounds like he knows what he's talking about. You could always wait for the new Quad processors from AMD and Intel like the Barcelona and Penryn. Also keep in mind that Nvidia will most likely release the new 8900 series around Christmas. That's when I'm gonna upgrade

 

[Barney Fife]

Or you can make it easier for yourself and use the Extreme PSU Calculator: Here.
This site will definitely let you know how much wattage is enough. Make sure that you fill all option tables.
If it says you need 500w, get 600w; its always safe to run lower than peak, it keeps the PSU work less stressful.

Good Luck.

 

[Gray Fox]

Super extra thanks for that.
I filled in all the worste case scenarios I could find.
overclocked to 3ghz, vcore 1.5v, 3 hdd, 3 usb devices, 4 high performance fans, 30% capacitator aging, 100% load, I came to about 675 or 700 watt, so I take that 750 is more then enough.
Only thing is, it only has 18amps on the 12v rails, is that enough?

 

[Kyorisu]

I'd definitely go with something in the 800+ watt range for power supply. "Too much is just enough."

You crack me up. Quality over quantity people, buy a decent power supply not some Thermalcrap product, kthnx. Even with a supped up SLI/Crossfire machine with a few harddrives for kicks I wouldn't recommend anything higher than say a Corsair 620W.

 

[Gray Fox]

Are you sure it is crap, it got a great review here:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=17&page_num=3

 

[Nabobalis]

Super extra thanks for that.
I filled in all the worste case scenarios I could find.
overclocked to 3ghz, vcore 1.5v, 3 hdd, 3 usb devices, 4 high performance fans, 30% capacitator aging, 100% load, I came to about 675 or 700 watt, so I take that 750 is more then enough.
Only thing is, it only has 18amps on the 12v rails, is that enough?

I did on for mine and it came out at 1000W but I the system can run on a 620W

 

[Gray Fox]

You probably made the same mistake I did.
In the first field called:
System type, you can set if you have a single, double or quad processor. Naturally I assumed I had to chose a quad, but here is what it said underneath.
System Type: Based on physical processor(s) or # of sockets. Multicore CPU counts as a single processor. For example: for Core 2 Duo you should select 'Single Processor' as System Type.

Plus you have to remember the 750 watt thermal take is actually cheaper then any modular A-brand 600 watt. But that is kind of exactly what is bothering me, I'm thinking they may have sent some good PSU's to review sites and then switched over to bad cheap ones.

 

[Asus]

A good PSU list from Jonnyguru.com and the Thermaltake <1000watt units make the list. Although there are a number alternatives above it since it sits at Tier 4.

 

[Gray Fox]

But I see for example that the silverstone Zeus productline is mentioned in tear 1, but if I look at the specifications of the ST65ZF for example I see 75%, now the Thermaltake, seasonic, and corsair all claim to have 80%. Should I assume they are just not being honest?

The seasonics are in the third tier, but only 3 year warranty and more expensive then the Thermaltake. I also found out that small extra fan is there because a lot of psu today are bieng put in the back under, instead of back top. Which seems kick ass.

But the thermaltakes do have a 5 year warranty and are cheaper.

What would you take from that store, here are the PSU's they have, but keep it under 150,-.
http://azerty.nl/producten/zoek/52/voedingen.html


BTW another thing, I read this at anandtech:

The winner for now is the P35 chipset, whether you feed it DDR2 with fast timings or higher speed DDR3. The 1333 bus speed introduced by P35 is also a winner - at least in terms of overclocking. As stated in the review, almost every Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Quad we tried in the P35 ASUS P5K and P5K3 ran at 1333 FSB at the default multiplier and default voltage. The only processors that required any voltage increase were the top line Core 2 Extreme processors. This free 25% overclock, which still allows everything else in the system to run at default values, is exciting. It is so exciting we have to wonder how long Intel will allow this in the marketplace.

source:http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2989&p=8

Does this mean my q6600 will run at 3Ghz, and is this good or bad. It seems good, but what if one of the 4 cores is bad and doesn't want to run at 3ghz, or doesn't it matter in this case because it's different then normal overclocking, and a core that will run at 2.4 on a 1066 motherboard will just run fine on 3 ghz on a 1333 board.

 

[Asus]

But I see for example that the silverstone Zeus productline is mentioned in tear 1, but if I look at the specifications of the ST65ZF for example I see 75%, now the Thermaltake, seasonic, and corsair all claim to have 80%. Should I assume they are just not being honest?

What do you mean? Are you talking about efficiency? No one is lying. A lot of times watts are misrepresented though. Most high end solid PSU, not talking about consumer brands at retail, don't care about efficiency that much. They want absolute clean and stable power. For efficiency the manufacture gives an estimate which never is exact. For example most just say they hit at least 80% efficiency without telling you that it might be 81 or 85%. And in reality it can vary a lot depending on the load and temperature the PSU is at.

 

[Barney Fife]

A PSU that supplies enough watts and will withstand Prime95 or Everest, which will stay cool, is a good PSU in my book.

Corsair will not beat TT, noway, nohow.

 

[Asus]

Corsair doesn't make their units. Seasonic does.
If Corsair had another model but converted a powmax PSU for it then it would be shitty.

 

[Gray Fox]

Sorry for the bump. But I found out the OCZ memory needed 2.1v, that seemed kind of high. So I wanted to a different set of stick.
I tried these G.Skill ones:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/174/34576/f2-6400cl4d-2gbpk.html
But then I found this:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=110819
Anyone know if this problem still exists?
Also how about this memory:
http://azerty.nl/producten/product_detail/174/27412/txdd2048m800hc4dc-d.html