minor gripe about the HL2 torch/lighting effects

[Growler1984]

I'm sure it's been mentioned on here before, but I couldn't specifically find it using the search; so I'll post it here.


Is it because of the engine's limitations - or the DX8 limitations, that when you shine your torch in front of an object or person, it doesn't create a shadow behind it?

I always find it annoying that when someone is directly in front of a light source, it doesn't create a shadow of any kind! But [thanks to Garry's Mod] we know that creating light sources are easy to do (albeit still rather an underdeveloped idea, I'd say)

I don't really know much about DirectX cards and shadow effects [I've only got a DX8 card - hoping to get a new PC rig soon - so I can't play any games better than HL2; if that's the best one using DX8], but has there been any games [DX8 or 9] where you can see their shadow move with the lighting?


obviously we know the Unreal Engine 3 has basically done the shadows to perfection - so there's no need to mention them

 

[Beerdude26]

It's added in EP2. The software of a few years ago (in general? wasn't strong enough for this.

 

[Rim-Fire]

This will be implemented in Half-Life 2: Episode 2
Enjoy

 

[Growler1984]

sweetness!

But would it be possible to implement/script[?] these things into the original & Ep1 at all?

 

[Solver]

Valve is said to eventually reverse-improve HL2/Ep1 with the newer graphical stuff.

I also thinking that lighting & shadowing is the poorest part of HL2, graphically. Then again, if they did dynamic L&S for HL2 when released, that would absolutely kill their idea of scaling well for different hardware. HL2 ran well on weaker computers back then. Games like Doom3 or FEAR are extreme resource hogs mainly due to dynamic lighting & shadowing.

 

[Beerdude26]

Multiple dynamic shadows were already implemented in Source when it came out, as were parallax maps (the stuff that gives F.E.A.R. its very 3D feeling, example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax_mapping). It just raped older machines and gave significant FPS decreases on even the newest ones.

 

[Growler1984]

hold on a sec... how does parallax mapping improve shadow effects? from that Wiki link, it sounds more about bump-mapping than anything else.


but like I said, it doesn't have to exactly be dynamic lighting, but more rather the logistics [the logic] behind having a light source interacting with an object.

 

[Solver]

Yep, parallax mapping is a different beast from lighting, basically making textures seem 3D. The problem with all these techs is that they are quite computing-power expensive.

 

[SPARTACVS]

This will be implemented in Half-Life 2: Episode 2
Enjoy

Well... his card may struggle with self-shadowing anyways considering it's a rather old DX8. So even though VALVe IS adding the tech, if it makes your game crawl I would personally prefer to leave the setting off.

 

[Grem]

Because Valve are having to recompile all the maps with HDR anyway for the console release of Half-Life 2 I belive that they will also release updated versions of Half Life 2 and ep1 with the HDR and new shadow system shortly after the release of Episode 2

 

[Growler1984]

forgive my n00biness here [as I asked on another topic], but what exactly is HDR? ^^;

 

[Beerdude26]

hold on a sec... how does parallax mapping improve shadow effects? from that Wiki link, it sounds more about bump-mapping than anything else.


but like I said, it doesn't have to exactly be dynamic lighting, but more rather the logistics [the logic] behind having a light source interacting with an object.

Parallax mapping is indeed a bumpmap combined with a height map, which gives the texture certain depth.

 

[Rim-Fire]

forgive my n00biness here [as I asked on another topic], but what exactly is HDR? ^^;

It's basicly a lighting effect that simulates the iris of the eye adjusting to light levels. IE, when you go from a very dark area to a very bright area all the light is exagerated. A good example is in this thread.

 

[Solver]

Note that the effect generally sucks in screenshots. In screenshots, it looks like very exaggerated bloom lighting / excessively bright lighting. In motion, though, it's much better.

 

[Jintor]

I hope the improve the fire effect, especially on citizens.

They scream in agony but just sort of stand there.

 

[Acepilotf14]

Burning zombies are great. They flail about, and then fall on the floor, still screaming.

 

[Jintor]

And the Combine have the same animation. Rebels, however... they strafe and stuff while screaming in horrible agony. It's very disturbing because they can't stop drop and roll or anything.

They can't even try and slap it out on themselves.

 

[hentai]

Yes, pretty old Deus Ex:Invisible War has more realistic dynamic lighting and scope of physics then HL2. When you point with the light on the object it creates the shadow like it should be.

Lazyness, just lazyness...:frown:

 

[Operational]

Yes, pretty old Deus Ex:Invisible War has more realistic dynamic lighting and scope of physics then HL2. When you point with the light on the object it creates the shadow like it should be.

It also has higher system requirements and (from the screenshots I googled) looks worse then HL2. Having never played it I'm not sure what you mean by "scope of physics"

Lazyness, just lazyness...:frown:

I'd hardly call millions of dollars and 6 years of R&D a form of lazyness. You really do have some serious anti-valve issues (makes me wonder why you joined this forum in the first place).

 

[hentai]

Actually when you install high-resolution textures for Deus Ex: Invisible War, it looks better then HL2(which still has very low textures), not to mention when you play it in the highest resolution, also you can manipulate almost any object in the game, just one example for lights-you can shoot a hanging lamp and it moves accordingly along with the light and shadows.
Then when you totally close in to the wall/object the weapon you are holding is backed away(Area 51 first introduced this), not stupidly out of scale like in HL2. And whole bunch of other stuff.

