How has religion affected you?

[CptStern]

I object to the unlawful slaughtering of innocent civilians. I feel awful every time it happens. THe people that are supposed to be dying are the military people only, but unfortunately that doesn't always happen as planned.

yet you did nothing to stop it from happening in the first place, and you do nothing to hold your government accountable for those deaths ..by saying nothing it is tantamount to agreeing with the decion that sent 10's of thosands to an early grave

 

[Sulkdodds]

What God do I need but the infinite beauty and complexity of reality?
What else is the infinite beauty and complexity of reality but God?
Whoooooooooooooooooo.

PS: In general, organised religion sucks.

 

[Nat Turner]

yet you did nothing to stop it from happening in the first place, and you do nothing to hold your government accountable for those deaths ..by saying nothing it is tantamount to agreeing with the decion that sent 10's of thosands to an early grave

Yup, and Iran's next....

 

[Uriel]

Theres a nice middle of the road. The extreme on both sides is bad.

OMG, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL vs. OMG, YOU'RE A MORON FOR BELIEVING IN RELIGION

True Religion is about Free Agency.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Theres a nice middle of the road. The extreme on both sides is bad.

OMG, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL vs. OMG, YOU'RE A MORON FOR BELIEVING IN RELIGION

Agreed.

 

[dream431ca]

Isn't that what you believe tho?

HAHA!! No way!! I certainly don't believe in that at all! I am a christian, but one of the few ones who are actually open minded. I really don't talk about god much at all, but here is what I believe so we can clear this up. I believe, whether you have a religion or not, you will not be sent to pain and suffering. EVER!! The only person that can send you to what we call "hell", is yourself. Christianity is more about common sense than anything. So I certainly do not believe that if you do not believe in god you go to hell because that's for closed minded people who fail to see actual people in everyday life...they only see their self-centered view. And also, people like that are extremely insecure, and are putting down other people for their own benefit...which is what christianity extremely apposes in the first place...so those people are confused and need a reality check. I don't read the bible because there is so much more to it than just a book. I don't get angry at other people with a different religion...it's their choice and I hate people who put down someone with a different religion. What makes me different from those people is that, I understand what is going on around me and I realise that all that matters is if they are good people; people who don't judge others for what they do or what the believe in, people who think first about other people's choices before they say something, people who actually realize that religion is to be kept to yourself and not to force it on others.

Lets make it clear that I believe that whatever makes people happy is what they should believe in.

 

[Nat Turner]

HAHA!! No way!! I certainly don't believe in that at all! I am a christian, but one of the few ones who are actually open minded. I really don't talk about god much at all, but here is what I believe so we can clear this up. I believe, whether you have a religion or not, you will not be sent to pain and suffering. EVER!! The only person that can send you to what we call "hell", is yourself. Christianity is more about common sense than anything. So I certainly do not believe that if you do not believe in god you go to hell because that's for closed minded people who fail to see actual people in everyday life...they only see their self-centered view. And also, people like that are extremely insecure, and are putting down other people for their own benefit...which is what christianity extremely apposes in the first place...so those people are confused and need a reality check. I don't read the bible because there is so much more to it than just a book. I don't get angry at other people with a different religion...it's their choice and I hate people who put down someone with a different religion. What makes me different from those people is that, I understand what is going on around me and I realise that all that matters is if they are good people; people who don't judge others for what they do or what the believe in, people who think first about other people's choices before they say something, people who actually realize that religion is to be kept to yourself and not to force it on others.

Lets make it clear that I believe that whatever makes people happy is what they should believe in.

Do you read and believe in scripture? If you do, then you pretty much have to believe that people who don't accept Jesus or don't believe in God go to Hell (in more or less words). It's mentioned several times I think.

 

[Ome_Vince]

point 6. ...crusades, inquisition, genocide of the Armenian people, St. Bartholomew's Day massacre, Massacres of Indian Independence, Russian Pogroms, the Mountain Meadows massacre, Bosnia, East Timor, Ivory Coast, Jonestown etc etc ..cruelty/murder/mayhem at the hands of people who've "found" god

First of all:
Most causes of war : territory, money, power:
world war 1, world war 2 Adolf Hitler( genocide of jews ), slavery of africans, civil war, vietnam, china, French-English 100 years war, Congo civil war about races, Ethiopia territory, Napoleon, Japan imperialism, South American wars, Massacre of the Indians etc etc etc all about people who thought "this land is mine", "i want that land", "i want that power", "he's black so he's my slave" etc etc.

