i'd take china instead of islam any day!

[hasan]

Guys, don't give me links, I hate linking and copy-pasting. If you've got nothing to say, just stop arguing.

If you think you're point is too obvious, you shouldn't, because I too think my point is to obvious, yet I am engaging in this seemingly pointless argument .. trying to see where it's gonna end up.

 

[hasan]

You just proved my point. I've argued there's nothing wrong about homosexuality because there is no evidence whatsoever that it is harmful to anyone.

And can you remind me what was your response for when I asked you why public sex and children-watching-sex shouldn't be allowed?

 

[RjD]

why don't you get the freedom to choose whether you should see someone's face or not. maybe we should ban fat people from walking on the street in case someone doesn't want to see fat people. or maybe we should prevent disabled people from going to schools and universities so that they don't disturb other students.

First, my argument against public nudity was mostly ironic (see smiley), I do not consider public nudity to be wrong (I could actually subscribe to a view like this : http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/30294 )

It is not very much about "seeing naked" but about "having intercourse".

People engaging in a any activity in public actually involve bystanders in this activity.


protesters in public involve pedestrians, and THAT IS THE VERY POINT OF PUBLIC PROTEST.

People having sex in public are involving pedestrians in this part of their life, just as public protesters involve pedestrians in their protest. Thus, I would consider sex in public a kind of sexual harassment, though not a very serious one.

I would agree that "light harassment" should be considered a minor offense, punished by a futile fee, like $100.

 

[Kyorisu]

Guys, don't give me links, I hate linking and copy-pasting. If you've got nothing to say, just stop arguing.

If you think you're point is too obvious, you shouldn't, because I too think my point is to obvious, yet I am engaging in this seemingly pointless argument .. trying to see where it's gonna end up.

To the overall majority of the forum it is not obvious therefore is is YOUR JOB to make it more obvious to us.

And can you remind me what was your response for when I asked you why public sex and children-watching-sex shouldn't be allowed?

RjD covered it for me. I told you to google it. Like I said I'm a logical person and I personally cannot see anything wrong with homosexuality. This is backed up by the lack of magical evidence that homosexuality is bad for you.

 

[hasan]

protesters in public involve pedestrians, and THAT IS THE VERY POINT OF PUBLIC PROTEST

umm, allowing protest is a basic freedom principle, you can't ban protests on the principle that it involves bystanders without their content.

 

[Kyorisu]

umm, allowing protest is a basic freedom principle, you can't ban protests on the principle that it involves bystanders without their content.

Do you have any clue what a comparison is? He compared the two because both involve the general public in the act. However a protest isn't as damaging to a person than rooting in public is.

 

[hasan]

RjD covered it for me.

are you talking about public sex? he said it's ok, you said it's not.


I AM trying to convince you .. by asking the ridiculous question of public sex. but you seem to be dodging around it.

 

[RjD]

lol, children don't know how to serve in the military; that's why they shouldn't do it.

That is the point!

Also, dealing with sex is not very easy. Children will have to learn stuff like handling refuse, for instance. They will also have to learn how to deal with interpersonal relations that arise between sexual partners.

Just like to serve in the army you have to learn some skills, you need some skills to deal with sex correctly

 

[Kyorisu]

are you talking about public sex? he said it's ok, you said it's not.

No he didn't.

People engaging in sex in the public would draw much attention (naked bodies and stuff). This will cause traffic jams and accidents Also, by having me witness their nudity and intercourse, the hypothetical public bangers in question actually draw me into their sex life as participant, to which I gave no consent. And this infringes on MY FREEDOM, My freedom not to be a part of some random ppl's sex life.

Theese are the only worthy reasons for public sex/nudity ban that I can think of.

 

[hasan]

Do you have any clue what a comparison is? He compared the two because both involve the general public in the act.

but that's the reason he cited for banning one, yet it cannot be the reason for banning the other. therefor this comparison is pointless.

Do you know how to argue??

seriously ..

 

[RjD]

umm, allowing protest is a basic freedom principle, you can't ban protests on the principle that it involves bystanders without their content.

