Israeli prisoner swap...

[Nemesis6]

Five Lebanese militants released today from prison in Israel received a hero's welcome home just hours after being awarded their freedom.

The men were freed by Israel in exchange for the return of the bodies of two Israeli soldiers kidnapped two years ago.
A rare prisoner exchange between Israel and terrorist group Hezbollah.

"Your return is a new victory and the future with you will only be a shining march in which we achieve the sovereignty of our land and the freedom of people," Lebanese President Michel Suleiman told the men during a speech in Beirut. The leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah, made a rare public appearance in Beirut to greet the freed men.

Earlier, the former prisoners, some wiping away tears, walked down a red carpet before hundreds of cheering people, just after crossing the border near the town of Naqoura in southern Lebanon, The Associated Press reported. "I congratulate the resistance [Hezbollah] for this new achievement," Suleiman would later add.

The most notorious of the released prisoners is Samir Kantar, who had been sentenced to life in prison for a grisly attack in 1979 that left a 4-year-old Israeli girl, her father and a policeman dead.

The kidnapping of the two Israeli soldiers, during a Hezbollah cross-border raid in July 2006, triggered a 34-day war between Israel and Lebanon.

The families of the two soldiers, Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev, had long worked for the return of the remains, but many in Israel felt the price was too high.

"Samir Kantar is a brutal murderer of children and anybody celebrating him as a hero is trampling on basic human decency," said Mark Regev, a spokesman for the Israeli prime minister (no relation to the soldier).

Goldwasser's mother had high hopes for this morning's exchange. "My hope is that I will hold my son in my arms," Miki Goldwasser told ABC News Tuesday.

Israeli television showed people gathering outside the Regev home, lighting candles and praying.

"All of Israel will be uniting around the families, mourning together with the families," Regev told ABC News.

Shlomo Goldwasser, Ehud's father, told Israel Radio that the sight of the coffins was not easy to take. "It didn't come as much of a surprise," he said. "But coming face-to-face with reality is always tough."

The stark contrast in reactions is causing some Israelis to feel that the deal is unequal. "It's not fair," Yamima Attias, who lives just outside Jerusalem, told ABC News.

"They get to dance, to sing, to be happy in Lebanon. What did we get? Two black coffins."

Attias said that she sobbed this morning when she saw the footage of the coffins arriving at the border.

"The last two years have been terrible, we all were so sad and afraid," she said. "Then at the last minute, after all our hoping, they finally told us they were dead."

Since Israel requires three-year compulsory military service from all citizens when they turn 18, these "sons" of Israel could have been anyone's son. The two soldiers were captured on their mandatory reserve service, which all Israelis participate in yearly.

Regev said that today's deal demonstrates Israel's commitment to its soldiers at all costs. "Today's deal is not weakness, it is strength," he said. "Every Israeli serviceman knows that if he or she is ever held behind enemy lines, we as a society will do what needs to be done to get them back home."

This confidence seemed to be shared by Israelis. "I have confidence in the values of my nation, who put pressure on the government all this time to return the soldiers," 24-year-old student Mati Leiken told ABC News. "It's this link between the people and the government that makes the soldiers feel safe."

Chanie, an Orthodox woman from Jerusalem who did not wish to give her full name, said that she spent the last few years praying for the soldiers' rescue. She felt that today's deal was not worth the price.

"My own husband is in the army, [as are] the husbands of my friends. I believe in Israel, the country, the army," she said. "But there's a price for everything, and this one is too high."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=5385503&page=1

Just sick...

 

[No Limit]

I was shocked when I logged on yesterday and didn't see a post from you about this. You are slacking nemesis, step your game up.

 

[CptStern]

in the future they should exchange greeting cards or pleasantries or even presents ..nothing says I love you like a nice christmas card with a picture of baby jesus

seasons greetings and god bless

 

[Nemesis6]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/....jpg?x=400&y=266&sig=EFCW2TB6Bq1Atllf_euveA--

Yeah, that was a good idea... One for Kuntar while we're at it?

 

[Mr Stabby]

Why could they not have done this instead of that war they had.

