L4D2 Boycott

Seriously, who is stupid enough to support Valve with this bitch move they call left 4 Dead 2?
 
Good, that's 19,020 less idiots we will see playing L4D2. Sadly most of them will end up buying the game anyways.
 
People are quick to claim idiocy. I say, if people want to buy promised free DLC, let them.
 
SolidSteel144 said:
There are many reasons why L4D2 wouldn't work as DLC, it would be better off as a expansion.
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Yes, it would be better off as an expansion as opposed to a "full blown sequel".

What are all these reasons why L4D2 would not work as DLC? It sounds to me exactly what doug lombardi promised at E3...


"More weapons, more movies, more characters" etc etc....
 
Doug said it himself. They were discussing what to do for DLC and they decided they needed to make a sequel to fit it all in rather than heavily modifying the current gameplay. Valve's not just trying to make as much money as possible, they're opting to give us more with a sequel than they would have been able to otherwise with DLC.
 
95% of these "boycotters" will go out and buy it anyway.
 
I love how some people are taking this number of members so seriously, anyone can join this group, most of them dont give a toss about L4D let alone any of the reasons they list, they are just reactionary brats that signed up to steam twelve times just to join up and pour gas on the flames for old tired reasons.

Thats not to say some people arnt shocked by the announcement, but I really have to question why people would buy a game expecting magical DLC to appear later on, nothing was ever promised, it was suggested, there is a massive difference. People really need to look at facts and not the chinese whisper ramblings on well presented but badly run gaming news sites.
 
When this game comes out this group'll have 500 members left :/
 
Or their bad molotov throwing!
 
Must buy L4D2, it will enrich my life so much more by training me to fight even more zombies, except this time with moar fire and axes. But srsly it looks really well made, the only gripe I have is the full price tag, most of the core is essentially a rehash.
 
Ok, even I don't approve of L4D 2 so far, as i've made it increasingly obvious before, it looks like they've just reskinned everything, and for the Charger put the Tank on a diet. But honestly, what morons. Feel free to bitch and moan about an upcoming game, i personally do. But Valve isn't going to just drop everything because these people got their panties in a bunch.
 
"Valve's VP of Marketing Doug Lombardi reacted to the news in an interview late last week, telling RockPaperShotgun, 'There's more content coming for Left 4 Dead in the fairly near term, that I think will sort of add to this picture and hopefully change some people's opinions of what's happening right now."
 
So many idiots, so little time. It's of interest to me that so many actually believe the numbers of this 'boycott group' mean something. Let's take our very own Gorgon as an example of the ignorant and uninformed:

Gorgon said:
13,074 Members in L4D2 Boycott.

13074 * $50 = $650,000 that's some serious money.
Click to expand...

Do we really think even half of those people will not purchase L4D2? Please - it's a Steam Group. A simple "click here to join" is all it takes in the heat of the moment; maybe they were annoyed with the announcement of L4D2, but that's far from them being Steampowered moronic zealots - chances are, they are going to buy the game, and lose interest in why they were annoyed in the first place. Or maybe, y'know - maybe, a few of them joined just because.

It's not something to be taken seriously, and the only significant factor we can take from it is thus: we have empirical evidence of 13074 complete morons.
 
I joined the (poorly) named L4D2 Boycott because I believe their mission statement.

Will I buy Left 4 Dead 2? Absolutely. Will I pay $50 for it? No. I'll wait until I think it's priced at what it should have been: about twenty bucks (however long that might take). I am not some raving fanboy who will go and purchase every Valve product no matter the situation. And I won't hold this against the company as a whole. For instance, I wouldn't not (Pardon the double neg) buy Episode 3 because I don't like their business practices with L4D2.

I understand that the vast majority of people are going to be completely thrilled with L4D2, and that's fine with me. Go enjoy it. I just can't help but feel let down.

