Other titles with real time lighting?

No, i dont say it so matter of factly. I start out with IMO, or at the end i say but thats my opinion. Ofcourse i believe my opinion is right, other wise it wouldnt be my opinion.

:cool:

I am allowed to form an opinion based on all the material we have available to us at this time, and thats fine if we do that as long as we keep in mind that the material is subject to change, which i htink everyone is doing.
 
I feel like Doom3, Stalker, and Half Life 2 are all doing their parts to approach the ultimate goal of realism. They all have unique features that really accentuate their engines graphically:

Doom 3: Unified light and shadowing system.
Stalker: Uber-high quality textures and attention to detail.
Half Life 2: Extensive use of shaders.

They all attempt to mimic reality in their own ways, it just comes down to which process you prefer.
 
oh come on guys, kiss n make up. Ewok is trying to be better, just ;), and even managed a discussion with Ghost without as Chris put it, the thread ending with being locked :)


Personally though, I don't see anything visually amazing from Stalker.. doesn't take talent to mimic a realworld setting, just a digital camera, the rest looks a bit too cartoonish.. but thats just _my_ opinion ;)
 
also realize everyone is different, I mean what I consider breath taking, may not what you consider "up to par".
We come back to Perception.
People are going to like, what they like (obviously)


(and EEwok, good on ya for your civility)
 
Fenric, have you seen the end segment of the most recent 5min trailer, though? Very neat lighting and specular effects.
 
lol, no no, I agree, Ewok is being better, and I already said I appreciated it :) He's not bringing out the "SAHDASHDASDSA DIE U~!~!!" side of me, where I freak out at all of his "facts", which is relieving, and like I said, he's being better :cheers:

Anyhow.. ironsam has a good point, and I agree with that. Although I think HL2 has the best use of physics (from what I've seen), which should be added to the HL2 plus side of realism.

And, Ewok, did you say earlier that HL2's physics felt like a techdemo, or was that someone else? Anyhow, not that it matters, but the physicsgun isn't going to be in the normal game (I doubt it, anyway, it has no real use), although the manipulator will. So, in that respect, the physicsgun IS a techdemo tool :)
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
Personally though, I don't see anything visually amazing from Stalker.. doesn't take talent to mimic a realworld setting, just a digital camera, the rest looks a bit too cartoonish.. but thats just _my_ opinion ;)
Click to expand...

I definitely agree to that. It's the same reason I don't think the Max Payne series was graphically exceptional. It's easy to wrap high quality textures around relatively low-poly models. Bump-mapping and shaders are the way to go for good looking graphics in my opinion. The textures may not be as rich in HL2 or D3, but I think the graphics have way more depth to them (figuretively and literally).
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
lol, no no, I agree, Ewok is being better, and I already said I appreciated it :) He's not bringing out the "SAHDASHDASDSA DIE U~!~!!" side of me, where I freak out at all of his "facts", which is relieving, and like I said, he's being better :cheers:

Anyhow.. ironsam has a good point, and I agree with that. Although I think HL2 has the best use of physics (from what I've seen), which should be added to the HL2 plus side of realism.

And, Ewok, did you say earlier that HL2's physics felt like a techdemo, or was that someone else? Anyhow, not that it matters, but the physicsgun isn't going to be in the normal game (I doubt it, anyway, it has no real use), although the manipulator will. So, in that respect, the physicsgun IS a techdemo tool :)
Click to expand...

physicsgun has great potential to be used in the game, and ever since the first tech demo movie i've been fairly certain that it will be in the game, and my opinion still hasn't changed ;p
 
Stalker will have shaders and use bumpamps.

D/l the latest 5 min trailer. At the end you will see a very impressive segment of bumpmapped surfaces compined with specular effects and dynamic lighting. The shader effects are just far from finished in stalker, so they havnt hsown much of it. They arent even done making the water as you can see in some of the screens.

And when i said physgun i was talking about the rusted one with the orange light, not the one with the blue lightningbolt. I was under the impression that it was going to be in the final game.
 
Originally posted by EvilEwok2.0
Fenric, have you seen the end segment of the most recent 5min trailer, though? Very neat lighting and specular effects.
Click to expand...

I agree whole-heartedly. The flashlight illumination effects are awesome.
 
Originally posted by Xtasy0
physicsgun has great potential to be used in the game, and ever since the first tech demo movie i've been fairly certain that it will be in the game, and my opinion still hasn't changed ;p
Click to expand...

Doesn't seem too useful to me, but, maybe you're right, gimme some examples of how you could use it? :) (I'm thinking, making ledges to get to higher places, making bridges.. etc?)

