HL2, great game- BUT WHERE THE HEC IS THE STORY??

[DarkStar]

What? They did? I missed it. argh.......

anyway, What is SMB's story?

You have to read the SMB novelizations. They're fascinating.

Almost like James Joyce actually.

 

[Fat Tony!]

Pff fps aren't meant to have story lines

 

[Beerdude26]

Nonono. Porn movies aren't supposed to have story lines. Come on, we don't want to see a ****ing blockbuster unravel here. It HAS to be like this : A guy talks with some chick but the chick has a boyfriend, the guy and the bf **** the chick. Reproductive organs in every corner of the camera. The end

FPS'es on the other hand...
E.g : Deus Ex, HL1+2

By the way Foebane, keep off the booze man, it'll get you banned sometime

 

[Dinkleberry]

What does QFT stand for?

I was wondering about that as well, and my hopes if it really standing for "Quite F:X:cking True" were kicked out next post.

 

[jet jaguar]

You want story, here:

http://members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/timeline.htm

This is taken from the game, most of it isn't explicitly stated, but then not everyone wants to be spoon fed.

So I'm just supposed to take this guy's word as fact anyway? I just want Valve to make sure HL3 actually answers some questions this time instead of leaving everything up to conjecture.

 

[Sid Burn]

For me, the story is great just read the HW saga storyline. it straightens it out.

http://fragfiles.org/~hlstory/

 

[Asknoone]

For me, the story is great just read the HW saga storyline. it straightens it out.

http://fragfiles.org/~hlstory/

It doesn't straighten it out. Thats about 80% speculation.

 

[Insano]

So I'm just supposed to take this guy's word as fact anyway? I just want Valve to make sure HL3 actually answers some questions this time instead of leaving everything up to conjecture.

From the frontpage of that site: "Good job! Marc Laidlaw pointed this out to me as being pretty darn accurate for the most part."

That makes this the best source so far.

 

[Asknoone]

No. Marc Laidlaw will not ever comment on the story, asking if the combine controlled xen won't get an answer. He won't discuss it. Therefore that is clearly a misquote, he is simply giving away to much story.

 

[michele]

Plus, if you know the storyline to the first game, the plot arcs in the sequel take on greater meaning.

Exactly.

You've got to play the first to really get the feel of the game. I mean, you can start with part 2... but then you'll end up saying, "It has no story to it"... which is lame. :sniper:

-michele

 

[Raxxman]

Seriously though, a game which you can't follow cause you haven't played another game is bad.

Take Baldurs Gate 1 and 2, You can play 1, or you can jump straight into 2, but you still pick up all that you need too.

I still think it's funny that people have a hard time telling the difference between background story and play story. It's like saying the Hobbit is an integral part of the Lord of the Rings. It's a pre story, and it's background in the LOTR but it serves no more purpose than to show how the ring got to where it was.

 

[lister]

hasn't ne1 else noticed how, altho half life 2 is gr8 there is practically no storyline/ i mean, all it is is a bunch of dudes (the combine) oppressing the good guys hu fight bak and win. u don't even find out what prof. breens evil plan is. And the end sequence where time stops- u think ur questions r about to be answered but WHAT AN ANTI CLIMAX TO A GR8 GAME! none of ur questions r answered- there is practically no story. If ne1 has figured out what the hec acctually happened pls let me no.

Obviously hasn't played HL1

 

[Foebane]

I've come to notice that most people who say "where's the story here" simply don't notice the numerous little hints posted everywhere, on walls, in dialogue, and so on. They thus assume that it's just a relatively mindless blaster with a tenuous plot at best, but that is not the case for most people, who enjoy the game immensely.

I don't know if any of you have ever seen Hayao Miyazaki's Spirited Away, but for a small minority who don't understand what's going on in the film, they would say the same thing. They would say that it's a film filled with wonderful imagery and little plot, but like HL2, the plot is revealed in more than just dialogue, but visuals as well, and only by paying full attention to what is going on can they understand the story.

Otherwise, these people will just think that HL2 is a mindless shooter, and that Spirited Away is one of those acid-trip Anime works, both with little content.

But paying close attention is all one needs to fully enjoy both stories. Maybe these people have little patience.

