"per-pixel hit accuracy" sounds cool

[Guest]

Originally posted by Todd Hollenshead
DOOM 3's multiplayer features "per-pixel hit accuracy," a far cry from the early days of deathmatch when player models were inside an invisible bounding box, allowing you to "hit" players even when you've actually shot the area just next to them. It's now possible to watch a rocket pass under a player's arm, and the overall effect is that you need to be a bit more accurate with many of the weapons.

I quoted this from gamespy.com, man this per-pixel hit detection thing sounds so cool? It will be great that hl2 has such a feature too.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I *think* that HL2 has this. It comes under the same sor of thing as clipping. And valve said that they want to elliminate clipping entirely.


so i would say yes. But dont quote me lol

 

[Gunner]

I don't know if HL2 has it, but we're way past the box thing now: in Halflife you have about 20 boxes that define the model, at least this is what I saw when I used that soft HLMV. It's not exactly the most accurate hit detection system but it works fine IMO

 

[dawdler]

"early days of deathmatch", hehe, every game use that now
I'f I'm not wrong, I thought HL2 would use per-vertex hit detection instead... But maybe not, I cant remember anything today, I'm probably wrong

 

[Guest]

i'm looking forward to watch a rocket pass between ur legs and scare the shit out of u

 

[Guest]

man when are they going to release some new media on steam.

 

[dis]

Now I could be completely wrong, but what I understand at this point is that HL2 is going to use hitboxes again, like HL1. But that doesn't mean that you couldn't get Source to do this per-pixel (I thought it was actually called per-polygon, but whatever...) accuracy stuff. Sounds like it makes it a lot harder to hit your opponents, but I definitely like the idea because it's more accurate. Source seems so versatile that it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't already used in HL2 that it could be easily implemented. Might be something worth asking Gabe.

 

[TheWart]

Originally posted by dis
Now I could be completely wrong, but what I understand at this point is that HL2 is going to use hitboxes again, like HL1. But that doesn't mean that you couldn't get Source to do this per-pixel (I thought it was actually called per-polygon, but whatever...) accuracy stuff. Sounds like it makes it a lot harder to hit your opponents, but I definitely like the idea because it's more accurate. Source seems so versatile that it wouldn't surprise me if it isn't already used in HL2 that it could be easily implemented. Might be something worth asking Gabe.

I am not a game programmer, but I do know some stuff about it.

It is not easy to go from one to the othe....they are completely different.

I wish HL2 had used the per-pixel method, but I guess with enough different boxes you can get almost the same results.

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by TheWart
I am not a game programmer, but I do know some stuff about it.

It is not easy to go from one to the othe....they are completely different.

I wish HL2 had used the per-pixel method, but I guess with enough different boxes you can get almost the same results.

But keep in mind, Its two completely different engines here...
I still think polygon detection is the easiest way. There is no need for hitboxes, though I suppose one need to order the vertices so that its body parts. Shouldnt be hard with an exporter. But maybe per-pixel hit is just as fast if one get it right, I dont know anything either about it

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Well I heard that valve were kind of using hit boxes. Only those "boxes" Make up an exact replica of the object. This helps with clipping collision detection as well.

 

[tewmten]

Would be nice to have per-pixel hit detection, that way I wouldn't be TK'ing by misstake when trying to shoot above my teammates in DoD (I hate when that happens..)

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by tewmten
Would be nice to have per-pixel hit detection, that way I wouldn't be TK'ing by misstake when trying to shoot above my teammates in DoD (I hate when that happens..)

sometime some sick bastard teamate just keep running in front of me to steal my kill, so i decide to thompson both of them.

 

[Typhon]

Originally posted by marksmanHL2
Well I heard that valve were kind of using hit boxes. Only those "boxes" Make up an exact replica of the object. This helps with clipping collision detection as well.

lol. yeah, HL2 uses hit-boxes. If by "box" you mean ten 500+ poly objects that make up the body! good call marksman.

 

[Ro@cH]

I remember when CS had an inherited HL-bug that would cause bullets to be ineffective if fired from a specific angle onto the head of an enemy. They fixed it in a patch.