 

[Nemesis6]

They needed a bargaining chip to get horrible person back. That's what the war was about - They wanted Samir Kuntar back. Kind of funny how a child killer is Lebanon's hero. Or sad, whichever is preferred.

By the way, the irony would be so absurdly bitter sweet if those are French peacekeepers in that photo.

 

[Mr Stabby]

Didn't Israel invade Lebanon to try and get them back? Instead of that war they could have had this exchange 2 years ago, when the soldiers were still alive.

 

[No Limit]

Didn't Israel invade Lebanon to try and get them back? Instead of that war they could have had this exchange 2 years ago, when the soldiers were still alive.

But at the time this was a great excuse for Israel to blow some shit up.

 

[CptStern]

Didn't Israel invade Lebanon to try and get them back? Instead of that war they could have had this exchange 2 years ago, when the soldiers were still alive.

they were dead

On July 16, 2008, the bodies of Goldwasser and Regev were returned to Israel in an Israeli-Hezbollah prisoner swap. An examination of the bodies determined that the two reservists were killed during the initial attack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehud_Goldwasser

They needed a bargaining chip to get horrible person back. That's what the war was about - They wanted Samir Kuntar back.

so they let isreal bomb the living shit out of lebanon, kill 1200 civilians and wound another 4000 just to get one person back? lol :rolling:

 

[Nemesis6]

so they let isreal bomb the living shit out of lebanon, kill 1200 civilians and wound another 4000 just to get one person back? lol

No, they killed and took the bodies of those Israeli soldiers, thinking they can get away with it and just go straight for a prisoner swap. Problem was, they didn't expect the cluster**** that would follow. I doubt any Israeli reprisals were expected, because as one Hizballah official said - They didn't expect Israel to react that strongly.
Much to the dismay of these people, however, some of the Arab media seems to have a basic common sense(when they're not publishing those Der Sturmer cartoons daily in their newspapers! ) -

An independent Lebanese Web site called Now Lebanon on Thursday published an editorial questioning whether the heavy price that Lebanon had paid during the second Lebanon war justified what Hizbullah eventually received from Israel.

Kuntar receives hero's welcome in Lebanon

Under the title, "Was is worth it?" the Web site published a list comparing the "net losses" and the "net gains" in the aftermath of the prisoner exchange between Israel and Hizbullah.

The only "net gains" it found were the release of Samir Kuntar and four Hizbullah men, in addition to the return of 199 bodies of Arabs.

However, it noted that the four Hizbullah men who were released together with Kuntar were "technically not a net gain as they were captured during the 2006 war."
RELATED

Referring to the war triggered by the abduction of two IDF soldiers, the Lebanese Web site pointed out the following "net losses": 1200 civilians dead - 400 of them under 13; 4400 civilians injured - 700 permanently; one million displaced from their homes; 125,000 housing units destroyed or damaged; 250 Hizbullah fighters killed; 80% of some southern villages destroyed; 38,850,951 sq.m. contaminated by cluster bombs; 188 wounded by cluster bombs - 67 of them children; 20 killed by left-over cluster bombs - five of them children; $5 billion in economic damages; $15b. in long-term costs to the economy; $64 million cleanup of 12,000 tons of oil; 91 bridges destroyed; Northern Ghajar reoccupied and the continuing brain drain of Lebanese.

Now Lebanon describes itself as an independent and non-sectarian Web site that includes members from all Lebanese political, ethnic, religious and socio-economic groups and persuasions.

Another article published Thursday on the same site mocked Hizbullah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah's declaration that Lebanon had become the "first Arab country in the Israeli-Arab struggle to close its detainee file." The article pointed out that many Lebanese continue to languish in Syrian jails.

"The exact number of prisoners and detainees [in Syrian prisons] is not known and Syrian authorities have a history of keeping silent on the issue," the article said.

While Hizbullah on Wednesday went to great lengths in its attempts to paint the prisoner swap with Israel as a victory, emphasizing the fact that Nasrallah had kept to his word and managed to release murderer Samir Kuntar, a leading Arab paper ridiculed the perceived "victory."