That's the conclusion I've come to anyway.

 

[pomegranate]

I've come to notice that most people who say "where's the story here" simply don't notice the numerous little hints posted everywhere, on walls, in dialogue, and so on. They thus assume that it's just a relatively mindless blaster with a tenuous plot at best, but that is not the case for most people, who enjoy the game immensely.

I don't know if any of you have ever seen Hayao Miyazaki's Spirited Away, but for a small minority who don't understand what's going on in the film, they would say the same thing. They would say that it's a film filled with wonderful imagery and little plot, but like HL2, the plot is revealed in more than just dialogue, but visuals as well, and only by paying full attention to what is going on can they understand the story.

Otherwise, these people will just think that HL2 is a mindless shooter, and that Spirited Away is one of those acid-trip Anime works, both with little content.

But paying close attention is all one needs to fully enjoy both stories. Maybe these people have little patience.

That's the conclusion I've come to anyway.

People keep repeating this and it pisses me off.
I for one DO realise that there are little hints throughout the game. The problem is that these little subtleties don't actually add up to a good storyline, no matter how you interpret them.
Yes, Valve have been quite clever in the way they tell what story there is, but this doesn't magically make that story substantial or interesting. The fact is that the "clues" are too vague or pointless for the story to actually have any definition. What Valve should have done was create an interesting story with intrigue and suspense, and then tell it through this method that the fanboys love to use to argue that
"Of course the story is good, because they told it to you without spoonfeeding you, thus is must be a good plot! If you don't get it you're stupid and don't appreciate Valve's masterful storytelling method!"

 

[Asknoone]

People keep repeating this and it pisses me off.
I for one DO realise that there are little hints throughout the game. The problem is that these little subtleties don't actually add up to a good storyline, no matter how you interpret them.
Yes, Valve have been quite clever in the way they tell what story there is, but this doesn't magically make that story substantial or interesting. The fact is that the "clues" are too vague or pointless for the story to actually have any definition. What Valve should have done was create an interesting story with intrigue and suspense, and then tell it through this method that the fanboys love to use to argue that
"Of course the story is good, because they told it to you without spoonfeeding you, thus is must be a good plot! If you don't get it you're stupid and don't appreciate Valve's masterful storytelling method!"

Drivel. The litte points arent just posters on the wall...they are things people say, like Breens speeches etc...How these are meaningless I shall never know. If we removed every poster and clipboard from the game, are you saying that you'd understand the story.

 

[subtlesnake]

No. Marc Laidlaw will not ever comment on the story, asking if the combine controlled xen won't get an answer. He won't discuss it. Therefore that is clearly a misquote, he is simply giving away to much story.

Three things:

Firstly, Laidlaw was commenting privately to Gary McTaggart, not to HL fans or the community in general. His comments were disclosed not by him but Gary McTaggart.

Secondly, that quote doesn't specifically confirm anything, it deals with the accuracy of the whole piece.

Thirdly, the quote is accurate: http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=9085204

 

[Raxxman]

Drivel. The litte points arent just posters on the wall...they are things people say, like Breens speeches etc...How these are meaningless I shall never know. If we removed every poster and clipboard from the game, are you saying that you'd understand the story.

Now that was Drivel. He never said anything like that.

What he said was that Valve stringed you along, you got little snippets hints, but nothing solid all the way through, then the game ends.

He's also saying that if Valve had introduced a more involving story, that featured a bit more than get to A (power station) get to B (Nova Prospect) get to C (Citadel) and kill things on your way then they'd of hit a solid gold winner.

As is, what they tried to do failed. All the little bits were fantastic, but it needed more. That's the problem, the outside was grand and rich and full of flavour. But the core of the plot is not involving or as clever as they probally hoped it would be.

Half-Life 2 simply is a group of action set peices. Very well put together, with a solid backstory. But that's it.

 

[ríomhaire]

I don't see how anyone could think Dr. Breen was evil. To be evil you must knowingly do wrong or simply not care. Breen is clearing trying to save mankind. Albeit, while trying to get himself as comfortable as possiblle.

 

[A True Canadian]

Half-Life 2 simply is a group of action set peices. Very well put together, with a solid backstory. But that's it.