You missed it entirely, please re-read.

 

[Kyorisu]

but that's the reason he cited for banning one, yet it cannot be the reason for banning the other. therefor this comparison is pointless.

Do you know how to argue??

seriously ..

Clearly you do not because RjD already covered why sex in public is bad.

 

[hasan]

That is the point!

Also, dealing with sex is not very easy. Children will have to learn stuff like handling refuse, for instance. They will also have to learn how to deal with interpersonal relations that arise between sexual partners.

Just like to serve in the army you have to learn some skills, you need some skills to deal with sex correctly

you don't get it.
so what if they watch sex? and what if they don't handle it correctly?? is one of them gonna rape the other? why? does he even have an interest in sex at his age?

 

[hasan]

Clearly you do not because RjD already covered why sex in public is bad.

did you read #163?
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2591679&postcount=163

 

[Kyorisu]

you don't get it.
so what if they watch sex? and what if they don't handle it correctly?? is one of them gonna rape the other? why? does he even have an interest in sex at his age?

Don't go there buddy. I could school your arse in matters of child psychology.

did you read #163?
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2591679&postcount=163

That's his personal belief. I am not talking about his personal beliefs on the matter of public sex and nudity but the actual laws that are in place NOW.

 

[RjD]

but that's the reason he cited for banning one, yet it cannot be the reason for banning the other. therefor this comparison is pointless.

Do you know how to argue??

seriously ..

No, the difference is that protesters involve pedestrians in PROTEST, and people having sex in public involve pedestrians IN SEXUAL ACT. Involving someone in SA without consent is either harassment or rape, depending upon the extent of involvement.


While I agree that being involved in someone's sexual act as a witness is petty discomfort and should not be considered a big deal, it is still a deal, though a small one.

P.S.: If someone thinks protest is sexual act , and claims that witnessing protest caused him suffering, he should be able to sue the protesters

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

such as convincing them that gayness is perfectly ok, or that evolution is an undeniable scientific fact.

Roflmao, are you really as dumb as you sound?

1) "gayness" is perfectly okay, and there is scientific proof of this. Just because you are too brainwashed to accept that doesn't mean it isn't true. I have several friends who are gay, all of them intelligent and perfectly normal individuals.

2) So, you have proof that evolution isn't true?

I thought not.

 

[hasan]

Roflmao, are you really as dumb as you sound?

1) "gayness" is perfectly okay, and there is scientific proof of this. Just because you are too brainwashed to accept that doesn't mean it isn't true. I have several friends who are gay, all of them intelligent and perfectly normal individuals.

2) So, you have proof that evolution isn't true?

I thought not.

rofl .. are you as dumb as you sound?

I thought not.

lololol

are you really serious?

 

[RjD]

@ Hasan

so what if they watch sex? and what if they don't handle it correctly?? is one of them gonna rape the other? why? does he even have an interest in sex at his age?

Awright! You made me do it! GO GO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE!

It has been shown that people who were exposed to porn before reaching 14 are more likely offenders, see W. L. Marshall, "The Use of Sexually Explicit Stimuli by Rapists, Child Molesters, and Nonoffenders," The Journal of Sex Research 25, no.2 (May 1988):

Also, piggy has a point. May I haz evidens of gayness harm and also evidens of evilution being a lie ?

 

[Kyorisu]

rofl .. are you as dumb as you sound?


lololol

are you really serious?

What the **** is wrong with you? Atomics post makes perfect sense and does not sound dumb at all. I now feel confident in calling you a moron. You have wasted enough of my time, good day.

@ Hasan


Awright! You made me do it! GO GO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE!

It has been shown that people who were exposed to porn before reaching 14 are more likely offenders, see W. L. Marshall, "The Use of Sexually Explicit Stimuli by Rapists, Child Molesters, and Nonoffenders," The Journal of Sex Research 25, no.2 (May 1988):

Also, piggy has a point. May I haz evidens of gayness harm and also evidens of evilution being a lie ?