Wanna do a bodycount comparisson? All i have to state is even 1 of them: ww2 = 55 MILLION DEAD...

So, should we remove Territory, money, power there should be no more wars?
LOL!
There will ALWAYS be war, you really want to know WHY? Its not religion, territory or money its mankinds nature and its need to find an excuse.
Hence EXACTLY what you are doing. Finding a patsy-> religion.

ALL wars evolve around intollerance and greed. Mankinds fight to become "the top monkey".
Thats our nature, and has NOTHING to do with religion. Religion was used as an excuse, just like a baseball bat can be used as an excuse to kill people.

If you want to ban every organisation or thing that ever "made a mistake", then we should all kill ourselves, and dismiss countries...

My whole point is, i've never met an Atheist with tollerance for relgious people, and im trying to "change" that. And if you take fanatics as example, i say your no better than generalising, and there were 1 group of people in history that were masters in that: The nazi's ( who btw also supported Atheism and in the long run wanted to abolish all religions ).

If an atheist cant even have the common decency to respect somebody who believes, or a religion in general, and brands mankinds mistakes on religion, i say the world is becoming a sad sad place, and hasnt changed a bit since ww2...

 

[Raziaar]

Do you read and believe in scripture? If you do, then you pretty much have to believe that people who don't accept Jesus or don't believe in God go to Hell. It's mentioned several times I think.

YOU're going to hell. Others aren't.

 

[CptStern]

First of all:
Most causes of war : territory, money, power:
world war 1, world war 2 Adolf Hitler( genocide of jews ), slavery of africans, civil war, vietnam, china, French-English 100 years war, Congo civil war about races, Ethiopia territory, Napoleon, Japan imperialism, South American wars, Massacre of the Indians etc etc etc all about people who thought "this land is mine", "i want that land", "i want that power", "he's black so he's my slave" etc etc.

Wanna do a bodycount comparisson? All i have to state is even 1 of them: ww2 = 55 MILLION DEAD...

So, should we remove Territory, money, power there should be no more wars?
LOL!
There will ALWAYS be war, you really want to know WHY? Its not religion, territory or money its mankinds nature and its need to find an excuse.
Hence EXACTLY what you are doing. Finding a patsy-> religion.

ALL wars evolve around intollerance and greed. Mankinds fight to become "the top monkey".
Thats our nature, and has NOTHING to do with religion. Religion was used as an excuse, just like a baseball bat can be used as an excuse to kill people.

If you want to ban every organisation or thing that ever "made a mistake", then we should all kill ourselves, and dismiss countries...

My whole point is, i've never met an Atheist with tollerance for relgious people, and im trying to "change" that. And if you take fanatics as example, i say your no better than generalising, and there were 1 group of people in history that were masters in that: The nazi's ( who btw also supported Atheism and in the long run wanted to abolish all religions ).

If an atheist cant even have the common decency to respect somebody who believes, or a religion in general, and brands mankinds mistakes on religion, i say the world is becoming a sad sad place, and hasnt changed a bit since ww2...

look I dont care what fairy tale you subscribe to, but once you involve yourself in things that affect me, you bet your righteous ass I'm not going to sit back and let it slip. We (non religious) REALLY REALLY couldnt care less if you set yourself on fire (no seriiously, we wouldnt), but when you start saying that outlandish idiotic stories should be taught in schools as fact, then we stand up and take notice, or what we can and cant do with our bodies, or when you try to tell the rest of us who we can and cant marry then it's time to stand up and give you a collective kick to the head






oh and what the hell does the above have to do with massacres perpetrated by religious groups? the point is that they used a religion as a justification for their actions

 

[Raziaar]

You speak as if Athiests are unified?

And stern. you can use ANYTHING as a justification for your actions. Doesn't make it right.

I will kill babies in the name of CptStern, for he is worshiped by many on these forums and it should therefore be viewed as justifiable.

Nope. doesn't work.

 

[Ome_Vince]

allright i see CptStern is getting emotional. There is no need to cry...
you can believe whatever you want, aslong as you respect what others believe.

And if you want a discussion on what's true or not, then lets go. You want to discuss:
-What caused the most wars?
-How many people died for what cause the most?

Then lets go, and ill show you what fairy tale i have a subscription to: its called history and reality.

And i see your becoming offensice which is a sign of weakness, especially the "kick to the head" thing. Your very brave saying that nicely hiding behind your comp. Man your a real toughguy, behind the comp where nobody can actually smack you for becoming offensive.
But o well, go right ahead, flame all you want, i think this topic has proven who are tollerant and who not...