Isn't that what shooters are supposed to be? A group of action pieces derived from a setup or backstory?

 

[pomegranate]

Drivel. The litte points arent just posters on the wall...they are things people say, like Breens speeches etc...How these are meaningless I shall never know. If we removed every poster and clipboard from the game, are you saying that you'd understand the story.

I didn't say anything was meaningless. I didn't knock the method or way of communicating plot points. What I said, quite categorically, was that the story that this method actually communicates isn't that interesting or substantial. I'm repeating myself here, because I don't see how your response is meant to relate to this point I made.

 

[Asknoone]

Care to explain how it is simply a solid backstory? I agree it does, and at times it might feel like thats all there is to it...but it isn't.

 

[pomegranate]

I'd love to see different people's interpretations, by the way... Though I doubt it, it is possible I'm missing some hidden meaning. I never could see Magic Eyes.

 

[Ahnteis]

The problem is some people are being used to having the "story" shoved down their throat by means of a movie separate from the game (commonly called a "cutscene"). When the story is right IN the game, they just can't seem to get it.

 

[pomegranate]

Ahnteis, can I respectfully ask you to read my post #95?

Also, Half-Life 1 didn't have any cut scenes either , and I don't recall anyone saying that it's plot was lacking. I for loved the original game's dramatic, twisty story, which only makes it all the more galling that HL2's failed to engage.

 

[Cole]

There is a story, though it leaves so many questions.
The Rebels know of the GMan. - Handed em a Rocket Launcher.
The vortigaunts know of the GMan. - TV.

Breen is not evil at all. As once said "One group is wrong and the other is really wrong" or something close to that.

There is a story, and maybe in your opinon it isn't solid enough but this isn't suppose to be a RPG or anything like that. For an FPS it's more than solid according to me.

 

[pomegranate]

The thing is Minerel that those, and many other details don't really add up to anything in particular, other than vague possibilities, speculation and, as you say, unresolved questions...

 

[Asknoone]

Three things:

Firstly, Laidlaw was commenting privately to Gary McTaggart, not to HL fans or the community in general. His comments were disclosed not by him but Gary McTaggart.

Secondly, that quote doesn't specifically confirm anything, it deals with the accuracy of the whole piece.

Thirdly, the quote is accurate: http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=9085204

Not what about it was accurate, something was accurate but thats still no need to post the link everywhere claiming its some sort of bible.

So I'm guessing Pomegranete...you just can't put your finger on what wasn't needed?

 

[pomegranate]

I don't know what you mean... what wasn't needed? Huh?

 

[subtlesnake]

What depth did HL's story have that HL2's lacked? There were plot events in HL, there were plot events in HL2. Both included some sort of backstory, and in HL there were arguably just as many unanswered questions.

 

[pomegranate]

What depth did HL's story have that HL2's lacked? There were plot events in HL, there were plot events in HL2. Both included some sort of backstory, and in HL there were arguably just as many unanswered questions.

Re-read my post that you're responding to. I didn't say anything about depth of story. I said it was more engaging.

 

[jet jaguar]

The thing is Minerel that those, and many other details don't really add up to anything in particular, other than vague possibilities, speculation and, as you say, unresolved questions...

Thank you.

As a sequel, HL2 had an obligation to flesh out the story and characters. Of course we expect to have more questions arise but we also expect to have some questions answered from the original game. I think HL2 did a very poor job of resolving anything. Connecting the dots is one thing, with HL2 you have to make some incredible assumptions to make the clues fit.

 

[subtlesnake]

Re-read my post that you're responding to. I didn't say anything about depth of story. I said it was more engaging.

Your overall point is that HL2's plot lacks substance or definition. Are you saying that Half-Life suffered from the same problems too but was still engaging?

If you're not saying that then what substance does HL's plot have that HL2's does not?

I think HL2 did a very poor job of resolving anything. Connecting the dots is one thing, with HL2 you have to make some incredible assumptions to make the clues fit.

Which assumptions would these be?

 

[pomegranate]

Your overall point is that HL2's plot lacks substance or definition. Are you saying that Half-Life suffered from the same problems too but was still engaging?

If you're not saying that then what substance does HL's plot have that HL2's does not?

