maps can be 16X bigger?

[Punisher454]

Somebody posted a message that claimed that new maps can be 16X larger. I dont doubt this, but I'm curious about the source of the info. I looked around and couldnt find anything else about it.
Anybody know this one?
And I wonder, is that 16X larger in total volume, or does the maximum number of map units go 4X more in each direction?

 

[Xtasy0]

official HL2 / Source MOD FAQ http://collective.valve-erc.com/index.php?go=source_mod_faq#eng_02

What is the maximum map size for Half-Life 2?

The maximum map size is currently set at +/-16384 (16x the lateral space of Half-Life 1, 64x overall space). It will take several minutes to cross the map in a vehicle.

 

[High Poly]

Yeah that is so cool!! U can build whole city´s or even a whole state!

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

A whole state? Maybe thats a bit over board.

 

[Dave]

It's brilliant. I wonder how much detail we can now put in to the maps?

I wonder what restrictions there are if you do use the entire map size.. Would the overall detail level be lowered?

From the looks of things like this, the overall level of detail appears to have been raised. Curved edges everywhere, window-sills jutting out, cables littering the sky. I wonder if this level of detail would be available to use frequently throughout a maximum sized map?

 

[Iced_Eagle]

wow.... one huge map with extreme detaill btw Dave the LOD system will raise/lower the detail depending on distance so no performance can be lost by ammount of detail i want the SDK!

 

[TheMistake]

w00t!

 

[cyborgguineapig]

I bet 16X is what Valve tells us but as with Hl1, rules can always broken with time

Take for example HL1, Sections of maps were quite short and level switching was very constant because at teh time people didn't have the computers we have today.

The MOD NS or Natural Selection has pretty large maps and supposedly they reworked the hull map sysem to increase performance while still having quite large maps.

Whats to say someone can't increase this cement number of 16X?

 

[Draklyne]

Originally posted by cyborgguineapig
Whats to say someone can't increase this cement number of 16X?

Mmmm, I love mods. I'm pretty sure some clever monkeys will be able to change these things. The folks at valve probably limited themselves to 16x.

Then again, what would you do with something bigger than that?

 

[Chellis]

Naval warfare, duh

 

[Doobz]

does anybody know the real scale dimensions of the max map size in miles?

 

[AndersJ]

16 times isn't that much really...
You can now have 4 hl1 maps lined up.
Sure it's a lot better than hl1, but I believe that even quake3 support bigger maps.
But it's great too hear that it will support large outdoor maps anyway.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

Have you seen just how big you can make HL maps? people dont normall do it because of the fact that is runs so slow on most computers. The hl maps were actually quite big.

 

[Tequila]

And remember, in singleplayer you're not limiting to a single map, so thats 16x * as many maps as you want!

 

[derby]

Mods may be able to increase the map size, +-16384 units means that each co-ordinate is stored as 3 15 bit integers. If it is anything like the HL1 format, brushes are specified as four or more interecting planes and each plane is described using 3 integers. If each of these integers is stored using 2 bytes (16 bits) that means the theoretical maximum distance from the origin is twice the stated 16384 units.

There may be other things limiting the maximum map size. The graphics engine for instance, will use floating point numbers to represent co-ordinates (as unlike the map format, the graphics engine deals with polygons).

You could always scale everthing down like they did with HL rally. You would have problems with rounding of map planes (eg. at full scale you could make thin walls that were 1 unit thick, if you scaled everything down to 1/4 size and tried the same, your 1/4unit thick wall would have to be rounded up to 1 unit). Also you would have to scale a lot of the physics (acceleration for one thing would be out if you sclaed things down).

 

[AndersJ]

Farrowlesparrow yes I know how big hl maps can be...not big enough if ya want 3d-backgrounds, or create open outdoor maps.

 

[Xtasy0]

Originally posted by Doobz
does anybody know the real scale dimensions of the max map size in miles?

1 unit = 1 inch, you can do the math.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by Iced_Eagle
wow.... one huge map with extreme detaill btw Dave the LOD system will raise/lower the detail depending on distance so no performance can be lost by ammount of detail i want the SDK!

u haave to make diff textures, model, etc. for each distance (there are 3)

 

[smilez]

inch? noooo... the metric system is better, lazy americans who cant be bothered upgrading

"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets 40 rods to the hog's head and that's the way I likes it!" - Grampa Simpson

 

[Archangel]

after some mathematic calculations, a friend of mine came up with a maximal mapsize of about 0.7x0.7 miles. To the Battlefiledfans: thats supposed to be the size of berlin (/me doubts that)

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Archangel
after some mathematic calculations, a friend of mine came up with a maximal mapsize of about 0.7x0.7 miles. To the Battlefiledfans: thats supposed to be the size of berlin (/me doubts that)

Depends on how one mean "by the size of berlin". Berlin city is only a small portion of the actuall map. But its dead wrong if one mean the actuall Berlin play area. I have made a map in HL that is roughly the max size, and its about as large as the berlin area (probably larger, it had a HUGE bridge on it, that was twice as wide as any Berlin passage, and that was only a small part of the map). We clearly see its larger in HL2 in the E3 video, in the buggy sequence. Just look at it, that's the size of the Axis side of the Alamein desert, meaning half the size of the largest BF map available.

 

[JohnnyBeverage]

The metric system cant be that great, if Americans don't use it you know its not that great.:cheese:

 

[DaLys]

16384 units/inch is 40960 cm and that's 4096 dm and that's an extra 409,6 meters in each direction. How many units is there maximum in the maps in HL then?

Originally posted by JohnnyBeverage
The metric system cant be that great, if Americans don't use it you know its not that great.:cheese:

As we say here: "If the americans use it, you know it's wierd." But america should upgrade yes.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by DaLys
16384 units/inch is 40960 cm and that's 4096 dm and that's an extra 409,6 meters in each direction. How many units is there maximum in the maps in HL then?

That's 820m on the side then. That's pretty much... And that's what, 1.2km across? More than 10 minutes real time to walk across... Of course, you dont walk in HL2, you run, but still.

Size on a mod that only allows you to move slow (for instance Rainbow 6 style) would be huge... Its all a matter of perception

 

[Archangel]

and they can stil shrink everything in a mod, so mapsizes up to several kilometers shouldn't be that much a problem.

 

[JohnnyBeverage]

Never, we Americans shall never give into the evil of metrics. NEVER!
LOL.