May you kindly discuss Plot Twists/Spoilers/Ending here (WARNING: NO SPOILER TAGS!)

Tyguy said:
the game didnt really leave itself any viable way of being a series....but that could be a good thing, I think it was very well done.
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According to one of the ign podcasts, the developers mentioned BioShock 2. I'll have to check to see if I have it on my HD still.
 
Nice list. I'm away from my Bioshock-capable system right now, but once I get back I'm going to hunt for clues about Sullivan and Diane. I have a feeling Diane is either unnamed on Ryan's wall or somewhere in Atlas/Fontaine's part of town.

For a while I thought she might be Steinman's Aphrodite, but I doubt it. I'm curious if he invented her in his mind, or if Aphrodite is the first spider splicer perhaps... Not sure.

Sullivan talked about giving up his badge in response to the capital punishment, and I don't remember anything after that. I didn't look too far in at that point of contention in the city. Too busy dodging Houdini's and fighting BD's, I think.

A game prequel could work, I think. Where in Bioshock you get BD'ified, you could get hardcore spliced up and play from that perspective if you choose Fontaine, or stick with Ryan... I really think they'll do a second game in the universe. There are a bunch of unused plasmids, like mind control, teleportation, and others I'm sure I missed that could be added. If you gained the abilties of spider splicers to climb, they could easily add stealth elements to the game that just weren't possible. I think we can all agree seeing pre-war Rapture would be quite a sight, all lit up with the sea above...
 
A prequel cannot work because before the discovery of the sea slugs, there was peace. The endings are like HL and the obvious ending they would pick is the good ending. You die though as an old man but I think part of it is the gene modifications as well. An expansion pack as a big daddy could work but not a sequel or prequel. It's like making a Gladiator 2.
 
considering that ryan is still potentially alive thanks in part to those vita chambers and the city of rapture is still for the most part intact and packed with splicers, I imagine there could be more to be done. It would take some clever writing though.
 
BIOSHOCK 2: RETURN OF DIANE

*Experience the harrowing journey from Ryan's weekend pussy, to hard-boiled freedom fighter, battling the very man she loved.

*Whine into your audio logs, hoping that someone will find them.

*Get your face blown off while eating alone at a fancy restaurant on New Years Eve!

OUT 2008.
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Yeah.
 
Just completed it. The "good" ending brought a tear to my eye. All the story elements of Bioshock are succinct but brilliant.

Becoming a Big Daddy was wonderful.
 
Yeah, I'll third that. Its really rare for a game to have that kind of gut impact, especially one with a mostly silent protagonist.
 
I agree such an amazing game.

One question though in the ending it looks like you are reverted from being a big daddy. How did that happen? I thought it was one way and irreversible? o_O I got the good ending if it makes any difference.
 
AHA-Lambda said:
I agree such an amazing game.

One question though in the ending it looks like you are reverted from being a big daddy. How did that happen? I thought it was one way and irreversible? o_O I got the good ending if it makes any difference.
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You dont actually become a big daddy, you just dress like him, put on his cologne and alter your voice. :thumbs:
 
Tyguy said:
You dont actually become a big daddy, you just dress like him, put on his cologne and alter your voice. :thumbs:
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Yeah but the voice altering contraption spun into your throat it looked like and was bloody. Guess you moo for the rest of your life.
 
Yeah that must suck. Especially in social situations.

"Sir that'll be Three Fifty"
"BAAWWWOOOOOOO"
 
I made it through to the good ending. Personally I found it very moving. The end boss fight was lackluster and too easy though. Made it through the first time without dying once.
 
I liked the "good" ending. I do belive ryan is alive considering he seemed to want to escape. I saw something in my pc gamer magazine about bioshock 2 but only the cover says it. I could not find anything in the mag so it makes me guess it was a small hint that there will be bioshock 2.
 
The reason you took off the big daddy gear is because ur special:D PLus your jack the son of the guy who built the city underwater witch has turned into a hell hole filled with a buncha drug crazy idiots running around killing everything in sight and bleeding all over the place. Leaks geeks bleeding ghosts fire and flooding just like california at the same time. AInt rapture grand?
 