 

[Sulkdodds]

@ Stern: you speak with a collective 'you'. So...all Christians?

It's silly to say that religion is not to blame for a load of things because...um, it is. It's a cause that fight for and is quite possibly unrivalled in its ability to drive people towards a common goal. Doesn't mean it's intrinsically bad.

 

[dream431ca]

Do you read and believe in scripture? If you do, then you pretty much have to believe that people who don't accept Jesus or don't believe in God go to Hell (in more or less words). It's mentioned several times I think.

What do you mean the scripture?? You mean the bible?? I just said I don't read the bible at all. I don't care how many times it's mentioned, I don't believe in that part of the scripture....as I don't believe in many other parts...what I do believe is that you cannot be a christian and damn someone to hell, it doesn't make sense! If christian is about peace and love and other stuff like that, that goes for everybody....everyone should have the right to peace and stuff like that..not just christians, that is complete and utter bullshit talk from the extremists....and like I said before, as far as I am concerned, the scripture is a story, a way to learn about the religion...what you decide to take seriously and not take seriously is your own choice, cause that's what religion is all about...choice.

 

[Uriel]

Man your a real toughguy, behind the comp where nobody can actually smack you for becoming offensive.

If there ever was such a thing that allowed me to virtual punch people thru the screen, i would invest my life savings into it. Half the people who play DotA would be a bloody pulp.

 

[CptStern]

Your very brave saying that nicely hiding behind your comp. Man your a real toughguy, behind the comp where nobody can actually smack you for becoming offensive.

they can try, but I guarentee I'm easily twice your size and it's not nice to threaten people on the internet(s)

But o well, go right ahead, flame all you want, i think this topic has proven who are tollerant and who not...

hmmm it sounds to me like you cant be bothered to answer the tough questions

 

[Yuri]

Negatively in some ways. Positively in others. Mostly not so much, I guess.

 

[Ome_Vince]

@CptStern
1. Ah well who cares, you go ahead dreaming buddy. I wasnt threatening a thing, for its so useless to do so. I wont attend your internet battle on who can "Scare" or "be the virtual toughguy" the most.

2. Bring the questions on. I asked you 2 on which subject. So lets do this correct. Ask me a question then we start on mutual grounds of history and science.
My goal is not to prove there is or is not a god, but to get mutual respect from Atheists in general.

 

[CptStern]

@CptStern
1. Ah well who cares, you go ahead dreaming buddy. I wasnt threatening a thing, for its so useless to do so. I wont attend your internet battle on who can "Scare" or "be the virtual toughguy" the most.

2. Bring the questions on. I asked you 2 on which subject. So lets do this correct. Ask me a question then we start on mutual grounds of history and science.
My goal is not to prove there is or is not a god, but to get mutual respect from Atheists in general.

mutual respect? not going to happen ever, just agree to disagree and leave it at that

 

[Ome_Vince]

Allright. No mutual respect.
I usually have alot of respect for agnosts and atheists, but not to the ones who dont have mutual respect or tollerance for other "beliefs" or "faith".

 

[Yuri]

You know, Stern, sometimes you remind me of a fanatic religious person... only your religion is no religion.

Just cuz religion is to blame for lots of bullshit doesn't mean everyone who is religious is an idiot that tries to make others believe what they believe. I mean, that's what you're trying to do. I know plenty of people that believe in their religion and don't force it on others, and are not idiots at all...

If there was no religion, then there would be some other idea that groups of people would believe in and differ on, and then fight over. Like nationalism and race. It's what humans do, because they are goddamn stupid.

 

[CptStern]

Allright. No mutual respect.
I usually have alot of respect for agnosts and atheists, but not to the ones who dont have mutual respect or tollerance for other "beliefs" or "faith".

so if an atheist, married homosexual who just had an abotion came up to shake your hand you'd extend yours in friendship?


again I cant stress this enough: WE DONT CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN, it's only when you meddle in affairs that affect us all do we stand and take notice

You know, Stern, sometimes you remind me of a fanatic religious person... only your religion is no religion.

Just cuz religion is to blame for lots of bullshit doesn't mean everyone who is religious is an idiot that tries to make others believe what they believe. I mean, that's what you're trying to do. I know plenty of people that believe in their religion and don't force it on others, and are not idiots at all...