I wonder how he'll try and brush that one off.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

rofl .. are you as dumb as you sound?


lololol

are you really serious?

Haha, so you cannot answer my questions or accept my answers and so instead go off in a pathetic attempt to insult me.

Never saw that one coming.

 

[hasan]

your friend is google, you have a keyboard .. just go for it

It has been shown that people who were exposed to porn before reaching 14 are more likely offenders, see W. L. Marshall, "The Use of Sexually Explicit Stimuli by Rapists, Child Molesters, and Nonoffenders," The Journal of Sex Research 25, no.2 (May 1988):

Dude, have you taken even a basic course in psychology?
that's no scientific evidence. That's just one research on a sample; in psychology !!! You probably don't know what that means!!

 

[hasan]

btw you wasted my time too, now I'm not gonna manage to comprehend any of today's lectures .. with only one hour of sleep! (if I even manage to sleep it)

 

[Kyorisu]

btw you wasted my time too, now I'm not gonna manage to comprehend any of today's lectures .. with only one hour of sleep! (if I even manage to sleep it)

That is your problem not mine. Such as it is my problem my time has been wasted.

your friend is google, you have a keyboard .. just go for it


Dude, have you taken even a basic course in psychology?
that's no scientific evidence. That's just one research on a sample; in psychology !!! You probably don't know what that means!!

There are many others like it, get a clue please. I did Psych for two years in Uni and children happened to be my main focus when I wasn't busy doing the mainstream work.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

/me whispers: I don't think he can accept that he's wrong and that his government/ideology is bullshit.

Oh, hi Hasan! I think I'll just go down, get a beer and drink in public because I am free to do so.

 

[Kyorisu]

I'm still wondering if I should rant about childrens phych and their development stages.

 

[RjD]

Yay for science!:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

@Hasan

Dude, have you taken even a basic course in psychology?
that's no scientific evidence. That's just one research on a sample; in psychology !!! You probably don't know what that means!!

This is, in fact, scientific evidence. Or, let me put it better, this research in particular does provide evidence.
If you want to know if the findings are confirmed by other studies (which should be for good scientific evidence)
YES.

SEE Edward Mulvey & Jeffrey Haugaard, Surgeon General's Workshop on Pornography and Public Health (Washington, DC: Dep't of HHS, June 22-24, 1986) (manuscript ed.)

So, indeed, yay for science.

@ Kyorisu

Yes, you most certainly should rant about childrens phych.

I will enjoy it

 

[Kyorisu]

Yay for science!:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

Hell yeah science :cheers:

Mini rant;

Exposure to sex can make the kiddies sexually active far earlier than intended. It could also lead them to be victimised by child fiddlers. Put simply they are not emotionally prepared to see sexual acts and in rare cases it can cause trauma to them. Exposure can also set in place bad examples of what a healthy sexual relationship is.

you don't get it.
so what if they watch sex? and what if they don't handle it correctly?? is one of them gonna rape the other? why? does he even have an interest in sex at his age?

You were saying?

 

[RjD]

Looks like Hasan's line of debate has collapsed upon him.

 

[RjD]

Some more nighttime reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

 

[Kyorisu]

I might write up some of my own stuff but in the mean time a google searched piece.

Sexually Reactive Children

"Sexually Reactive" children are pre-pubescent boys and girls who have been exposed to, or had contact with, inappropriate sexual activities. The sexually reactive child may engage in a variety of age-inappropriate sexual behaviors as a result of his or her own exposure to sexual experiences, and may begin to act out, or engage in, sexual behaviors or relationships that include excessive sexual play, inappropriate sexual comments or gestures, mutual sexual activity with other children, or sexual molestation and abuse of other children.

Inappropriate Sexual Exposure

For children aged below 11, we consider all forms of sexual exposure inappropriate, and especially for children aged 10 and younger. This includes:

-all forms of sexual activity with adolescents and adults

-viewing pornography or other sexually explicit material

-witnessing sexual behaviors between adults, adolescents, or other children

-excessive sexual play with a same age or older child who has more sophisticated sexual knowledge

-any situation in which a child is exposed to explicit sexual materials outside of an educational experience taught by qualified staff


References:

-Araji, Sharon K. (1997) "Sexually Aggressive Children." Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage Publications.

