Put the Saruman scene back into the Return of the King Petition

Kadayi

Kadayi

Newbie
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
6,034
Reaction score
0
http://www.petitiononline.com/smanrotk/petition.html

If you don't know, apparently Peter Jackson has cut Christopher Lee (sarumans) final scenes out of the cinematic print of the Return of the King to save 7 minutes off the time. So the only way you'll be able to see them is if you fork out for the supa expensive DVD collectors edition when it appears half a year down the road.

Needless to say a lot of people think this would be a tragic mistake, especially given that saruman is the most visible Bad guy in the whole trilogy. So if you give a damn then visit the site and sign the petition.

Kadayi
 
Oh, so the total could have been 6 hours 7 minutes, but now it'll just be 6 hours?
 
LOL, I expect the Cinematic release to be about 2.5 hours long. It's an important scene in the story because it ends Sarumans story arch, not to include it would be a grave mistake for the sake of 7 minutes.
 
It's likely too late to change much, but i signed it anyways since I want more for my final ticket price.
 
wow, this has got to be one of the fastest growing pettitons i've ever seen.

nerds :D

nah, I signed too.
 
If enough fuss is made (which hopefully will be) then things will change.
 
Oh shit, this would've been the perfect thread to make my first post:

"You have my sword"
 
You know Peter Jackson has dont a superb job with the Trilogy thus far, and Christopher Lee is one of the biggest Tolkien fans in the world, I doubt they would do it unjustice. If it was taken out then that means the film could allow that, otherwise both Jackson and Lee would have made sure to include it.
 
I really have to point out that nothing is more worthless than an internet petition. Especially since the movie is already done.
That said why in hell why dont we watch the film before we start demanding stuff?
 
the DVD isn't expensive...it's like $25 from amazon.com

and they can't put that scene back in now...it's too late in the production cycle...

it's not necessary to put it in the film. people who haven't read the books already know what happens to saruman, so in order to get the film to an acceptable length they have to be brutal in what they cut...hence the need (and market) for the extended editions.

it's only necessary since you already know the story...but then you already know the story...so if you want to see it on film, rent or buy the extended version.

if you're already going to buy the non-extended version, why not spend the extra $5-7?
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
LOL, I expect the Cinematic release to be about 2.5 hours long. It's an important scene in the story because it ends Sarumans story arch, not to include it would be a grave mistake for the sake of 7 minutes.
Click to expand...

why don't you wait until you see what was left in in favor of it before judging it? i agree it's an important scene, but they must've tied saruman up in some other way.
 
His death scene wasnt cut to save time. The man himself, P.J., explained it all in an e-mail and his explination is more than reasonable.

Sarumans death should have been included in Two Towers, but they just didnt have the time for it. They intended to have it included at the start of ROTK, but since Saruman has no part in the ROTK story at all it just didnt flow with the movies pace. Most movie goers will be fine with it since they will figure the threat of Saruman came to an end after the battle at Helms Deep. Jackson Himself, after reviewing the theatrical cut during editing, felt it would be better for the flow of ROTK if it didnt include the death of Saruman.

It wasnt cut to save time, it was a conscious decision made by Jackson to improve the quality of the theatrical release. These things like Sarumans death, which are counter-productive to the flow of the movie itself, are and should be saved for the extended DVD.


No matter how many signatures you get on a petition, Jackson has creative control over which scenes fit and which dont. And since he knows more about his movie than any of you, leave it to him to make the right decisions. Hes done a fantastic job so far, have faith in him.
 
Lee only just found out about the cut himself, he's not particularly impressed either. He certainly wasn't consulted on the matter. Also if the scene was supposed to be in TTT then how come it doesn't feature in the forthcoming Collectors edition for that film? Sounds like a case of backtracking.
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
Lee only just found out about the cut himself, he's not particularly impressed either. He certainly wasn't consulted on the matter. Also if the scene was supposed to be in TTT then how come it doesn't feature in the forthcoming Collectors edition for that film?
Click to expand...

actors are never consulted on editing...well i can't say never because it could've happened...but usually actors have no input whatsoever after filming.

he just explained why it's not on the TTT extended

if they thought at first they were going to include it in ROTK, but decided later that it wasn't going to fit, then there's your explanation.
 