If there was no religion, then there would be some other idea that groups of people would believe in and differ on, and then fight over. Like nationalism and race. It's what humans do, because they are goddamn stupid.

where do I make a comment that people who have faith are idiots? I've stated many times I dont care what they believe in, be it a flying spaghetti monster or so dood who was nailed to a cross less than 2000 years ago ...I DONT CARE

 

[Yuri]

look I dont care what fairy tale you subscribe to, but once you involve yourself in things that affect me, you bet your righteous ass I'm not going to sit back and let it slip. We (non religious) REALLY REALLY couldnt care less if you set yourself on fire (no seriiously, we wouldnt), but when you start saying that outlandish idiotic stories should be taught in schools as fact, then we stand up and take notice, or what we can and cant do with our bodies, or when you try to tell the rest of us who we can and cant marry then it's time to stand up and give you a collective kick to the head

"Fairy tale" and "outlandish idiotic stories"

Despite the fact that it shouldn't be taught in schools, you directly insult religion all the goddamn time. It's usually Christianity, too. That's no better than a Christian who mocks Islam. Or a Jewish person who mocks the Christian.

 

[Sulkdodds]

so if an atheist, married homosexual who just had an abotion came up to shake your hand you'd extend yours in friendship?

So all Christians give a shit about those things? You're kinda generalising there. :/

 

[Ome_Vince]

Ah Cptstern here's where you screw up. I have nothing against homosexuals or abortion ( and i am Katholic but not religious.. ).
I believe only George Bush and US fanatic christian pals have a problem with it. The Pope doesnt like it, but nobody pays attention to that. Your generalisation reminds me of religious fanatics. Erestheux is right! Your an extremist! And its not even funny! You should reread how you spearhead into your crusade against religion!

And i would extend hands in friendship, as would all christians except the innevitable fanatic morons.

If you dont care, then the least thing you could bring up is tollerance, but nope, your not capable of that, because your a fanatic who DOES care. only fanatics dont share respect for other beliefs.

Meddle with affairs that effect all? Who? what? Me stating that we should respect each others convictions is meddling with affairs that effect all?
Since when is asking respect something bad?

 

[Bait]

look I dont care what fairy tale you subscribe to, but once you involve yourself in things that affect me, you bet your righteous ass I'm not going to sit back and let it slip. We (non religious) REALLY REALLY couldnt care less if you set yourself on fire (no seriiously, we wouldnt), but when you start saying that outlandish idiotic stories should be taught in schools as fact, then we stand up and take notice, or what we can and cant do with our bodies, or when you try to tell the rest of us who we can and cant marry then it's time to stand up and give you a collective kick to the head

****ing hell, Stern. If you want to make your point, do it so you don't sound like a raving lunatic. Canadians are supposed to be calm and cool, leaving the quick bursts of raving and yelling to our southern friends.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

This thread proves that you don't have to believe in God to be prejudiced.

You're all wankers. Every. Single. One.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Bait]

This thread proves that you don't have to believe in God to be prejudiced.

You're all wankers. Every. Single. One.

-Angry Lawyer

Thanks for the heads up. You rock yourself.

 

[Uriel]

I Like Kitties!

 

[CptStern]

"Fairy tale" and "outlandish idiotic stories"

but I'm being accurate here:

fairy tale:

- A fictitious, highly fanciful story or explanation


many of the stories ARE outlandish or just downright idiotic:

Lev 19:27, Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

Exodus: 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.


Lev. 21:16-23: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles. 21 No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must not come near to offer the food of his God. 22 He may eat the most holy food of his God, as well as the holy food; 23 yet because of his defect, he must not go near the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary. I am the LORD, who makes them holy.

on animal sacrifices:

Leviticus 1:13 But he shall wash the inwards and the legs with water: and the priest shall bring it all, and burn it upon the altar: it is a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD. "

mmmmm burning flesh


and this is my favourite:

Exodus: "He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed."

...if that were followed 4 billion people would lose their lives


there's tons more

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

Despite the fact that it shouldn't be taught in schools, you directly insult religion all the goddamn time. It's usually Christianity, too. That's no better than a Christian who mocks Islam. Or a Jewish person who mocks the Christian.

it's not my fault christians are disporportionately against most social issues

 

[Uriel]

Many scriptures are symbolic, there are also many different translations of the Bible. Honestly i dont understand the bible, or atleast most of old Testiment. Which is why I read the Book of Mormon. Many scriptures we wouldnt understand because they were written at that time.

For instance. There was this scripture that talked about being rich and going to heaven. I cant remember the exact words or where it was at, but i think it described that going to heaven when you're rich is about as hard as having a camel walk thru the eye of a needle or something like that. But infact it was talking about the entrance way to a particular city in which the gate was labeled the eye, and was somewhat small. Many larger loads on a camel could not fit thru.