Originally posted by EvilEwok2.0
And when i said physgun i was talking about the rusted one with the orange light, not the one with the blue lightningbolt. I was under the impression that it was going to be in the final game.
Click to expand...

How is the manipulator (the orange gun) not useful? It's a weapon, you can pick stuff up and throw it at the enemies.. assuming they ration your ammo alot in HL2, it'd be very useful to use the environment to kill enemies as opposed to going gungho with bullets flying
 
Originally posted by EvilEwok2.0
And when i said physgun i was talking about the rusted one with the orange light, not the one with the blue lightningbolt. I was under the impression that it was going to be in the final game.
Click to expand...

Thought Gabe said that they canned this in the final version. Anyone else remember reading this? For some reason, in the beta, the phsygun does not have a model. And if you have the Manipulator selected first, and then switch to the physgun, no model appears at all. You just see the blue beam when you use it.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
Thought Gabe said that they canned this in the final version. Anyone else remember reading this? For some reason, in the beta, the phsygun does not have a model. And if you have the Manipulator selected first, and then switch to the physgun, no model appears at all. You just see the blue beam when you use it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was pretty sure the physgun wasn't gonna be part of SP too.

Anyhow, the model is there, it's just corrupted (as are quite alot of models), check out the weapons folder and you'll see
 
Originally posted by Shuzer
Yeah, I was pretty sure the physgun wasn't gonna be part of SP too.

Anyhow, the model is there, it's just corrupted (as are quite alot of models), check out the weapons folder and you'll see
Click to expand...

I want the final build NOW. Here's to hoping it comes out this year :cheers:
 
no, no, i didnt say it wasnt usefull. When i was, eh, dreaming of playing hl2 i used that gun more than any other. But it really felt out of place for a weapon, i felt like i was playing a physics demo more than a game. I mean, it doesnt feel like it has any real reason to be there. It feels like it was added for the soul purpose of playing with the physics, and thats why i say it takes away the feeling of a game and makes it feel like a physics dmeo.
 
Originally posted by EvilEwok2.0
Fenric, have you seen the end segment of the most recent 5min trailer, though? Very neat lighting and specular effects.
Click to expand...

yep.. But thats not impressive to me. It seems Valve have just not seen fit to make a big deal about specular effects or over use them in HL2. They can be seen in the vids though, but its treated as another step toward realism that doesn't warrent a big deal made about it and not a selling point. I mean.. its just a specular effect afterall.

I guess the way I see it is this. Anyone, if they have super talent or not, can go out to a place on Earth, take tons of photo's, measurements and so on, and then replicate it to look almost, possibly exactly the same. Then throw lots of fancy lighting and spec maps in to shout "hey look what we can do with technology everyone else can do already" Whereas Valve appear to treat it more as yet another tool in their box, no more special than another tool, it has its purpose and thats it.

Lensflares - when used correctly, they can really enhance a piece of work. But most will just put them in without thought cause it seems flashy, but just looks tacky

Arnold Renders - Souly responsible for making Global Illumination look tacky. Far Far too many people saw it as a "make my render look cool" feature, and used it for everything and anything. Result. Do one like that now and you'll be bound to get some pretty nasty remarks

Realtime cell shading - It looked neat at first, then suddenly everyone jumped on that bandwagon sticking it in their games for no real reason other than to show off, and now that too just looks bad

What I'm saying is. In 5 years time, people will still be discussing HL2 on its merits, on the way its actually still managing to be semi-original in the face of a thousand clones, but will they be discussing Stalker for its specular effects, when in 5 years time specular effects will be expected as a standard bottom of the line feature, just as it is with pre-rendered work, rather than something to buy a game on
 
Yeah, HL2 this year would be quite nice, I'd hate to have STALKER/Far Cry/HL2/D3 all come out within a month or two of eachother, too much gaming goodness to enjoy at one time
 
Anything that can throw jeeps over mountains deserves to be in the final game. :P
 
Sorry, when i say physgun im talking abou tthe orange one, not the blue lightningbolt. I thought the orange one is called the physgun, and the blue one is called the manipulator.
 
ack stolen file talk.. nooooo! things were going so well and everyone getting on with each other with possibly the first stalker vs HL2 vs DIII discussion that hasn't turned to crap I've seen on here so far :D, and even Ewok being nice. Lets not spoil it getting the thread closed, purdy pleeeease :)
 
The blue "lightning bolt" gun = phys(ics)gun
The orange gun that picks objects up, and launches them = manipulator

I see at as the (blue) physicsgun not having a major role in the game. I see it as useless, in my book. However, the (orange) manipulator would be useful, IMO, for killing enemies, in which the physgun would not have a purpose.

