Japanese aggression on Korean territory.

To whom does Dokdo belong to?

  • Total voters
    32
FFS, its two little rocks in the middle of the sea. Who cares?

Nationalism kills brain cells.
 
Its a symbol of our nation's complete sovereghty. Argh. CAn't spell.


It also gives us more sea-space.
 
gick said:
FFS, its two little rocks in the middle of the sea. Who cares?

Nationalism kills brain cells.
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I'm gonna take your stereo.

It's just your stereo.

Who cares?
 
15357 said:
Its a symbol of our nation complete sovereghty. Argh. CAn't spell.
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Are you willing to go to war over a ****ing symbol? Its a few rocks in the middle of nowhere, but oh no we have to stop johnny foreigner from getting his hands on it because that would somehow offend our made up- abstract ideas. Hooray!
 
Just because what you have isn't worth anything (which this is, to these people) doesn't give someone else the right to take it away.
 
gick said:
Are you willing to go to war over a ****ing symbol? Its a few rocks in the middle of nowhere, but oh no we have to stop johnny foreigner from getting his hands on it because that would somehow offend our made up- abstract ideas. Hooray!
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Yes we are. As I've said, we'll defend every single milimeter of Korean soil to the death.


Its kinda like the Briatin-Argentina war thing (Falklands)
 
Just because what you have isn't worth anything (which this is, to these people) doesn't give someone else the right to take it away.
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The Japanese wont take it away. They legally (and most likely physically) cannot, as military action of any kind is expressly forbidden in the Japanese constitution.

And what I said about it being a pointless symbol goes for the Japanese too. I doubt the public would be stupid enough to stand for military action.

Yes we are. As I've said, we'll defend every single milimeter of Korean soil to the death.


Its kinda like the Briatin-Argentina war thing (Falklands)
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I could understand that, as there were actually people living on those islands, and had the Argies won they would have been living under a military dictatorship. The only population of Dokdo are Korean military personnel.
 
Iraq..."military action of any kind is expressly forbidden in the Japanese constitution"..... does not compute...

Constitutions can be changed.
 
gick said:
Are you willing to go to war over a ****ing symbol? Its a few rocks in the middle of nowhere, but oh no we have to stop johnny foreigner from getting his hands on it because that would somehow offend our made up- abstract ideas. Hooray!
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Here's an abstract idea: FREEDOM. Humanity goes to war over that all the freaking time.
 
Jintor said:
Here's an abstract idea: FREEDOM. Humanity goes to war over that all the freaking time.
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Thats an abstract idea that actually means something. Not like nationalism - 'us here within these imaginary lines drawn in the ground are better than those people within those imaginary lines drawn in the ground!'


EDIT: As regards to the poll, I say they stay Korean, as it would be astoundingly stupid to go to war over this.
 
How dare they set their sights on a useless piece of rock in some god forsaken corner of the ocean?

your government should advance on them under the cover of darkness and slaughter the lot of them, spare no one. Burn their cities to the ground, rape the women and slaughter the children because they are less than human and deserve nothing but hate and destuction. After all, inanimate objects like rocks are FAR more important than human lives

Canada has very much the same dispute with Denmark as Korea and Japan ..here's the slab of rock in question

http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20050727/wxhans27/0727islandbig.jpg

if that isnt worth dying for I dont know what is ...personally I plan to take out at least half a dozen Danes before they get me. Sometimes you have to stand upagainst imperialism and slaughter as many of the other side as possible ...no matter how stupid the justification because it's your duty



http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/07/25/hansisland050725.html
 
I agree with numbers. The world political stage is a brutal one, and this isn't about a rock this is about not showing weakness. A country must defend every piece of it's territory. You give in one piece of land, it will be seen as a weakness, and it will only invite more trouble, and probably more conflicts.
 
The falklands war was silly as well, but less silly.
 