And on an obviously theoretical note, what if Valve announces L4D3 a year from now, with a bunch of hooplah about how they "... couldn't do everything they wanted..." in L4D2? It's set in London and has four new characters, a different set of extremely similar weapons (what essentially amounts to new models and sounds), one new boss infected, and a few "awesome" gameplay enhancements like ACID AMMO!!!! Would you shell out 50 again?

What about the one after that, set in Russia, running around Moscow. Lvl 2 AR is the AK, dragunov the rifle.... there is a one new boss infected, and this time ICE AMMO!!!!! 50 bucks!



Come on....
 
Yes, eventually all this "anger" will die off and like how others mentioned they will buy the game anyways.
Haha, ice ammo.
 
Top Secret said:
I understand that the vast majority of people are going to be completely thrilled with L4D2, and that's fine with me. Go enjoy it. I just can't help but feel let down.
Click to expand...

Let down by what?

The game is several months from finishing and let's not forget it's Valve, so who knows if it even will come out on time (that isn't a dig at them, by the way. I don't mind Valve Time) but until then I can almost assure you there will be changes, there will be modifications, there will be more to see and there will be more reasons for why the game is being developed as a sequel, we just haven't had time to see them yet. We've seen one press release so far and it astounds me that people are so quick to turn their head. This is precisely the problem with this group and people in the mentality to ignore the game - they're being far to quick to judge.
 
Gorgon said:
13,074 Members in L4D2 Boycott.

13074 * $50 = $650,000 that's some serious money.
Click to expand...

Since most people in the boycott say they are going to wait until L4D2 is in the $20 range. This chart needs to be fixed.

I need to take your $650,000 figure and subtract out all these boycotters that will actually buy the game @ $20.

13,074 Members in L4D2 Boycott.

13074 * $20 = $261,500.

650,000 - 261,500 = $388,500 missed revenue by Valve.
 
TheAntipop said:
Let down by what?
Click to expand...

I am let down by the lack of support for L4D1. And for the (very) late and unfinished SDK. Is this really what you wanted Left 4 Dead 2 to be? The same game with a content pack? I am not saying Left 4 Dead 2 should be as vast an upgrade that Half-Life 2 was to Half-Life 1, but the gameplay looks exactly the same. I feel like I have played it already. Left 4 Dead is seven months old for ****s sake. Watch the high def videos of people playing the game.

We've seen one press release so far and it astounds me that people are so quick to turn their head.
Click to expand...

Don't kid yourself. It was WAY more than a press release. There was a playable demo at E3.

alehm said:
Since most people in the boycott say they are going to wait until L4D2 is in the $20 range. This chart needs to be fixed.
Click to expand...

It's nice to know that I am most people.
 
Top Secret said:
I am let down by the lack of support for L4D1. And for the (very) late and unfinished SDK. Is this really what you wanted Left 4 Dead 2 to be? The same game with a content pack? I am not saying Left 4 Dead 2 should be as vast an upgrade that Half-Life 2 was to Half-Life 1, but the gameplay looks exactly the same. I feel like I have played it already. Left 4 Dead is seven months old for ****s sake. Watch the high def videos of people playing the game.

Don't kid yourself. It was WAY more than a press release. There was a playable demo at E3.
Click to expand...

I can dig what you're saying, it's fair enough as a concern but goddamnit if it doesn't make my head throb when you people say it looks like this, it looks like that but yet they haven't actually played it. You're prepared to turn a blind eye when you haven't even played it. Yes, we saw a demo at E3. Guess what? It isn't the entire game. The game still has several months til release and in that time frame, I imagine alot will happen regarding changes. It's Valve - it's how they work. I'm willing to bet my hat it won't come out on schedule anyway.

It also annoys me when people blatently ignore what the makers of the actual game are saying. You are bleating on about it being nothing more than ''extra content'' based upon a small glimpse of an in-production game and shit, when Valve say it's going to be so much more than something DLC related why isn't anybody listening? I think they, of all people, know what's going to be able to go into DLC and what is going to warrent another game.
 