Both endings were too short, shit-quality FMVs. The final boss was ultra cool, but ultra WEAK.
Only real compliaints, other than I felt kinda cramnped. Woulda been nice to have at least one sprawling huge arena type area, even just for looks and atmoshpere.
 
I beat the final boss with a crossbow. With STEEL-TIPPED BOLTS. Waaay too easy.
Anyvays, One of my theories is that you are Andrew Ryan's son. Is this even possible?
When the end of the Andrew Ryan scene came, I was all, 'So.. can I NOT put it in?'
Which.. is impossible, I suddenly, I was all.. ohhh.. so he's a bas*ard. And as Atlas started Cackling maniacally, I was all, 'Oh... What a bi*ch.'
Time to go on youtube and see the good ending, and maybe recap on the Andrew Ryan scene.
 
Acepilotf14 said:
I beat the final boss with a crossbow. With STEEL-TIPPED BOLTS. Waaay too easy.
Anyvays, One of my theories is that you are Andrew Ryan's son. Is this even possible?
When the end of the Andrew Ryan scene came, I was all, 'So.. can I NOT put it in?'
Which.. is impossible, I suddenly, I was all.. ohhh.. so he's a bas*ard. And as Atlas started Cackling maniacally, I was all, 'Oh... What a bi*ch.'
Time to go on youtube and see the good ending, and maybe recap on the Andrew Ryan scene.
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Andrew ryan is your father its not a theory. The final boss is easy however even on hard mode.
 
Yeah you find it out in several diaries and what not. You're his son. Its why your able to use the Vita-Chambers.
 
Your mother is the woman in the room behind the dancing runway in the bar in Fort Frolic
 
Was only the only person that killed Cohen and the took a photographof his body, thus earning an achievement?
 
One play through I killed Cohen before the masterpiece was done. Needless to say, the game doesn't progress if you do that...heh.

Final Boss - good ending

As I said in one of the other threads, had recorded some scenes just to show friends, mostly non-gamers. At those settings it's laggy as hell, but even on low settings it lagged too so I figured it might as well look good. Tried to vary it up, showing different plasmids and weapons, etc.

Had another recording that was actually pretty cool. Shot an rpg and he dodged it, then rushed me. The rpg went past him and did a 180 and chased him down pretty much all the way across the room. Was just pretty cool when I side-stepped his rush and the rpg comes flying past me and finished him off. I also love it when he laughs when a splicer hits a cyclone trap..."HAH!".

-edit-

Final Boss - bad ending

Actually the rpg circled him like the first vid, then chased him down, which is actually kinda cooler. Dunno what was up with those bots but the friggin' hack thing never would come up on one them.
 
Cerpin said:
If you get to Atlas' safehouse, there are two logs that overlap. One where you can hear Fontaine change his voice back to Atlas, as you can hear Diane say 'I can't wait to tell Atlas'. That very phrase is also the end of her log, that you find on her body. I think.
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Pretty much. He smashes her through a table.


This game was fantastic up to and including the scene in Andrew Ryan's office. The atmosphere was pretty sharp, not infallible, but certainly very good. The action was average, probably at its best when fighting the Big Daddies in Haephestus. I was very disappointed with some of the story though. It had some very obvious points, especially if you've played SS2 before, and could have gone about certain things more subtly. For example, there are only one or two audio logs from Fontaine before he reveals himself, make it extremely obvious that he would be an important figure later (and indeed, as I had guessed, Atlas proved to be the SHODAN of Bioshock). That said, it was far above what you'd expect from most games, and the 'would you kindly' revelation was a fantastic twist.

However, after Ryan's office the game falls apart. You spend most of your time romping through boring flats and environments that don't stand out at all, and by that point I was completely sick of wrenching the same couple of splicers to death every time I turned a corner. I rescued all of the Little Sisters I had encountered, and I had way more ADAM and ammo than I needed.