No! JESUS! The comparision I made between HL1 and HL2 was that neither depended on cutscenes for telling the plot, but HL1 had a more engaging plot.
I didn't say that HL1's plot suffered from lack substance or definition. I was making a seperate point, that neither games depended on cut-scenes for telling the story, but HL1 managed to tell a better story all the same.

Okay, your second point...
It's clear what your objective s
It's clear why you're fighting
You know what the setting is (i.e. New Mexico, 200-, "the real world")

I'll come back to this, but I've had a long day...

 

[jet jaguar]

Which assumptions would these be?

The water is being siphoned by the Combine...we don't know that for sure. Besides seeing lower than normal water levels there's absolutely no mention made of this throughout the game. Maybe the Combine lowered the temperature of the planet leading to freezing more water than usual, causing tides to recede?

The Xen are enslaved just like humans...besides the vortigaunts what other Xen aliens are available to corroburate(?) this claim? Having a garg jump in at the last second to save Gordon's butt from a strider not only would've helped clarify this, it would've been cool as hell.

Humans have all been sterilized because we see no children...maybe the Combine took the children, we don't know for sure either way. The npc's do say stuff like 'I want to make babies.' but that can just as easily be little more than a meaningless, random statement like 'I like cheese.'

And we're still no closer than we were at the end of HL to knowing who G-man represents and what his purpose is(although I can understand why Valve wants to keep him mysterious so this isn't a big complaint).

Seriously, is it unreasonable for Gordon to have asked the scientists what the heck happened from the time of Black Mesa to City 17? That brings up another point, how and why did all the Black Mesa scientists get moved to an east European city? What happened to North America? All I'm saying is that HL3 needs to give up some answers and stop with all the vague and/or unexplained references.

 

[Foebane]

Seriously, is it unreasonable for Gordon to have asked the scientists what the heck happened from the time of Black Mesa to City 17? That brings up another point, how and why did all the Black Mesa scientists get moved to an east European city? What happened to North America? All I'm saying is that HL3 needs to give up some answers and stop with all the vague and/or unexplained references.

They try to explain it to Gordon, don't they? And we see the newspaper stuff about the portal storms (well, if we BOTHER to look, that's all).

Maybe North America got totally nuked or destroyed in some way - after all, the most powerful nation was bound to be a threat to the Combine.

I agree! Let's have a sense of closure in HL3!

 

[subtlesnake]

I didn't say that HL1's plot suffered from lack substance or definition. I was making a seperate point, that neither games depended on cut-scenes for telling the story, but HL1 managed to tell a better story all the same.

Right, then my original point stands - What depth did HL's story have that HL2's lacked? I would equate depth to substance.

Okay, your second point...
It's clear what your objective s
It's clear why you're fighting
You know what the setting is (i.e. New Mexico, 200-, "the real world")

Your objective is to stop the Combine, or more specifically help the resistance fight against the Combine. Over the course of the game you're given various sub objectives, like: get to Black Mesa East, meet up with Alyx and help rescue Eli, help Barney, lead the uprising and rescue Eli again.

This is why you're fighting, to save humanity from the grip of the Combine. Similarly your aim in HL is to escape, and that's something that's apparent without the need for anyone to tell you that.

The water is being siphoned by the Combine...we don't know that for sure. Besides seeing lower than normal water levels there's absolutely no mention made of this throughout the game. Maybe the Combine lowered the temperature of the planet leading to freezing more water than usual, causing tides to recede?

This isn't part of the games story, isn't touched upon at all in the game, and really isn't necessary for the story to fit.

The Xen are enslaved just like humans...besides the vortigaunts what other Xen aliens are available to corroburate(?) this claim? Having a garg jump in at the last second to save Gordon's butt from a strider not only would've helped clarify this, it would've been cool as hell.

Why do you need other Xen aliens? The Vortigaunts are the only enemy who we know are enslaved (in HL and HL2). For all we know the Gargs were part of the Combine's attacking force. Again this isn't a 'clue' that has to be made to fit, it's just something we're not told.

Humans have all been sterilized because we see no children...maybe the Combine took the children, we don't know for sure either way. The npc's do say stuff like 'I want to make babies.' but that can just as easily be little more than a meaningless, random statement like 'I like cheese.'