"The Radwan deal," the headline of the London-based pan-Arabic daily Asharq Al Awsat cynically ran on Thursday, "cost Hizbullah over $7 billion, more than 1,200 dead and 4,500 wounded Lebanese citizens." The paper referred to the exchange by the name given it by Hizbullah.

Radwan was the nom de guerre of Imad Mughniyeh, the Hizbullah terror mastermind killed several months ago in a car bombing in Syria.

In Lebanon, Al Anwar carried an editorial piece which said it was "shameful to see members of the government in Beirut join the celebrations of Hizbullah."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1215331004306&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

I think the best part is how the good little Dhimmi Prime Minister of Lebanon Fuad Saniora is gonna meet with this guy and supports the idolization of him, etc. But then again, he doesn't have much time left, so it's all about appeasing Hizballah and all that bullshit that threatens the government. Oh well, geopolitics... or geomorality, rather.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Nice to see someone's deflating the fucks who are revelling in their idiocy. But slightly weird to blame Hezbollah for a war they did not ultimately cause.
Weirder still to see Israel releasing such people. It hardly seems worth it.

"They get to dance, to sing, to be happy in Lebanon. What did we get? Two black coffins."

"They get to fly their planes and feel their balls are big. What did we get? 1200 dead civilians."

 

[Kula Meenur]

"They get to fly their planes and feel their balls are big. What did we get? 1200 dead civilians."

"They get to warn Palestinian civilans about impending military strikes on a Hezbollah HQ in the local area. Then they get to deliberately attack the same Palestinian civilians on the street three days prior to the planned strike on the Hezbollah HQ. What did we get? Over 100 dead and horribly disfigured children, slain aid workers, dead and mutilated women, two ambulances deliberately targeted by military attack helicopters; and not a Hezbollah soldier in sight."

^Also using USMC weapons and ordnance.

 

[CptStern]

dont forget 4 UN observers including a canadian, an austrian, a finlander and an observer from china


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14029827/

 

[No Limit]

dont forget 4 UN observers including a canadian, an austrian, a finlander and an observer from china


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14029827/

So what that Israel bombed a clearly marked UN peace keeping post, jeeze, that was like 2 years ago, get over it already. What next? You gonna start bring up all those ambulances that they bombed for no apparent reason? Or that one building they bombed with all those women and children in it? Like nemesis said, they needed to make a point to those animals no matter how many innocent people got in the way.

 

[CptStern]

So what that Israel bombed a clearly marked UN peace keeping post, jeeze, that was like 2 years ago, get over it already. What next? You gonna start bring up all those ambulances that they bombed for no apparent reason? Or that one building they bombed with all those women and children in it? Like nemesis said, they needed to make a point to those animals no matter how many innocent people got in the way.

"We're going to kill you no matter how many innocent civilans we need to kill to get to you, because you kill innocent civilians and that cannot go unpunished ....Shlomo, shut up I know we're being hypocrites but our propaganda is better than theirs, no one will believe we're the terrorists .....besides we control hollywood"

 

[Nemesis6]

So what that Israel bombed a clearly marked UN peace keeping post, jeeze, that was like 2 years ago, get over it already. What next? You gonna start bring up all those ambulances that they bombed for no apparent reason? Or that one building they bombed with all those women and children in it? Like nemesis said, they needed to make a point to those animals no matter how many innocent people got in the way.

First of all, don't know if you kept up with the story, but apparently, according to one of the observers, the base was being used as a rocket launching site: http://sweetness-light.com/archive/email-from-un-post-claims-used-as-human-shields

In light of that, the context of this picture is explained: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/rednecktexan/UN-hizballah-flags-UN-post--large-m.jpg

The point: Israel is clearly not the only one to blame.

Second, I'll give you that: No reason to bring up ambulances at all. Of course not: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Palestinians+ambulance&btnG=Google+Search

Yeah, it's terrible when ambulances are held up or targeted, but don't pretend there's not a reason for it happening. And just to avoid the usual blah blah blah on this specific topic - Unfortunately, they like to use them to carry Qassams, weapons, gunmen, etc.