"You hate America, don't you?" she said.
"That would be as silly as loving it," I said. "It's impossible for me to get emotional about it, because real estate doesn't interest me. It's no doubt a great flaw in my personality, but I can't think in terms of boundaries. Those imaginary lines are as unreal to me as elves and pixies. I can't believe that they mark the end or the beginning of anything of real concern to the human soul. Virtues and vices, pleasures and pains cross boundaries at will."-Mother Night, Kurt Vonnegut

I think that quote applies to this. Replace America in their with any country of your choosing.
 
Grey Fox said:
I agree with numbers. The world political stage is a brutal one, and this isn't about a rock this is about not showing weakness. A country must defend every piece of it's territory. You give in one piece of land, it will be seen as a weakness, and it will only invite more trouble, and probably more conflicts.
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so Canada should invade Hans Island or perhaps Denmark itself?

for this?

http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20050727/wxhans27/0727islandbig.jpg

it's the same scenario


DeusExMachina said:
"You hate America, don't you?" she said.
"That would be as silly as loving it," I said. "It's impossible for me to get emotional about it, because real estate doesn't interest me. It's no doubt a great flaw in my personality, but I can't think in terms of boundaries. Those imaginary lines are as unreal to me as elves and pixies. I can't believe that they mark the end or the beginning of anything of real concern to the human soul. Virtues and vices, pleasures and pains cross boundaries at will."-Mother Night, Kurt Vonnegut

I think that quote applies to this. Replace America in their with any country of your choosing.
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excellent quote from one of my favourite authors
 
Hans island yes, denmark no.
What exactly are you suggesting then, letting countrues simply take your land without consequences. You think that will bring peace?
 
ummm ....negotiation, 3rd part mediation, comprimise, signed agreements, mutual understanding, happy day parades

and are you suggesting even a single canadian or danish life is worth that piece of rock?
 
Since they want the rock so much you could just trade it to them for something, I dunno, useful?
 
The fun thing with Hans Island is that both governments actually takes it seriously. Is a damn rock north-east of Greenland really worth it? Thing have calmed down now about, fortunately, but a couple of months ago the situation was almost comical. I suppose the same thing can be said about the Dokdo, even though I'm aware that the Danish-Canadian relations differ much from the Japanese-Korean relations.
 
The old-fashioned rule still applies - if someone claims ownership of something you say is yours, then you both fight for it and to the victor, the spoils. All of our countries were outlined by this method at some point. Some ancient documents saying OUR little fisherman guy found it 1 year before YOUR little fisherman guy means nothing and wont result in a convincing resolution. It's not 'finders keepers', it's 'keepers keepers'.

For the record I say it should go to Korea simply because they look most capable of claiming it. Japan is castrated by the consitutional restrictions on their 'self defence force' (lol). America might be happy to drag that army into Iraq but they're never going to let Japan use it for their own interests, especially one as mundane as this, since Japan is still one of America's many lapdogs.
 
CptStern said:
ummm ....negotiation, 3rd part mediation, comprimise, signed agreements, mutual understanding, happy day parades

and are you suggesting even a single canadian or danish life is worth that piece of rock?
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That has obviously failed since that island isn't in canadian hands yet.
So yeah military action is in order, giving a piece of land just sends the precendent for other countries to simply take your land. It's completly rediculus to simply rub this off as simply a piece of rock that isn't worth it. Giving in to agressors never, never prevents aggressions it just invites more.
 
Grey Fox said:
That has obviously failed since that island isn't in canadian hands yet.
So yeah military action is in order, giving a piece of land just sends the precendent for other countries to simply take your land. It's completly rediculus to simply rub this off as simply a piece of rock that isn't worth it. Giving in to agressors never, never prevents aggressions it just invites more.
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But both sides are the aggrressors. No country has the moral highground to lay claim to it. It's just a f***g rock, it's no-ones terrortory.
 
Grey Fox said:
That has obviously failed since that island isn't in canadian hands yet.
So yeah military action is in order, giving a piece of land just sends the precendent for other countries to simply take your land. It's completly rediculus to simply rub this off as simply a piece of rock that isn't worth it. Giving in to agressors never, never prevents aggressions it just invites more.
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so we should go to war? ..now it's not just one life at stake
 
Noone should go to war over this rock or get aggressive, but I do think that Japan should give it back, since it's a symbol of their wartime aggression.