Breen's first speech explicitly states that humans have been sterilised, or have at least had their reproductive abilities suppressed.

Seriously, is it unreasonable for Gordon to have asked the scientists what the heck happened from the time of Black Mesa to City 17? That brings up another point, how and why did all the Black Mesa scientists get moved to an east European city? What happened to North America? All I'm saying is that HL3 needs to give up some answers and stop with all the vague and/or unexplained references.

Yeah, but if Gordon could talk a lot would be different; all the dialogue would be different for one thing. So the game reality diverges from your 'Gordon as a character reality' anyway. Gordon may be a character who can ask questions about what's happening to him, but not in HL or HL2.

We're told that portal storms have ****ed up the Earth and that City 17 is one of humanities last remaining urban centers, so we can at least infer what's happened.

 

[Asknoone]

That brings up another point, how and why did all the Black Mesa scientists get moved to an east European city? What happened to North America? .

:| :|

Why does it have to be in North America? Nothing special about America you know. It is like saying why does doom 3 take place on mars and not the moon. They are their because its the central combine HQ...were told this in the first 5 minutes of the game "Breens base of operations." and the resistance is there because it can do more damage there.

 

[Foebane]

:| :|

Why does it have to be in North America? Nothing special about America you know. It is like saying why does doom 3 take place on mars and not the moon. They are their because its the central combine HQ...were told this in the first 5 minutes of the game "Breens base of operations." and the resistance is their because it can do more damage their.

(sigh) A senior poster from the UK who should know the language by now... :|

 

[LoB]

The water is being siphoned by the Combine...we don't know that for sure. Besides seeing lower than normal water levels there's absolutely no mention made of this throughout the game. Maybe the Combine lowered the temperature of the planet leading to freezing more water than usual, causing tides to recede?

I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that this is stated in Raising the Bar, although it doesn't really matter to the overall plot, it is still valid and isn't really an assumption. It's a valid in-game background factor. But I wouldn't waste too much time on its importance if I were you.

The Xen are enslaved just like humans...besides the vortigaunts what other Xen aliens are available to corroburate(?) this claim? Having a garg jump in at the last second to save Gordon's butt from a strider not only would've helped clarify this, it would've been cool as hell.

As you state, the vortigaunts do seem to indicate this fact, but they're not the only leads we have. Something Nihilanth said in HL 1 was "Slaves.. We are all slaves.." as I seem to recall. But then again my memory might be failing me.

Humans have all been sterilized because we see no children...maybe the Combine took the children, we don't know for sure either way. The npc's do say stuff like 'I want to make babies.' but that can just as easily be little more than a meaningless, random statement like 'I like cheese.'

Breen's speeches, although sometimes hard to hear, do indicate all of this, as subtlesnake previously said. A good help for understanding the speeches are the in-game subtitles.

Seriously, is it unreasonable for Gordon to have asked the scientists what the heck happened from the time of Black Mesa to City 17? That brings up another point, how and why did all the Black Mesa scientists get moved to an east European city? What happened to North America? All I'm saying is that HL3 needs to give up some answers and stop with all the vague and/or unexplained references.

Not unreasonable at all, although if you think about HL 2's pace, did Gordon really have the time or the chances to ask such questions?
He's suddenly been dropped in a future Earth, placed in the messianic role of "saviour of mankind", confronted with an oppressive totalitarian regime of aliens referred to as the Combine or The Benefactors who alter men, turning them into the Overwatch, he's rushed from place to place, constantly on the run...
So far, this only seems to indicate that you are right, and you are, in a way. But the point is that he doesn't really have a good chance to ask questions, regardless of you hearing him speak or not.. All the time he spent with the other main characters is very short, and not in the most favorable conditions for question-asking.. Either the Combine rush in, or he gets teleported away, or he's being shot at by snipers, etc.

So, while I do agree with you in that it wouldn't be unreasonable, I tend to think that the circumstances were not the most favorable, hence the plot seeming a bit loose at times.

Just thought I'd pitch in with my ideas..

 

[Asknoone]

(sigh) A senior poster from the UK who should know the language by now... :|

Ooops.....

But yeah, you know, spelling.....how tragic.