The point, again - Israel is not the only one to blame here, either. But it's easier as Stern proves with his little hypotheticals where Jews run hollywood, ignoring the fact that this claim can only be made by Scietology.

Now for something very strange: The nice head-bashing(read up on him) man is envy of the Zionists:

"I'm jealous of the Zionists, who don't spare any effort in bringing back captured soldiers or soldiers' bodies," convicted killer Samir Kuntar, who was released Wednesday in Israel's prisoner swap with Hizbullah, told the group's Al Manar TV on Thursday night.

"Seriously, we are jealous of our enemy and its care for a [body] and how it goes to the end of the world in order to return it, and of its concerns for captives and how it will go to the very edge to bring them back," he said.

Kuntar blasted Arab nations for not doing enough in the years of conflict with Israel to help the Palestinian cause and slammed them for sufficing with solidarity gestures alone.

The convicted murderer attacked late Egyptian president Anwar Sadat, saying he reaching a peace deal with Israel over the return of Sinai at the Palestinians' expense.

In the interview, Kuntar displayed an apparent wide knowledge of Israel and its methods of operation, particularly in the intelligence field.

In 1979, Kuntar and three other members of Abu Abbas's Palestine Liberation Front entered a Nahariya apartment building where they took Danny Haran, 28, and his four-year-old daughter, Einat, hostage. As police arrived on the scene, the terrorists pulled Danny and Einat down to the beach, where Kuntar shot Danny dead and crushed Einat's head on the rocks with the butt of his rifle, killing her.

Two of Kuntar's men were killed during a shootout on the beach with police, while Kuntar and Ahmed Abrass were captured. Abrass was released in the May 1985 Ahmed Jibril prisoner exchange deal.
Kuntrar denied killing Einat saying it was invented by Israel.

Kuntar told Al Manar that he and the terror cell had sought to take a hostage from the house and found Danny holding Einat.

Kuntar said that Danny insisted on holding onto his daughter and had he not done so, the terrorists would have kidnapped him and taken him to Lebanon. Kuntar maintained that Einat was killed by Israeli fire.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1215331016464&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

By the way, there's a nice picture of him in the article, just waiting to be rationalized and contextualized.

 

[CptStern]

First of all, don't know if you kept up with the story, but apparently, according to one of the observers, the base was being used as a rocket launching site: http://sweetness-light.com/archive/email-from-un-post-claims-used-as-human-shields

yet despite the fact they warned israel on several occasions

Israel came under mounting pressure last night to explain why its military ignored repeated warnings and bombed a prominent UN post in southern Lebanon, killing four unarmed international observers.

The four UN soldiers, from China, Austria, Finland and Canada, were taking shelter in a bunker at the white, three-storey building in Khiyam on Tuesday after at least six hours of Israeli bombing and shelling, when it was destroyed by what UN sources say was a precision-guided aerial bomb.

The UN contacted Israeli forces up to 10 times about the strikes. The UN's deputy general secretary, Mark Malloch Brown, made several calls to the Israelis to protest at the shelling and to call for it to stop, he told the security council yesterday.

In response, Israel reportedly promised to halt the firing. An Irish army officer warned the Israelis six times.

despite the fact that it's been in the same spot for over 30 years

The position at Khiyam was established in 1972

you'll justify anything nemesis so long as it suits your agenda ..from acts of terrorism to bombing unarmed foreign observers to the killing of children.

 

[No Limit]

First of all, don't know if you kept up with the story, but apparently, according to one of the observers, the base was being used as a rocket launching site: http://sweetness-light.com/archive/e...-human-shields

Except that Israel was notified well in advance that this was a UN peacekeeping post and they had no right to bomb it. Not only that but during the 6 hours of Israel bombing this location the peacekeepers called Israel military numerous times telling them to stop the attacks, Israel even assured them these attacks would stop. yet they never did and these innocent unarmed peace keepers were killed as a result. Not that you care, innocent people dying is okay in your eyes as long as those innocent people aren't jewish.

Yeah, it's terrible when ambulances are held up or targeted, but don't pretend there's not a reason for it happening. And just to avoid the usual blah blah blah on this specific topic - Unfortunately, they like to use them to carry Qassams, weapons, gunmen, etc.