The interesting radio messages from Ryan and Atlas were replaced by Fontaine's insufferably monotone voice moaning variations of 'I'ma kill youuu,' which dashed my hopes of there being little more than a poorly thought-out endboss awaiting me at the game's end.

The awfulness of the endboss (I killed him with a wrench and used ONE health hypo--what the hell?) was compounded by the fact that he was preceded by one of the most tedious and nonsensical escort quests ever, as well as the disappointment that followed the realisation that all becoming a Big Daddy meant was some audio changes and reduced vision--Yay! You spend the game taking down these lumbering armoured hulks with cool weapons, yet you end up as the craptacular Big Daddy Lite (one of the audio logs almost admits that it's a total cop-out, I couldn't believe my ears) and get a pop-up message saying you take less damage.

The execution of the ending was terrible. Why the hell was I littered with inconsequential moral decisions for the entire game, only to have the biggest decision of the game torn away from me by a crappy FMV? Screw that.

It's a shame that the later stages of the game were so bad, because pretty much all I remember from the game is being bored instead of the great bits early on. People spout off about their game being the 'spiritual successor' to this great game or that great game, yet in the end all they manage to do is make the same tired mistakes. Compare the ending of System Shock 2 to Bioshock's. Instead of saving some interesting story details for the conclusion, both games splurged early on and left the player with a dry, weak boss-fight for the end. Glad I saved money on this one, that's for sure.
 
You're harsher on Bioshock's failings than I would be, but I agree with the main gist of all your points.

Personally I was a little disappointed that more wasn't made of the view of the city. Sure, you see it a lot, but usually it's a view through cramped portholes of the same shop signs with that unrealistically wavy water effect. Olympus Heights, with it's big arching windowed halls was a step in the right direction, but more could have been done. One time at the Proving Grounds I checked the view out of one laboratory porthole, then went to the opposite end of the room and checked another - to find exactly the same view ¬_¬ Great. Although I do feel sad I missed seeing the Big Daddy wandering around outside in the water, that Ennui mentioned.

Personally I always looked forward to those little interlinking corridors made mainly of glass, since it was in those that I felt the environment best. It was great early on when you see a Big Daddy and little sister in a parallel walkway, before yet having physically encountered them. Cool touches like that get rarer as the game goes on though - as do the excellent audio diaries. Some of the best voicover acting I've ever heard in gaming has gone into those, especially Sander Cohen.

Still, despite distrusting Atlas from near the getgo, I found all of the plot developments fresh and interesting. Why Ryan didn't make use of the 'Would you kindly' thing to kill Atlas/Fontaine is a bit of a mystery to me, and I feel like there would be a lot of holes if I poked at the story hard enough but it was generally extremely satisfying (apart from the incredibly feeble ending, which I was prepared for). I found the moral dimension of the game to be complete hot air, but oh well, I enjoyed it anyway.

And to recap the places of death for some of the diary characters:
Diane McClintock is dead on a desk in Fontaine's poor house
Anna Culpepper is dead in a bath in her Apt at Artemis Suites, at the hands of Sullivan, who appears to have had some kind of nervous collapse after icing her - I dunno his PoD
Bill McDonagh seems to be strung up outside Ryan's office
So is the other would be assassin girl whose diaries you only find in Hephaestus
Suchong is dead on a table in his lab
Your mother, Jasmine something, is dead on the bed behind the club stage in Fort Frolic
 
venturon said:
The execution of the ending was terrible. Why the hell was I littered with inconsequential moral decisions for the entire game, only to have the biggest decision of the game torn away from me by a crappy FMV? Screw that.
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I'm actually a fan of that implimentation.

I can't stand games that allow you to be the baddest, nastiest and generally most unpleasant monstrosity to walk the face of the earth (or vice versa) and then choose the good ending. Its a much better implimentation than the "Quicksave before the final boss so I can watch both endings" approach that many games go for.
 