Compared to Deus Ex:Invisible War's physics, object manipulation, dynamic light etc. HL2 has nothing!

 

[Solver]

You realize that making a high texture pack for a game a year or more after its release is a totally different thing? Games are released with whatever textures they have for performance reasons. Two years later, computers have much faster central & graphics processors and more memory. So duh. There's also a high-res texture pack for HL2, Fakefactory, where the resolutions are often considerably higher than stock HL2, with corresponding memory requirements.

And don't make a fool out of yourself by proclaiming that the lack of dynamic lighting is to be attributed to laziness. How many published computer games have you worked on as a tester or a developer? Or how many games have you modded for? The way you speak would indicate that you have no knowledge of programming and game development but do indeed like to talk.

If it weren't for your avatar, I'd go kick your ass .

 

[Jintor]

Actually when you install high-resolution textures for Deus Ex: Invisible War, it looks better then HL2(which still has very low textures), not to mention when you play it in the highest resolution, also you can manipulate almost any object in the game, just one example for lights-you can shoot a hanging lamp and it moves accordingly along with the light and shadows.
Then when you totally close in to the wall/object the weapon you are holding is backed away(Area 51 first introduced this), not stupidly out of scale like in HL2. And whole bunch of other stuff.

Compared to Deus Ex:Invisible War's physics, object manipulation, dynamic light etc. HL2 has nothing!

Let's see. A 3rd party collection of files onto a game makes it look better. And that doesn't happen with Half-Life 2...?

The hanging lamp shadow lights blahblahblah happen already. And, I'll be frank: I don't believe you at all.

 

[TaoFan]

Shadows with torchlight?

coughDoom3cough

 

[hentai]

What high-res texture pack for HL2 are you talking about?
Are you saying such pack exists that when you close in on the wall/object it doesn't look like it came out of 8-year old's paintbrush?

I would reallly like to know this...

P.S.
And how come when you close in older Halo the texture is super sharp or for instance in Serious Sam 2.
But no, in HL2 even in the highest resolution the textures are obscenely crude!

 

[L337PwnageN00b]

man all you do is gripe about its appearance

 

[Solver]

The pack is Fakefactory, as I said. Fakefactory's Cinematic Mod is the full name, I believe.

Tell you what, I could make a game with obscenely high-res textures, 4096x4096 being the lowest res. Only problem is, that game would run like crap in small confined rooms. Whereas a few years later, it will no longer be a problem at that resolution. In late 2004, the open spaces of HL2 and, mostly, the physics pushed computers far enough. Today's computers could handle that plus higher res textures. In 2010 they could handle even higher res textures.

I don't know about Halo, might have used detail textures. It's a technology when there are essentially two textures. One is a texture you see from far out. When you come close to an object, that texture is replaced by another texture, which is of higher res and shows the object in detail.

As to why HL2 doesn't use detail textures, do not ask me. It might be to limit the game's size somewhat, a 5 CD / 1 DVD game is fairly big for when HL2 was released.

 

[Jintor]

What high-res texture pack for HL2 are you talking about?
Are you saying such pack exists that when you close in on the wall/object it doesn't look like it came out of 8-year old's paintbrush?

I would reallly like to know this...

P.S.
And how come when you close in older Halo the texture is super sharp or for instance in Serious Sam 2.
But no, in HL2 even in the highest resolution the textures are obscenely crude!

Because the game is built to run well even on low end systems. Perhaps they should've included a SUPA HIGH RESOLUTION mode, but, honestly, I think that time is better spent making awesome gameplay.

 

[Rim-Fire]

Actually when you install high-resolution textures for Deus Ex: Invisible War, it looks better then HL2(which still has very low textures),

Wow, a third-party modification can make a game look better than HL2!

not to mention when you play it in the highest resolution, also you can manipulate almost any object in the game, just one example for lights-you can shoot a hanging lamp and it moves accordingly along with the light and shadows.

HL2 doesn't have dynamic lighting, it's not the end of the world you know.

Then when you totally close in to the wall/object the weapon you are holding is backed away(Area 51 first introduced this), not stupidly out of scale like in HL2. And whole bunch of other stuff.

OMG I'm so going to buy this game, the weapons move back when you go up against the wall! (Actually, I already own the damn game, I've finished it and I never noticed that, I guess I was just too busy caring about the gameplay (poor, BTW) and not the feature creep you seem to love)

Compared to Deus Ex:Invisible War's physics, object manipulation, dynamic light etc. HL2 has nothing!

Do you honestly believe that Invisible War's physics are better than Half-Life 2's?

 

[Asknoone]

Hentai is a stupid twat who is banned. See guys? There is a god.

 

[Solver]

No, there are only unfair moderators. You have now stolen our ability to show off our understanding of game development & technology .

 

[Polaris]

Yes, pretty old Deus Ex:Invisible War has more realistic dynamic lighting and scope of physics then HL2. When you point with the light on the object it creates the shadow like it should be.

Lazyness, just lazyness...:frown:

Pretty old Deus Ex:Invisible War (2003) is a good game but completly without any optimalization. On my computer I can perfectly run HL2: EP1 (2006) with max. details and effects + HDR but Deus Ex IW runs very slowly on resolution 800x600 (minimal effects).
And BTW thanks Samon for ban him.