Also, if you flip your buggy upside down, or something, you can knock it back on its right side with the manipulator, something you can't do with the physgun

But here's to hoping they're both in the game, anyway, as they're both really cool :)
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
yep.. But thats not impressive to me. It seems Valve have just not seen fit to make a big deal about specular effects or over use them in HL2. They can be seen in the vids though, but its treated as another step toward realism that doesn't warrent a big deal made about it and not a selling point. I mean.. its just a specular effect afterall.

I guess the way I see it is this. Anyone, if they have super talent or not, can go out to a place on Earth, take tons of photo's, measurements and so on, and then replicate it to look almost, possibly exactly the same. Then throw lots of fancy lighting and spec maps in to shout "hey look what we can do with technology everyone else can do already" Whereas Valve appear to treat it more as yet another tool in their box, no more special than another tool, it has its purpose and thats it.

Lensflares - when used correctly, they can really enhance a piece of work. But most will just put them in without thought cause it seems flashy, but just looks tacky

Arnold Renders - Souly responsible for making Global Illumination look tacky. Far Far too many people saw it as a "make my render look cool" feature, and used it for everything and anything. Result. Do one like that now and you'll be bound to get some pretty nasty remarks

Realtime cell shading - It looked neat at first, then suddenly everyone jumped on that bandwagon sticking it in their games for no real reason other than to show off, and now that too just looks bad

What I'm saying is. In 5 years time, people will still be discussing HL2 on its merits, on the way its actually still managing to be semi-original in the face of a thousand clones, but will they be discussing Stalker for its specular effects, when in 5 years time specular effects will be expected as a standard bottom of the line feature, just as it is with pre-rendered work, rather than something to buy a game on
Click to expand...

Are you implying that graphics is all STALKER has going for it? I think its a little premature to judge gameplay in either game seeing as neither are currently on the market. And they are both very different games. One is an action fps driven by story, whereas another is a fps rpg that is totally non-linear (or so previews say).
For me, STALKER interests me because ever since having played the Fallout series, I've fallen in love with the post apocalyptic atmosphere. Not only does STALKER sport this, but in fine detail. The gameplay mechanics sound fantastic; to be able to have a different experience from your friend because of its open-endedness is cool in of itself. The fact that the other Stalkers in the game world have dynamic schedules means you're probably never going to run into them in the same place twice. Yeah, I know it sounds like I'm being a fanboy, but I do want Half-Life 2 just as much as this game.
One more thing to note: I doubt specular effects is ALL folks will be referring to when talking about STALKER. If the gameplay succeeds and is not too tedious or sluggish, then I think it'll be a winner in the same vein that I'm sure Half-Life 2 and Doom III will be.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
Are you implying that graphics is all STALKER has going for it? I think its a little premature to judge gameplay in either game seeing as neither are currently on the market. And they are both very different games. One is an action fps driven by story, whereas another is a fps rpg that is totally non-linear (or so previews say).
Click to expand...

Well since the game isn't out, and nobody can see how the game plays, the gameplay can't come into question, same goes for HL2 and DoomIII.. Thats why we're discussing the visual side of things. Cause we can't discuss the gameplay cause nobody knows. It could stink, or it could be good, for all we know. But still, some of these other games are pushing the visual side of things, with stuff that isn't all that impressive. Valve, of course showed off some visual stuff, but also wanted to get across the gameplay in HL2. cept they've been beaten up for their AI vs scripted stuff (which pleeease I don't want to start a discussion on AI vs scripts hahaha) Valve seem more to have gone for gameplay first, then used what tools they could to help out other area's rather than worry about the visual side of things first.

For me, STALKER interests me because ever since having played the Fallout series, I've fallen in love with the post apocalyptic atmosphere. Not only does STALKER sport this, but in fine detail. The gameplay mechanics sound fantastic; to be able to have a different experience from your friend because of its open-endedness is cool in of itself. The fact that the other Stalkers in the game world have dynamic schedules means you're probably never going to run into them in the same place twice. Yeah, I know it sounds like I'm being a fanboy, but I do want Half-Life 2 just as much as this game.
Click to expand...

naa you don't sound like a fanboy.. You'd be typing in scriptkiddie text and insulting people a lot if you were a fanboy :)

Besides, I like the post apocalyptic atmosphere as you do, it can make for some stunning imagery and its a lot of fun to do. But can it carry a game worthy enough of the players, cause lets face it, gamers these days are VERY hard to please... just look at us ;)

One more thing to note: I doubt specular effects is ALL folks will be referring to when talking about STALKER. If the gameplay succeeds and is not too tedious or sluggish, then I think it'll be a winner in the same vein that I'm sure Half-Life 2 and Doom III will be.
Click to expand...