Bombing ambulances is against international law. Period. you can come up with whatever idiotic excuse you want, it doesn't make it legal. Not to mention Israel has not conducted any investigation in to why these ambulances were bombed. Why not?

 

[Nemesis6]

blah blah blah

Yeah, they didn't respond. I can't explain that, and I'm not gonna try to, but how long the outpost has been there has **** to do with what happened. Also, one tiny detail: I never justified anything. I respond with proof that Israel isn't the only one to blame, and your petty delusional mind interprets that as me justifying what happened, just like me-too above does. The same thing happened in Qana, all over Yugoslavia, and you're stuck in this mindset that Israel is totally to blame for this. I don't get that.

Now about trolling - Yeah, and you flat out support censorship. You know what I'm referring to. Why don't we stop this right now? The blame game doesn't lead anywhere useful, but again, you know that and you're just trying to derail.

 

[CptStern]

Yeah, they didn't respond.

they didnt respond? they talked to Israeli commanders and were assured they'd stop firing omn their position

I can't explain that, but how long the outpost has been there has **** to do with what happened.

earth to mentally challenged guy ..they've known about that postion for 30 years, there's no mistaking it for a militant stronghold

Also, one tiny detail: I never justified anything. I respond with proof that Israel isn't the only one to blame, and your petty delusional mind interprets that as me justifying what happened.

you are shifting blame by saying

First of all, don't know if you kept up with the story, but apparently, according to one of the observers, the base was being used as a rocket launching site: http://sweetness-light.com/archive/e...-human-shields

In light of that, the context of this picture is explained: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...t--large-m.jpg

The point: Israel is clearly not the only one to blame.

here's a an example even your mind might be able to grasp:

I hate McDonalds, I decide to go my local McDonalds and kill every mother****er in the room with an assault rifle and piano wire ..clearly I'm not the only one to blame. McDonalds is also to blame because they caused me to hate them

this is essentially your argument

Now about trolling - Yeah, and you flat out support censorship. You know what I'm referring to. Why don't we stop this right now? The blame game doesn't lead anywhere useful, but again, you know that and you're just trying to derail.

I support censorship? no, you're just too slow witted to understand it wasnt a censorship issue BECAUSE THEY DIDNT CENSOR ANYTHING ..even though I've told you this several times, even though I've proved my point by showing you how that cartoon was printed in another newspaper YOU STILL DONT GET IT ..seriously I dont know how else to explain the situation that will work around your ingrained bias and prejudice ..even if Levant himself said "he's right, they did allow it to be printed in other newspapers, you'd still continue to stubbornly complain about censorship where none exists

this is why I hate debating you ..you're too thick headed to take any information that wasnt spoonfed to you by whatever pro-zionist propaganda machine you subscribe to. Simply nothing gets through that wall of denial you've built for yourself

 

[Absinthe]

Hey, let's all hate Israel.

Bomb Lebanon more.

 

[Nemesis6]

they didnt respond? they talked to Israeli commanders and were assured they'd stop firing omn their position

This is what I can find on that subject: http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/09/14/israel-report.html

earth to mentally challenged guy ..they've known about that postion for 30 years, there's no mistaking it for a militant stronghold

First off, **** off. Second, the Israeli report above says that they did stop, but that it was the airforce that failed. Don't know if any of it is true, but that's their account.

you are shifting blame by saying

I'm not shifting blame, I know Israel is to blame for it so spare me your anecdotes, please.

I support censorship? no, you're just too slow witted to understand it wasnt a censorship issue BECAUSE THEY DIDNT CENSOR ANYTHING ..even though I've told you this several times, even though I've proved my point by showing you how that cartoon was printed in another newspaper YOU STILL DONT GET IT ..seriously I dont know how else to explain the situation that will work around your ingrained bias and prejudice ..even if Levant himself said "he's right, they did allow it to be printed in other newspapers, you'd still continue to stubbornly complain about censorship where none exists

Of course they didn't get to censor it, the complaint came afterwards(after the Imam tried to get him arrested severel times), and at that point... Anyway, you wholeheartedly supported putting Ezral through this kangeroo court it seems. I believe what you said was this: "he does NOT have the right to free speech if it infringes on the rights of others :". of course you'd be hard-pressed if you were ever asked how that constituted violating someone's else's rights, unless of course you think not being offended by a cartoon of a religious figure is a human right. Yes, there was no censorship, because the thought police failed; Andreachuk and her cronies failed. You say I support killing innocent people by misconstruing my words, but God forbid I hit back with actual proof of you being a fascist yourself.