You don't need per-pixel hit detection if you have per-polygon(face) hit detection. I don't really see the difference, only that per-pixel would ask alot more processor time. Perhaps it's a mix-up in words, perhaps it's iD being really thorough. If they want creatures with invincible pieces that would consist of parts of polygons, they need per-pixel. I can imagine a fire demon with fire inside it's chest for example.

As far as HL's concerned, I'll be pleased if they use per-polygon hit-detection. That would also mean that they, or modders, could make every piece of armor bullet-proof, instead of making a general bullet-proof hitbox (RTCW?). Though that would probably ask for a bit of polygon rearranging in the models.

 

[DrEvil]

Wow, per pixel! That sounds like overkill though. What would we use such accuracy for?

 

[dis]

So is HL2 using per-polygon hit detection? I'm confused....

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

I believe so.

 

[DimitriPopov]

I dont think it sounds that awsome , it is a cool idea though. It could be accomplished with hitboxes that are more form fitting. But not to the same degree , so per polygon hit detection = cool.

 

[Typhon]

shoot the bad guy under the arm...its a torso shot but not protected by body armor...

 

[Guest]

i sent an email off to gaben exept a response when hl3 is released


I LOVE HL2 AND GAVE AND OOOOOOO JOY YAY MC YAYERS

 

[Xei]

Sounds like gamespy got the terminology wrong btw, load of other places refer to it as per poly which makes a lot more sense if you think about it. Right?
Since Doom 3 and from what I've heard Halo uses this technology I would've thought Valve would be into it too, unless there's some performance reason for not using it. If they aren't I'd still think it might be something source could use in later games like Counter-Strike 2 or something.
All just assumptions though

 

[dawdler]

Originally posted by Xei
Sounds like gamespy got the terminology wrong btw, load of other places refer to it as per poly which makes a lot more sense if you think about it. Right?
Since Doom 3 and from what I've heard Halo uses this technology I would've thought Valve would be into it too, unless there's some performance reason for not using it. If they aren't I'd still think it might be something source could use in later games like Counter-Strike 2 or something.
All just assumptions though

I dont really see the point with per pixel for a game like HL2... Or Doom III for that matter. Of course, its always neat with new tech
Anyway, I still call "per polygon" hit as per-vertex, as the engine doesnt calculate the polygons, it calculate the vertices and draws the polygon. Not to mention, a "polygon" is very undefined. Or actually it isnt, its very defined, but it aint a triangle

 

[Gorgon]

I am a noob for this per pixel tech, can somebody explain to me what is it please?

 

[Animal]

Gorgon is back!

Oh, read the beginning of the thread to find out what it it.

 

[Wilco]

Originally posted by gamevoodoo
i'm looking forward to watch a rocket pass between ur legs and scare the shit out of u

Im looking forward to a rocket try to pass between ur legs, but be just a fraction to high.

Originally posted by DrEvil
Wow, per pixel! That sounds like overkill though. What would we use such accuracy for?

Threading the eye of a needle.
Obviously.

You could make a knitting mod, to appeal to the older generations.

 

[Gorgon]

this is cool.

 

[Xei]

Originally posted by dawdler
I dont really see the point with per pixel for a game like HL2... Or Doom III for that matter. Of course, its always neat with new tech
Anyway, I still call "per polygon" hit as per-vertex, as the engine doesnt calculate the polygons, it calculate the vertices and draws the polygon. Not to mention, a "polygon" is very undefined. Or actually it isnt, its very defined, but it aint a triangle

Makes sense and it does seem more accurate than is actually needed, it'd be kinda cool knowing you really did hit something with your aim rather than being lucky and clipping the edge of a hitbox but if there's good reason not to use it I doubt it'll make a huge difference to the gameplay.

 

[Guest]

I remember that sofII advertised "per pixel" hit detection in its single player.......

imagine per-giga-pixel eh thats just completely unecisary

 

[ValVed RaY]

a lot of games have that, planetside has it, some other game did cant remember the damn name..
yeah hl2 will have it

 

[MaDMaXX]

Gorgon, you don't *HAVE* to post every little noise you make you know :/

 

[Gunner]

Such accuracy is welcomed by pro-gamers. And I'm not referring to myself I'm talking about zEx or SK for example.