If the gameplay is good, then it'll do well. That was my point. Their banding about these flashy visuals, that anyone can do really. But when it comes down to it, if the game is boring, people just wont like it.. Doesn't really matter if its laggy, if a game is good enough then people will play it, even at a few frames a second. But if the game isn't fun then no amount of visual effects will help it.. Just look at the Final Fantasy movie.. *grins*
 
Originally posted by Fenric1138
Besides, I like the post apocalyptic atmosphere as you do, it can make for some stunning imagery and its a lot of fun to do. But can it carry a game worthy enough of the players, cause lets face it, gamers these days are VERY hard to please... just look at us ;)
Click to expand...

Yah, we sit here and talk sh!t about future games instead of playing present ones.
 
Fenric, i dont understand how recreating a real world envorinment realistically is so easy. I could tell you to make a hl2 map of your house, but if you dont have any skill it will come out looking like shit. Just because half of the stalker world is based on a real world place doesnt mean its any easier to make it realistic. Sure they have a base to start one, something to look at for reference, but so do other mappers. Thats what concept artists are for.

And a great deal of what makes stalker look so realistic has ntohhing to do with how accuratly they mapped out this building or that building, or if they got the street names right. Above all the one feature that adds to the realism of stalker is the lighting. Next, is the quality of textures. Next, is the geometric detail i nthe maps. Next is the dynamic skies. Having digital pics of a real world environment doesnt really have much of an affect on these things. It Gives artists a rough idea of what they are supposed to make, but it requires a great deal of skill to pull it off realistically.




Besides all that, i think stalker wil lbe remembered for a long time for its non-lenierity. Games like doom3 and hl2 create a nice looking world for you to run around in, but games like stalker create a realistically acting(not just looking) world for you to actually become a part of. What i mean is your actions and the decisions you make have a direct effect on the world around you, and the story you are following. There are EIGHT different endings based on what you do and how you play. Thats awesome.
 
Originally posted by Mr. Redundant
oh god
the horror
...
the.. horror
Click to expand...

i hope you appreciate the simple things in life now, and stop complaining about games
 
Originally posted by iamironsam
Yah, we sit here and talk sh!t about future games instead of playing present ones.
Click to expand...

hehe exactly.. Though saying that I'm hoping to get a moment spare to get into town tomorrow and see if I can find a copy of Morrowind. I think its about time I had a look at that properly. I heard the goty version had all the addons and extra's with it. So hopefully that means the PC version aswell as the XBox version.
 
Originally posted by EvilEwok2.0
[Purged a bunch of pointless stuff]
Click to expand...
So in short, you're unwilling to give Valve any of the credit they're due.
 
Originally posted by spitcodfry
Thought Gabe said that they canned this in the final version. Anyone else remember reading this? For some reason, in the beta, the phsygun does not have a model. And if you have the Manipulator selected first, and then switch to the physgun, no model appears at all. You just see the blue beam when you use it.
Click to expand...

i've never seen gabe say that.

whenever he's been asked about that bluebeam dealy h's only said "it's a different weapon".
 
Originally posted by Lil' Timmy
i hope you appreciate the simple things in life now, and stop complaining about games
Click to expand...

I always did appreciate life, however I now fear flash...

as for complaining about games, I havent (at least not to my knowledge) Im the one saying "think of the children" here bud ;)
go forth and burninate
 
No, mountainman ;o

Valve has made a nice looking engine and it looks like they are making a nice looking game with of it. But you were going on about how valve is pushing gaming technology and how source is so far advanced. I only presented what i feel to be a more realistic point of view.

Dont be so quick to take it as an attack on valve. They are doing a good job, but many others are doing just as well if not better. Thats all i was trying to say.
 
Originally posted by EvilEwok2.0
Dont be so quick to take it as an attack on valve. They are doing a good job, but many others are doing just as well if not better. Thats all i was trying to say.
Click to expand...

:cheers: Best paragraph you've typed here yet.

I think that summarizes your views better than all your posts, I do believe most people saw your statements as "While VALVe has made a good engine, all the others are better."

However, by including "just as well, if not better", it leads me (not sure about anyone else) to believe that you actually DO believe Source is as advanced as the other engines. Thus giving VALVe proper credit :)
 
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