Adrik_Senturu said:
I didn't like Ending B too much. I felt like it just basically told me "Bad shit happens". I've would've liked to hear a bit more bout myself other than "You became an asshole. End"
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Hey, you killed little girls! You deserve it! :p
 
I love it how the devs made go from "I WANT TO ****ING KILL YOU, YOU OBJECTIVIST CHAIN WORSHIPPING ASSWIPE" to "Wow, you're actually pretty cool...what?! NO! I DONT WANT TO KIL-NOOOOOOOOO!!!!" in a matter of minutes.

Please still be alive, Mr Ryan. ;(
 
The "would you kindly" scene was brilliant. On my may to Ryan's office I was thinking the whole time "I don't want to kill this guy. I want to see what he has to say first. There is no way I'm just going to blow his head off as soon as I walk in the door no matter what Atlas says." So I was a bit blown away when that scene came about.

Who you are is obvious once you see the ghosts in the back of strip joint (that is, if you found and remembered the diary that talks about how only people related to Ryan and his crew can use the bathyspheres) but the would you kindly was very surprising.

The Vitachambers make no sense at all. They don't resurrect anyone else. The only way I can see them making sense is if they were programmed to only work on certain people (ie, Ryan). If that?s true, then Ryan?s probably still alive, hence why he didn?t fear you killing him.

I killed Cohen. I would have killed Tenembaum if I could too but we only ever see her in person once. I got the good ending BTW, which is exactly what I wanted to do (get the sisters out and leave the city to rot) except that I didn't get to kill Tenembaum. What happens in the bad ending? You take over the city, I assume, then what?
 
riomhaire said:
The Vitachambers make no sense at all. They don't resurrect anyone else. The only way I can see them making sense is if they were programmed to only work on certain people (ie, Ryan). If that?s true, then Ryan?s probably still alive, hence why he didn?t fear you killing him.
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But Rim-Fire, you ARE Ryan's offspring, that's why the Vita-Chambers are available to you. You are Ryan's DNA.

riomhaire said:
I killed Cohen. I would have killed Tenembaum if I could too but we only ever see her in person once. I got the good ending BTW, which is exactly what I wanted to do (get the sisters out and leave the city to rot) except that I didn't get to kill Tenembaum. What happens in the bad ending? You take over the city, I assume, then what?
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Cohen was possibly the best character besides Ryan, I let him live. Saving all the little sisters gets you the good ending.

Also, Tenenbaum was a good person! :p
 
Cormeh said:
Cohen was possibly the best character besides Ryan, I let him live.
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I let him live. And then I knocked over a gramophone in his apartment and he flew into a rage, came over and tried to kill me.
 
Operational said:
I let him live. And then I knocked over a gramophone in his apartment and he flew into a rage, came over and tried to kill me.
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Well, aye. But I mean specifically at Fort FrolALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD.
 
The 'would you kindly' scene kinda went over my head first time, I was working alot so wasn't playing Bioshock regularly to keep totally intune with events. So when Ryan started repeating 'Would you kindly?..', flashbacks of Atlas saying it started popping up and the music switching more dramatic i was kinda like 'what?, whats the big deal? You did everything Atlas said, 'A man chooses, a slave obeys', yes i'm a slave, i didn't get a choice'. But yeah thats the point i guess.
 
riomhaire said:
That's my point. They only make sense if they're programmed to work specificly for Ryan and a few others.
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Vita-Chambers work for only Ryan's DNA. They are programmed like that, it's in an audio diary.

riomhaire said:
Not according to Tenembaum.
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She's remorseful. She got carried away with her research into ADAM without believing that Fontaine or Ryan would exploit it or even use it as weaponry. She's an opportunist who's trying to mend her errors.

Compare her to Suchong and it makes more sense.
 
Cormeh said:
Vita-Chambers work for only Ryan's DNA. They are programmed like that, it's in an audio diary.
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Really? The only reference I can remember being made to them is Suchongs ranting
"all they say is plasmid this, quantum-entanglement that, and their proof? The dead come back to life! What nonsense!"
 
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