 

[FictiousWill]

Originally posted by DrEvil
Wow, per pixel! That sounds like overkill though. What would we use such accuracy for?

[1990] What? 800x600? That resolution is so large as to be rediculous! What use would it have for gaming?

 

[Ridic]

If this system is true for hl2 or doom3 it means someone could make an uber realism mod. Id perfer a realism ww2 mod but in any case it would be possible. You could actually have heart hitboxes, besides the chest hitboxes. Neck hitboxes, not an instant kill but you die bleeding to death. Head, stomach, liver it would all work :cheers:

 

[JtM]

If you've ever played SoF2 you would notice that shooting enemies in an armor protected part of their body would be less effective than, lets say, everywhere else. This is an example of per-pixel hit detection. This comes in handy for applying blood decals and having armor protected body parts. Per poly would be more limited but you can still have defined regions (head, neck, legs, arms torso) that react differently.

Btw: The difference between finding whether or not a ray intersects with a polygon and where it intersects isn't very big (just a bit more maths).

I don't think that the term "per-pixel" has anything to do with the resolution your playing the game in either.

:cheers:

 

[Ro@cH]

JtM: excellent post. I was talking to my dad about the per-poly vs per-pixel system, and we also came to the conclusion that it would be great to have per-pixel if you have armored enemies. But, it could just as well be achieved by upping the polycount on models, thus making redundant polygons to define the borders of armored/non armored parts of the body more accurately. Having perfectly accurate blood decals also requires per-pixel hit-detection.

A problem with per pixel or per poly hit-detection is that the accurate damage system that is easily achieved with hitboxes is a bit more tricky. If a bullet hits the 'head' hitbox, it's a headshot (high damage). If it hits an arm hitbox, it's an arm shot (low damage). If you barely skim a polygon or pixel of the head of the model, is it still a headshot? The accuracy and realism that per-pixel hit detection provides is counter-acted by the fact that a bullet that skims the model's ear by a millimeter is counted as a headshot, which isn't realistic.

 

[Murray_H]

what would be cool is what someone else already said - code into the engine the different bodyparts and then have them react to the bullet. What could also be good (but for games where system requirements dont matter) is to model the body from the whole skeleton upwards, with like muscles, skin, bones and organs and then possibly 'filling' the body up with 6 litres of blood. May be a bit excessive, but it sure would look bloody realistic when someone gets shot - bullet shatters part of the ribcage, into the heart, loads of blood drains out

A headshot would look absolutely disgusting

 

[Ridic]

Originally posted by Murray_H
what would be cool is what someone else already said - code into the engine the different bodyparts and then have them react to the bullet. What could also be good (but for games where system requirements dont matter) is to model the body from the whole skeleton upwards, with like muscles, skin, bones and organs and then possibly 'filling' the body up with 6 litres of blood. May be a bit excessive, but it sure would look bloody realistic when someone gets shot - bullet shatters part of the ribcage, into the heart, loads of blood drains out

A headshot would look absolutely disgusting

:cheers:

 

[Prince of China]

Then, while the blood is spewing out, you can shoot that stuff too!
It would be dynamic.

 

[Gunner]

Originally posted by Murray_H
what would be cool is what someone else already said - code into the engine the different bodyparts and then have them react to the bullet. What could also be good (but for games where system requirements dont matter) is to model the body from the whole skeleton upwards, with like muscles, skin, bones and organs and then possibly 'filling' the body up with 6 litres of blood. May be a bit excessive, but it sure would look bloody realistic when someone gets shot - bullet shatters part of the ribcage, into the heart, loads of blood drains out

A headshot would look absolutely disgusting

Basically you'd like to have a gory festival of gibs and chunks, well I'm all for it

Imagine using the knife on someone's throat, I can feel the evil rushing inside of me right now Mouahhaha! The crowbar would also produce some horrifying scenes as well.

 

[FoB_Ed]

what about a large wrench or a war axe that would be pretty messy