TheAntipop said:
I can dig what you're saying, it's fair enough as a concern but goddamnit if it doesn't make my head throb when you people say it looks like this, it looks like that but yet they haven't actually played it.
Click to expand...

I have played it. It's called Left 4 Dead.

TheAntipop said:
You're prepared to turn a blind eye when you haven't even played it. Yes, we saw a demo at E3. Guess what? It isn't the entire game.
Click to expand...

You're right, it wasn't the entire game. But neither is a demo the entire game. It's meant to demonstrate the game. They wouldn't put up a playable demo and walk around saying "Oh, by the way the final product will be nothing like this."



TheAntipop said:
The game still has several months til release and in that time frame, I imagine alot will happen regarding changes.
Click to expand...


No doubt to anything you said here.

TheAntipop said:
It's Valve - it's how they work.
Click to expand...

No, it's not! That's part of the concern!



TheAntipop said:
It also annoys me when people blatently ignore what the makers of the actual game are saying. You are bleating on about it being nothing more than ''extra content'' based upon a small glimpse of an in-production game and shit, when Valve say it's going to be so much more than something DLC related why isn't anybody listening? I think they, of all people, know what's going to be able to go into DLC and what is going to warrant another game.
Click to expand...

Why would I not question what they are saying? They are deviating from the norm. Also, just because Valve can dictate the decision if something is DLC or full product material, does not automatically mean that they are the best of judges or that they will even make the correct assumption.


You seem to have a lot of faith in Valve, and that's great. Companies like them can be trusted to get it right 95% of the time. But every once in a while you hit that 1/20 chance.
 
Top Secret said:
I have played it. It's called Left 4 Dead.
Click to expand...

And now we're just rotating in circles. You're completly ignoring how silly it is to claim the game is going to be exactly the same as L4D when you haven't seen nor heard everything there is to offer.

You're right, it wasn't the entire game. But neither is a demo the entire game. It's meant to demonstrate the game. They wouldn't put up a playable demo and walk around saying "Oh, by the way the final product will be nothing like this."
Click to expand...

Playable demo, playable beta. That particular level was a representable state, so they showcased it. There will be more to say, things will change, things will be different. You say there is no doubt to anything I said about things changing over time so what's the confusion? The game will obviously be like what the playable copy was like with the core mechanics, it's just I guarantee alot will change. Next month they might show us the same level but with a **** ton of new stuff, or they might just of changed the sound the frying pan makes upon impact with a skull. Who knows?

No, it's not! That's part of the concern!
Click to expand...

Hm? How is concepting and development not a big part of Valves work? Have you ever read Raising the Bar, or taken alook at the TF2 and L4D blogs? Alot of changes went on during production.

[/quote]Why would I not question what they are saying? They are deviating from the norm. Also, just because Valve can dictate the decision if something is DLC or full product material, does not automatically mean that they are the best of judges or that they will even make the correct assumption.[/quote]

Err, yeah, I think they can actually. If they can't get what they wanted into L4D, it's obviously something big. What we know so far might not seem like much to some, but with the game still a few months out, I'm pretty sure more is coming.

We're going in circles here, all I'm saying is I think it's pretty silly to go shouting out assumed facts about the game so early.
 
I for one am probably going to buy it regardless, but I cannot agree that the release of sequel is far too soon in the nature that we know as valve.

I just hope it doesnt ruin valves reputation
 
TheAntipop said:
And now we're just rotating in circles. You're completly ignoring how silly it is to claim the game is going to be exactly the same as L4D when you haven't seen nor heard everything there is to offer.
Click to expand...


And yet you sit here and claim that the game will be worth it when you haven't seen nor heard everything there is to offer. We both know this is speculation, but the fact is Valve put out a playable demonstration of the game.



TheAntipop said:
Playable demo, playable beta. That particular level was a representable state, so they showcased it. There will be more to say, things will change, things will be different. You say there is no doubt to anything I said about things changing over time so what's the confusion? The game will obviously be like what the playable copy was like with the core mechanics, it's just I guarantee alot will change. Next month they might show us the same level but with a **** ton of new stuff, or they might just of changed the sound the frying pan makes upon impact with a skull. Who knows?
Click to expand...