 

[No Limit]

This is what I can find on that subject: http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/nation...el-report.html

They asked Israel to stop bombing the position 10 different times. Israel continued to bomb them a total of 14 times in a matter of 6 hours. They can shift blame to whatever they want, they are pretty much a propogenda machine on the part of Israel. Apprantly you aren't smart enough to see through the bullshit and will continue to defend something that is down right disgusting.

 

[Nemesis6]

I still say Hizballah is to blame as much as the Israelis. The way I see it, if they hadn't used it to attack Israel from, the Israelis wouldn't have been shooting at that area. That's what I mean with this not being solely Israel's fault; not shifting the blame, as I said - It does lie with Israel, but Hizballah played a part, too, and they continued to operate this way throughout the war. The whole deal about ambulances is in the same courtyard as this debate, so apply the same argument to that if you will. Also, I have a question for you about the ambulances - Would you still talk about that highly valued international law if an ambulance was being used to transport fighters, weapons, etc? Or is it simply irrelevant?

 

[No Limit]

You are completely missing the point.

They were asked 10 times to stop bombing that area, during this time they attacked them 14 times in a matter of 6 hours. This was not a single attack on this post, this was a series of attacks after they knew what they were attacking was an unarmed UN post. Israel has some of the best special forces on the planet. They didn't need to drop 1,000 pound bombs to take out 17 hezbollah fighters.

Your ambulance argument is down right dumb, and I think you know this. What if some of those jews Hitler killed would have turned out to be rapists? Would your argument that the holocaust was a disgrace to the human race be any different as a result?

Let me ask you Nemesis, was there a single time in your history here that you have condamned any of Israel's military actions? Ever?

 

[CptStern]

I still say Hizballah is to blame as much as the Israelis. The way I see it, if they hadn't used it to attack Israel from, the Israelis wouldn't have been shooting at that area.

really and where were they hiding? in the trees?

http://www.jar2.com/cryptome***/1/Images/17/pict164.jpg

That's what I mean with this not being solely Israel's fault; not shifting the blame, as I said - It does lie with Israel, but Hizballah played a part, too, and they continued to operate this way throughout the war.

but I agree I dont blame israel ..I blame the UN building, it should have moved out of the way ..but it's kind of hard to get out of the way of this:

http://www.jar2.com/cryptome***/1/Images/17/pict151.jpg


but you're right I blame lebanon for allowing the UN to build an observatory so close to trees where known terrorists like to hang out in

http://www.jar2.com/cryptome***/1/Images/17/pict164.jpg

if you look closely you an see a few hanging in the topmost branches waiting to pounce should an unsuspecting israeli walk by


and finally I blame the UN for not clearly identifying their building

http://www.jar2.com/cryptome***/1/Images/17/pict166.jpg
http://www.jar2.com/cryptome***/1/Images/17/pict167.jpg

they should have put "not terrorists" instead of UN on their WHITE wallled building sitting in the open dotted with a few terrorist bearing trees. the nearest building being hundreds of yards away you can see how israel accidentily misfired their laser guided missles and bombs into their compound 14 times the final one hitting their BUNKER which was in a fortified area near the main building which they fled to after asking the israelis to stop which they didnt


here's the widow of the canadian killed in the day long bombardment of their clearly marked UN building that has been sitting in the same spot since 1972 and his son demanding ..

http://www.jar2.com/cryptome***/1/Images/17/pict158.jpg

..demanding to know why Israeli missiles struck the UN site where her husband was stationed as a military observer. Cynthia Hess-von Kruedener said that her husband had told her the U.N. site had been fired upon for weeks, even though its vehicles and buildings were clearly marked

I'm not getting in to the levant discussion again because from your comments above it's clear you didnt listen to a word I said last, you completely ignored every single point I made ..it's absolutely useless debating you because even when proven wrong you STILL subbornly refuse to admit it, it's like arguing with a child. the whole fascist accusation is a joke. it's predicated on the fact that you cannot for the life of you understand how rights tribunals work or even how the justice system works in it's most basic of principles. It's like trying to understand someone speaking in chinese if you dont understand chinese: you understand the emotional state of the speaker but not much else

 

[Nemesis6]

You are completely missing the point.

