Hardcore!

[Stigmata]

So if I did a cover of a electronica song on a keyboard/drums/guitar/etc, then what is it? It's whatever style I make it... A light clean feel and it's jazz, crank the distortion it's metal, add some delay and some hard reverb, it's art rock..

It's a genre, sorry to tell you.

EDIT: to above, there's always cross overs in genres, but those few don't over rule the many that make the genre.

So are you saying that electronica -> "real instrumentation" cover = a wide possibility of artistic results, but that real instrumentation -> electronica cover = only electronica?

 

[Dog--]

Uhhh... no? I never said that, I said you could use any instrument (computer, guitar, drum, bass, etc) to make songs in any genre.

And yes, if you made an electronica cover, it would be electronica.. That was kind of an odd question.

 

[Stigmata]

It seems like you're still framing electronic instruments as inferior to "real" instruments. I'll re-read the thread.

 

[Vegeta897]

But then again, vegeta, using your same logic and even your second example, I could use the EXACT same argument saying 'you can't call rock a genre', I mean even you said it, I could create any sound using rock instruments

Stop... Rock is not defined by the use of rock instruments. Like I freakin' said. You can make all sorts of different genres besides rock with a guitar bass drums vocals etc. This is why the fundamental definitions of electronica and rock differ. Rock contains styles in addition to instruments used, whereas electronica can have any sort of style so long as it is electronic.

 

[Dog--]

So what is it when you use electronic instruments in a rock song? Alot of (again..) Rush songs, Cygnus for example is probably 75-85% electronic ambient noises, so it is electronica? No, it's rock.

 

[Vegeta897]

Of course it is. It still retains those other elements that make it rock, even it if includes a new instrument. What does that prove?

 

[Dog--]

Ok, so that proves if I use a distorted electric guitar while you got techno in the background, it's automatically rock.

 

[Stigmata]

It's real music, you can do some things on a computer that you physically cannot do, but it seems to lack the 'emotion' (I know that sound cliche and douche-like to say), it's usually all in PERFECT time, the notes are hit perfectly.. Sometimes mistakes and human error make it better.

The last sentence, I agree with.

Without 'apes' beating on a drum kit, your drum machines wouldn't exist.

Without hitting sticks on trees, you wouldn't even have your drum kit. That doesn't inherently make hitting sticks on trees superior or more musical than drums.

And also, most (not all) techno/electronica songs just have a bass/snare throughout the whole song with keyboards and other things above that..

And most (not all) rock songs just have a bass/snare throughout the whole song with keyboards and other things on top. Seriously. Bass on the quarter notes, snare on the second and fourth, hi-hat on the first/third or quarter notes, and power chords/keyboards on top. Rinse, repeat.

I hate to keep bringing up Rush, but listen to most of their songs, the drums change constantly. La Villa Strangiato.

Same goes for the same quality-tier of electronica. Venetian Snares, for example, changes constantly, sometimes even bar-to-bar.

I could pretty much say this to you vice versa the genres.. I could show you some retardedly amazing rock music, you probably haven't heard the best, like I haven't heard the best of techno.

I have heard the "best" of rock (e.g. The Mars Volta, Genesis, Pink Floyd, Soundgarden, Radiohead, Nine Inch Nails, The Beatles, Van Halen). I have also heard the "best" of electronica (e.g. Sigur Ros, Venetian Snares, Amon Tobin, Squarepusher, Chris Clark, Aphex Twin). I can most definitely say that there is absolutely NOT a lack of emotion or "humanity" in electronic music. Just like "regular" music, putting real emotion and passion into your music isn't as simple as hitting a pattern button, or strumming a well-trodden chord progression. It doesn't matter that one type of instrument is prone to accidental notes and off-time hits, or that another is prone to cold perfection. What matters is what you make with them. Did you know, for example, that there are tools to create random fluctuations in note length, timing, velocity, decay, and any other variable in the production of electronica? You can even sequence your own accidental notes yourself, and get them precisely where you want.

And here you're going to say "but the electronic accidentals aren't accidental at all!" But that's beside the point. When you listen to music, you're not analysing spectrograms and trying desperately to detect if that one sharp note was an accident or a purposeful fluorish. You're listening to the effect that sharp note has on the song. Music is meaning, and emotion, and story. What does it matter if the sharp was purposeful or accidental, so long as it has meaning in the song?

So if I did a cover of a electronica song on a keyboard/drums/guitar/etc, then what is it? It's whatever style I make it... A light clean feel and it's jazz, crank the distortion it's metal, add some delay and some hard reverb, it's art rock..

Unfortunately you're wrong. "A light clean feel" does not make jazz. Likewise, cranking the distortion on a song doesn't make it metal, it just makes it distorted. If you ran something by Miles Davis through a distorted amp, it's not metal, it's just loud distorted jazz. What you're talking about is the texture of the sound, and texture has far less to do with genre than composition and arrangement.

"A light clean feel" makes light, clean-sounding music. Swing rhythms, off-time notes, tritones, scales, and a healthy helping of well-placed dissonance help make jazz.

 

[Captain M4d]

You guys are awful. GTFO and start your own thread.

 

[Viperidae]

I came into this thread like this:

But then when I read it I was relieved because you guys are doing a good job. Thus my services as electrofag were not required. Only if Dog gets completely off his leash will I reign in.

Also Absinthe my love thank you for posting again.

 

[Dog--]

Ok Rock>electronica, now I'm leaving.

..


*runs*

 

[Vegeta897]

Ok, so that proves if I use a distorted electric guitar while you got techno in the background, it's automatically rock.

What the hell? No. You're not listening. How many times do I have to say it? Rock isn't just its instruments. If I used a synth instead of lead guitar, an upright bass instead of a bass guitar, an electronic drumkit, I could still make something someone could call rock upon hearing it. There are stylistic elements consisting of those terms I mentioned before which make rock what it is.

 

[PorkPi]

Ska-core
such as:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJnx...7A9958CC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=32

 

[kineaesth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wkcMAvhhBc&fmt=18

Hard is difficult. There is a point where distortion just becomes irritating, where your previously smooth bassline loses all impact and becomes just more fuzz. Can Milanese do it? Can anyone do it? Is the space between heaviness more important than a wall of noise? WHO CAN SAY

Great thread guys it's turned out beautifully

 

[The Monkey]

This shit beats all of these previous videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noeTCf8PLuc

The sound there is also "electric" so to speak (albeit created with guitars and amplifiers), but it blends in with the rock/pop sound, which I believe is the best use of the technique. Just my $0.02.

 

[Sledgehammer]

I was going to post something thoughtful here, but the amount of discussion garbage the thread has been filled with make it difficult.

 

[Vegeta897]

Meh, arguing between breakcore and eurocore is merely a difference in opinion, what your tastes are. At least the debate in this thread was a valid one not consisting entirely of opinion.

Also it wasn't our fault that retards decided to come into this thread about ELECTRONIC MUSIC and say it's shit and then leave, sparking the debate between rock vs. electronic. That's exactly what trolling is, and it worked, even if it was probably unintentional.

 

[Absinthe]

I was going to post something thoughtful here, but the amount of discussion garbage the thread has been filled with make it difficult.

Oh, just ****ing do it. Nobody's stopping you.

 

[Stigmata]

I was going to post something thoughtful here, but the amount of discussion garbage the thread has been filled with make it difficult.

If anything, your post is garbagier than the rock vs electronica debate, because that was at least kind of topical.

No offense

 

[CyberPitz]

Where's the "They all suck shit" option?

 

[Absinthe]

You're late on the bandwagon, Pitz.

-5 points for not being fresh.