-Cavanaugh Johnson, Toni. (1999). "Understanding Your Child's Sexual Behavior." Oakland, CA: New Harbinger Publications.

-De Freitas, Chrystal (1998). "Keys to Your Child's Healthy Sexuality." Hauppauge, NY: Barrons Educational Series.

-Haffner, Debra W. (2000). "From Diapers to Dating: A Parent's Guide to Raising Sexually Healthy Children." New York: Newmarket Press.

-Salter, Anna C. (1988). "Treating Child Sex Offenders and Victims." Newburry Park, CA: Sage Publications.

First hit in google for my search http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/child_behavior/sexdev.html Tis all there.

 

[RjD]

*Sound of artillery*
*peculiar sound of thermobaric ordnance going off*

Now that was some hardcore evidence.

Kyorisu, respects :cheers:

 

[Kyorisu]

Trimmed it down a bit and added the link for those interested in the rest. I'm not qualified in the slightest but I have a certain grasp of the subject many others that went on to graduate lacked. I can find very similar material by myself and written by others too. These days you can find practically anything on the web which is why I told hasan to google. I'm actually interested in finding some long term children studies right now. I'll report back if anything interesting turns up. I myself participated in a study as a kid in primary school which is what got me interested in the first place.

is one of them gonna rape the other?

Possibly.

why? does he even have an interest in sex at his age?

Well children shouldn't but by exposing it to them they suddenly become very interested. Some more so than other. I was/still am somewhat effected by Asperger's Syndrome. Anyone with a basic understanding would know kids with Asperger's Syndrome can become incredibly interested and know every little detail about a subject. I won't tell you what mine was it changed from time to time. Now this is only an example and probably a very poor one at that, but kids getting fascinated with sex at an early age is not good for them.

Hopefully now that sets in stone why acts of sex are bad for kids to witness, which was part of my argument when you brought up why acts of public sex should be illegal.

/bows.

 

[RjD]

Errrrrm, awright, so what was it all about... Ah, Islam and freedom

 

[Kyorisu]

Errrrrm, awright, so what was it all about... Ah, Islam and freedom

Or the lack thereof. Oh and gays.

 

[RjD]

Or the lack thereof. Oh and gays.

mmmmmmm.... gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyysssss :angel:

 

[repiV]

Does this mean we will finally see an end to the "but teh moderate 99% Muslims are just like us, infact theyre more tolerant than teh christians!!!1111 RACIST FASCIST!!!" posts that inevitably end up here whenever Islam gets criticised?

 

[No Limit]

If this thread accomplished anything it proved that christians and muslims are exactly the same. If anyone disagrees they need to go talk to a "young earth creationist". Thanks Hasan.

And lol, anyone see the tags at the bottom of this page?

islam, lick me bitch, no u do bitch, pointless dodging debate, rawr rawr rawr politics, science rocks!, science what is?, u suck bitch and dicks

 

[RjD]

If this thread accomplished anything it proved that most christians and muslims are exactly the same.

fix.
Some very rare Christians (C.S. Lewis, for instance), are a tiny bit better.

 

[Javert]

Yay for science!:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

@Hasan


This is, in fact, scientific evidence. Or, let me put it better, this research in particular does provide evidence.
If you want to know if the findings are confirmed by other studies (which should be for good scientific evidence)
YES.

SEE Edward Mulvey & Jeffrey Haugaard, Surgeon General's Workshop on Pornography and Public Health (Washington, DC: Dep't of HHS, June 22-24, 1986) (manuscript ed.)

Just because it's "research" and "published" doesn't mean it's right. I'm sure that there are opposing research saying that there is no correlation between age of exposure and criminal offenders.

Most likely the research fails to solidify causal relations, that MOST men who are exposed at age 14 become offenders, while failing to take into account parents, economic situation, education, and location.