They were asked 10 times to stop bombing that area, during this time they attacked them 14 times in a matter of 6 hours. This was not a single attack on this post, this was a series of attacks after they knew what they were attacking was an unarmed UN post. Israel has some of the best special forces on the planet. They didn't need to drop 1,000 pound bombs to take out 17 hezbollah fighters.

Your ambulance argument is down right dumb, and I think you know this. What if some of those jews Hitler killed would have turned out to be rapists? Would your argument that the holocaust was a disgrace to the human race be any different as a result?

Let me ask you Nemesis, was there a single time in your history here that you have condamned any of Israel's military actions? Ever?

Well, I still don't know why they ignored the calls from the outpost, so yes I know it's not a single attack, and as I said, I don't know why they kept going either, that makes it all the more terrible. Anyway, historically, Israel has been very unreliable when it comes knowing how they'll respond to threats, you see them going into Ramallah with soldiers, or attacking with helicopters, so they don't seem to have a standardized policy on engagement based on what is reasonable and so on, unless they have a specific objective like capturing, so I'm not even gonna try understanding how or why they do what they do. If that's what you meant, that Israel didn't need to do it that long with so heavy ordinance, you're right.

Perhaps we're talking past each other, what I'm talking about is when an ambulance is targeted after it has been identified as being used specifically for one of those purposes - Only when it is identified as such, not as a general policy which you're talking about with the Hitler analogy. Now just to cast a wider net, assuming you're talking about holding ambulances back, etc - That is also wrong, but as I insinuated, there can be reasons for doing it, but still, I agree that the policy as a whole is harmful. Say if I didn't address something.

Now about condemning Israeli military actions, here's the thing: I do - I condemn the loss of life of these operations - That's why I'm against the airstrikes for example: They're just way too dangerous to use as a general deterrent against terrorism, and by any stretch of the imagination, there's no doubt it'll mostly end up having the opposite effect, killing innocent bystanders, encouraging more terror. You know about the ambulance pictures from Lebanon where they said Israel had struck those and everyone claimed they were fake due to a relatively small hole in the ceiling? Afterwards an HRW commission claimed that the damage was most likely due to a SPIKE missile, a missile with virtually no explosive capacity, designed for minimal collateral damage; until Israel starts using stuff like that as a general policy when dealing with high risk targets/targets in populated areas, I'll be against airstrikes. That's one answer. On to the next subject, something you mentioned earlier - The special forces. I don't see why Israel doesn't use them for operations instead of regular soldiers, that's another thing I condemn Israel for. They do indeed seem to have the best, so they should be using them and using their army to a lesser extent in combat operations. Again, say if I wasn't elaborate enough or missed a point.

 

[No Limit]

Nemesis, when did you become so reasonable?

If there was strong evidance that the ambulances they bombed were being used militarly then by all means I wouldn't be condamning them on this. The problem is if an ambulance gets bombed Israel should be proactive and completely transparant as to why those ambulances were bombed. I think you would agree with that. And I don't think they were open or transperent in this case nor do I think they were open and transparent in the UN bombing case.

I think what's important is for Israel not to over react in the way they did, there was no justification for killing that many innocent civilians over what happened. Like I said and as you know, Israel has some of the best special forces on this planet, they could have been a lot more effective and a lot less deadly if they used a litle more brains in what they did in 2006.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

"They get to fly their planes and feel their balls are big. What did we get? 1200 dead civilians."

And before that? Nothing.

There little border incursion costed them -- and they knew what they where doing.
They know how to poke Israel to get a response. Too bad Israel shows them which buttons to press.