Right, who knows? I am going off of what they displayed to us. Was the sound of the frying pan extremely annoying after the 500th time? Certainly. Will they fix it? I am sure. But that's not what has me worried. The game play is still the same. It isn't L4D2. It's L4D1.5.

I mean, for ****s sake, they even said the SDK would be compatible between both games. O_O


TheAntipop said:
Hm? How is concepting and development not a big part of Valves work? Have you ever read Raising the Bar, or taken alook at the TF2 and L4D blogs? Alot of changes went on during production.
Click to expand...

Of course there were. After that much time, significant changes are bound to happen. Just how long did it take to develop TF2? Years. Years and years and years. Valve stated that they began production of L4D2 in January - and that their "Planned" release (Valve time, I know I know) is November. That's ten months. Ten months to build Left 4 Dead TWO. The NFL Madden series has a slower turn around! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madden_NFL


TheAntipop said:
Err, yeah, I think they can actually. If they can't get what they wanted into L4D, it's obviously something big. What we know so far might not seem like much to some, but with the game still a few months out, I'm pretty sure more is coming.
Click to expand...

They can get what they want into L4D with Steam. The engine can be updated, the AID updated, levels modified, weapons changed - don't kid yourself.

TheAntipop said:
We're going in circles here, all I'm saying is I think it's pretty silly to go shouting out assumed facts about the game so early.
Click to expand...

Again, I'm not "assuming" anything. I am going off of the demonstration Valve displayed. That is where my critique lays. Given a November release date, I simply cannot fathom the game changing significantly enough to be a full blown VALVE sequel. Why is that so hard to understand? I am not saying the game will be bad.

If the game gets turned into an expansion (it won't) then great. I think that's what this content should be. If it goes into Valve Time (more likely) and hibernates for three years then that would be great too. :O
 
Top Secret said:
And yet you sit here and claim that the game will be worth it when you haven't seen nor heard everything there is to offer. We both know this is speculation, but the fact is Valve put out a playable demonstration of the game.
Click to expand...

No, I'm merely looking forward to the game. I'm keeping an open mind towards what is to come, I'm not saying here nor there on what there is going to be and what there is not, only going off of past Valve developments to presume how the next few months will pan out. Valve said it's going to be different, that it's going to be worth a sequel title, and I believe that. They've never let me down for games so I'm inclined to let them have their say and see what they do with it. I'm at least going to wait for another two or three updates of information and videos before I start getting either really hyped or really upset about how it's looking. Right now, I'm liking the direction.

Right, who knows? I am going off of what they displayed to us. Was the sound of the frying pan extremely annoying after the 500th time? Certainly. Will they fix it? I am sure. But that's not what has me worried. The game play is still the same. It isn't L4D2. It's L4D1.5.
Click to expand...

This is where the parts we've had spoon fed to us at E3 don't connect with what Valve are saying - maybe you are just ignoring things that have been mentioned, like new environmental AI director, weather and atmosphere changing, new enemies that only one has been shown of (Charger) but others that have been talked about and I think here lies the problem. Alot of people have seen the gameplay videos because the majority just would probably rather watch then read, but they don't show alot. They don't show alot because it's still being made, whereas podcasts, interviews and previews all go into detail about quite a bit more.

Of course there were. After that much time, significant changes are bound to happen. Just how long did it take to develop TF2? Years. Years and years and years. Valve stated that they began production of L4D2 in January - and that their "Planned" release (Valve time, I know I know) is November. That's ten months. Ten months to build Left 4 Dead TWO. The NFL Madden series has a slower turn around! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madden_NFL

I dunno really, you're right in that I do have alot of trust in Valve so I'm alright with the years lenght for a release. They're good at making games, I guess. I'm not prepared to say much else on the matter as I'm awaiting for more of the game to be shown. If this kind of footage was shown as the very final showcase a few weeks before it's release then I'd be right there with you going against it. Fact is, we ain't.