See what I'm getting at?

 

[Bait]

Translations of the bible over the years has diluted it somewhat. I am no expert on the matter, but I would think the effects of these translations were extensive.

 

[CptStern]

Many scriptures are symbolic, there are also many different translations of the Bible. Honestly i dont understand the bible, or atleast most of old Testiment. Which is why I read the Book of Mormon. Many scriptures we wouldnt understand because they were written at that time.

For instance. There was this scripture that talked about being rich and going to heaven. I cant remember the exact words or where it was at, but i think it described that going to heaven when you're rich is about as hard as having a camel walk thru the eye of a needle or something like that. But infact it was talking about the entrance way to a particular city in which the gate was labeled the eye, and was somewhat small. Many larger loads on a camel could not fit thru.

See what I'm getting at?

that's not true


http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

 

[Ome_Vince]

Adolf Hitler stated religion was poison to mankind, and jews were the spearhead of this poison. Followed : 7 million jews gassed, 45 million people died.

The roots of ALL wars even the religious ones are always : intollerance...

Its a shame your quoting a few "questionable" passages from the bible you fetched of some random website in which your trying to prove god doesnt exist and all christians/people that believe in a god are dumb.

Meinkampf was also disporportionate, you want to ban Germans or claim they are all dumb?

What even those passages tell you, is that there are intollerant people in this world.
some of these intollerant people are christians, some are muslims, some are jews, and some are people like you..
In the past religion was intollerant, and now its guys like you who are holding that banner.

Want proof? Read your own posts..

 

[Uriel]

Sum that Stern plz, Im doing wash and gotta leave soon.

 

[CptStern]

Adolf Hitler stated religion was poison to mankind, and jews were the spearhead of this poison. Followed : 7 million jews gassed, 45 million people died.

......and?

The roots of ALL wars even the religious ones are always : intollerance...

.....and? you seem to be saying that since war for territory is ok so is war for religion ..both are stupid

Its a shame your quoting a few "questionable" passages from the bible you fetched of some random website in which your trying to prove god doesnt exist and all christians/people that believe in a god are dumb.

? what the hell are you talking about? where am I trying to prove that god doesnt exist from those quotes? the point is that they are stupid stories, nothing more nothing less

Meinkampf was also disporportionate, you want to ban Germans or claim they are all dumb?

people dont live by Meinkampf so your analogy doesnt hold water

What even those passages tell you, is that there are intollerant people in this world.

noooooo, it tells us that if they really are the words of god, GOD is intolerant, not man

some of these intollerant people are christians, some are muslims, some are jews, and some are people like you..
In the past religion was intollerant, and now its guys like you who are holding that banner.

you never let it go ...and again WE DONT CARE TILL YOU MAKE US CARE

Want proof? Read your own posts..

again I'm intolerant when it comes to you people interfering with MY life or those around me ..oh and you never did answer my question about the married lesbian who just had an abortion

Sum that Stern plz, Im doing wash and gotta leave soon.

it means that there is no gate, the language itself was mistranslated and there was no gate, ever

 

[JNightshade]

Bah. I'm not touching this.

 

[Sulkdodds]

it's not my fault christians are disporportionately against most social issues

Are they? Or is that just the vocal minority? Because you know, most Christians I meet are not.

 

[Raziaar]

Take a chill pill Stern. I can see you're starting to alienate some people who would normally be on your side a little bit, by your endless ranting here. Why do you have to force your beliefs on people trying to ram it into their skull until they believe there is no god? You're doing the same thing you blame religious people of doing.

Someone earlier put it nicely... your religion is that there should be no religions... because you preach that fact 'religiously'.

 

[Uriel]

I'm not trying to force any of my beliefs on you. And when I do speak up, its usually pertaining to something that bugs me personally.
As for gay marriage, I want it banned. Abortion, I want it banned.
You can be gay, im not gonna stop you. But I dont want to give you tax benefits if you want to get married. Thats not marriage in my opinion.
Abortion, theres consequences to actions. Early abortions, i dont know. Late term abortions, no different than murder in my opinion. Middle of the road abortions, still dont know. Dont have sex, if you cant pay the consequences. Rape or incest is another subject.

These 2 things are something I view as a clear right and wrong issues. You can argue the gay thing, but i feel strong about abortion. Felt this way long before I became affilated with any religion.

Do aethiests view murder as wrong? or rape?