This rock is just a side-issue excuse for the bigger issue of Japan not quite acknowledging its wartime attrocities, and continuing to honour WW2 war criminals - a lot of people all over Asia aren't too happy about those things.
 
From a link in the first post:
Japan's renewed claim to Dokdo follows the discovery of large hydrocarbon deposits around the island, and to the rising nationalism in Japan. In 2004 a 10-year, $225-million gas exploration project was started southwest of Dokdo by Korea Gas, a state company. Korea National Oil and Woodside Petroleum of Australia started oil and gas exploration in the summer of 2005 north of Dokdo.
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So its not an irrational pointless land grab, its energy-centric pragmatism dressed up to appeal to nationalism.
 
Yeah, that's what a lot of island disputes are about in that part of the world - and indeed any part of the world.
 
Tell your leaders to play rock-paper-scissors for it.

Ahem... It looks like the remote rocks out in the middle of nowhere are ROKorean, so I guess they should remain ROKorean. But perhaps the Japanese would be interested in buying them.

The rest of the world should probably be siding with ROKorea.
 
CptStern said:
so we should go to war? ..now it's not just one life at stake
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you din't anwser or counter anything i said in that post, you just repeated what you said earlier, something for which you allready know what my anwser is.
 
then we are at an impasse because you have yet to justify your assertation that that hunk of rock is worth dying for ..saying that nations need to be aggressive in the international stage says nothing and isnt even a realistic scenario ..we're both part of nato and the UN
 
"Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert" sums this up very nicely.
 
Whoever claims it, MacDonald's will be the first establishment there.
 
No justification, history provides me with enough justification. It has showns that pursuing peace at any cost has led to more aggression instead of less.
WW2 is major example of that. Giving in to agressors only leads to more agression this is true on the world stage as much as it is true on the street.

And as far as asserting agression, I only said that aggression sould be asserted against an agressor, which completly justifyble by internationa law. Every country has the right to defend it land and people.

What would you do, just let them have it, let the agressor win. What if more country start to chip of your country piece by piece, should you not attack them to. By your logic you should not only because every time it's a small insignificant piece, but also because you did not attack the first agressor, why threat other countries different.
And if you are both part of nato and the UN, why not enforce it's rules. It's clearly against threaties in the UN to take land that belongs to other countries.
 
The Monkey said:
You should've added the "Who cares?" option.
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Well, I thought it would be pointless, since you could just not vote

From a link in the first post:

Quote:
Japan's renewed claim to Dokdo follows the discovery of large hydrocarbon deposits around the island, and to the rising nationalism in Japan. In 2004 a 10-year, $225-million gas exploration project was started southwest of Dokdo by Korea Gas, a state company. Korea National Oil and Woodside Petroleum of Australia started oil and gas exploration in the summer of 2005 north of Dokdo.

So its not an irrational pointless land grab, its energy-centric pragmatism dressed up to appeal to nationalism..
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There is only a small probability that the deposits exist.

Tell your leaders to play rock-paper-scissors for it.

Ahem... It looks like the remote rocks out in the middle of nowhere are ROKorean, so I guess they should remain ROKorean. But perhaps the Japanese would be interested in buying them.

The rest of the world should probably be siding with ROKorea.
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If we ever sold it to them, the price would be Tokyo.
 
15357 said:
If we ever sold it to them, the price would be Tokyo.
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Guess the rocks are yours, then. I'll go tell Japan to get back to its corner and shush.
 
Numbers, you're a bit of an idiot.

Territory as meaningless as some rocks is not worth human lives. If they were actually going to threaten you, well, that'd be different. These are some rocks.
 
Well, If patriotism is being idiotic then idiotic I am......
 
Patriotism? For what, rocks nobody ever lived on?

Have you ever stopped to think that possibly getting concerned and angry about something this insignificant is how your government covers up actual problems your country is facing?
 
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