They can get what they want into L4D with Steam. The engine can be updated, the AID updated, levels modified, weapons changed - don't kid yourself.
Click to expand...

Obviously not. Nnnnhghg. If they say it can't be done, if they have decided NOT to, and they have said a good number of times now they can't, then why do people keep claiming it can? What you have seen so far may look like it can be thrown in through Steam, like the new weapon or two, or environments, but man, just listen: we haven't seen everything yet. You've agreed with me like twice on this already so why do you keep playing ignorant to that there is more to come that obviously cannot be added in through Steam?
Click to expand...
Again, I'm not "assuming" anything. I am going off of the demonstration Valve displayed. That is where my critique lays. Given a November release date, I simply cannot fathom the game changing significantly enough to be a full blown VALVE sequel. Why is that so hard to understand? I am not saying the game will be bad.
[/QUOTE]

I went into this argument upon seeing that you said you were going to boycott this game and that you believe in the ''mission statement'' of the group. That sounds like you think the game will be bad to me. I guess I'm wrong and I apologise, but my above points still stand - I still think you're throwing out way to many it's that, it's this and it will be like this for my liking. I'm just gonna roll with the updates and see what's what.
 
Fair enough. :p

But just to make something clear, everything in L4D2 can be put into L4D. Everything. It's non-disputable. The entirety of L4D was put onto steam. As will L4D2. I don't comprehend how people can think that it can't be done.

Fans have updated the original Half-Life 2 version of source to the Orange Box version. It can be done.

It's just easier to throw it into a box and slap a price tag onto. (Which I don't have a problem with, just the price.)

Time will tell.
 
Top Secret said:
Fair enough. :p

But just to make something clear, everything in L4D2 can be put into L4D. Everything. It's non-disputable. The entirety of L4D was put onto steam. As will L4D2. I don't comprehend how people can think that it can't be done.
Click to expand...

I'm no game developer, or modder, etc, so I'm fairly ignorant to the subject. If Valve say that what they are doing with L4D2 is fully deserved of a sequel then I'm going to take their word for it. They know best and I don't think non-disputable is the right word to use considering we could be talking about something unheard of in the works, something new Valve have been cooking up that in actual fact cannot be put straight in L4D. Again, I'm no coder or programmer and there might not be anything special at all, but I'm gonna give 'em the time to see where they go with it.
 
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23911

Valve not committing to any new L4D1 content:

Leonard declined to commit to there being more Valve-created content for the game, instead pointing out some upcoming functionality tweaks and the potential in user-created levels for the PC version. "We are doing updates across the summer, adding new matchmaking features, and new features to facilitate user maps after the SDK is out," he said. "Certainly, user maps will be part of the ongoing Left 4 Dead 1 experience."
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:
 
Top Secret said:
But just to make something clear, everything in L4D2 can be put into L4D. Everything. It's non-disputable. The entirety of L4D was put onto steam. As will L4D2. I don't comprehend how people can think that it can't be done.
Click to expand...

Easily done on the PC because file sizes dont matter, but virtually impossible to release a patch of multiple gigs on the 360, the GTA4 episode is the largest DLC there has been for a game, and it only took up a gig, but from a technical standpoint it reused most of it from the original game, much like TF2 does, but you couldnt get away with that for L4D because people would complain its nothing new.
 
Lobster said:
but you couldnt get away with that for L4D because people would complain its nothing new.
Click to expand...


Wut??

Although I understand that it will be far more difficult on a Console -> that's why you buy the PC version. >.<
 
Top Secret said:
Wut??

Although I understand that it will be far more difficult on a Console -> that's why you buy the PC version. >.<
Click to expand...

You can't simply debunk a problem with personal opinion, sadly. If it's difficult for the console and you understand that, that's all there is to it.
 
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