Sorry, i was only saying that the scene should have been in Two Towers because it had a place in the story(since Two Towers was essintially about the struggle with Saruman). Im sure they would have included it in Two Towers if they had the time, but they always planned on it being in ROTK. But after reviewing the theatrical cut of ROTK during editing, Jackson felt the Saruman scene was counter-productive to the flow of the movie. So its gone. Jackson knows what he is doing.
 
Originally posted by Maskirovka
he just explained why it's not on the TTT extended
Click to expand...

He was referring to the original TTT film, not the extended DVD edition.
 
Originally posted by EvilEwok2.0
Jackson knows what he is doing.
Click to expand...

agreed...imo, everything that has been cut really wasn't necessary to the main storyline, which is all a film has time for. the books are excellent because they are so rich and full of side-plots and middle-earth history...movies don't have time for that.

it isn't necessary for the average moviegoer to see saruman's staff broken and things like that...sure it'd be nice, but unnecessary. they kinda tied it up in TTT showing him sadly surveying the destruction the river Isen caused...imo that's enough for the average person.

and it's enough for me too, since i already know what happens in the books...i'll be satisfied to see it in the extended DVD, which i plan on buying anyway.
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
He was referring to the original TTT film, not the extended DVD edition.
Click to expand...

yes, but the extended TTT was finished before they finished editing ROTK.
 
Originally posted by Maskirovka
yes, but the extended TTT was finished before they finished editing ROTK.
Click to expand...

He's had 3 years to think on that scene and it's location in the films. If it was that much of a sore thumb stand out it could easily of been dealt with.
 
If you put Saruman back into Return of the King, it wouldn't be Return of The King, the movies are based on the books.
 
Originally posted by Tredoslop
If you put Saruman back into Return of the King, it wouldn't be Return of The King, the movies are based on the books.
Click to expand...

shelob is going to be in ROTK, but she was in the TTT book.
boromir died in the TTT book, and at the end of the fellowship movie.
 
Maybe they're keeping him alive for the sequel:

Lord of the Rings 2: Saruman's Revenge!

Tagline:
Saruman's back, and he's takin' no flak!
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
He's had 3 years to think on that scene and it's location in the films. If it was that much of a sore thumb stand out it could easily of been dealt with.
Click to expand...

not everything in a huge production like this goes as smoothly as you make it out to be. have you ever managed something that huge?

neither have i, but putting a presentation together for a class is hard enough...i can't even imagine all the stuff that goes into making a trilogy of this magnitude...there are going to be some quirks and mistakes...they might suck, but the petition isn't gonna solve anything.

and they're putting it in the extended edition...what more do you really want? i'm sure new line cinema pressured jackson into making the movies under a certain length...he's just making the tough decisions you have to make in the editing room.

just wait till you see the movie before you pass judgement :\
 
Originally posted by Mechagodzilla
Maybe they're keeping him alive for the sequel:

Lord of the Rings 2: Saruman's Revenge!

Tagline:
Saruman's back, and he's takin' no flak!
Click to expand...

LMAO, :laugh:

Talking of sequels, I wonder if there are any plans to actually make the Hobbit.
 
Originally posted by Maskirovka
just wait till you see the movie before you pass judgement :\
Click to expand...

And if I go and see it and decide that it sucks cock because they didn't wrap up the saruman issue, I guess you can refund me the cinema ticket ok? :dozey:

I put a link up here to the petition for people nothing more. I'm not forcing you to sign it, so I don't really see your issue with it.
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
LOL, I expect the Cinematic release to be about 2.5 hours long. It's an important scene in the story because it ends Sarumans story arch, not to include it would be a grave mistake for the sake of 7 minutes.
Click to expand...

It'll be past three hours. :bounce: :bounce:
 
The issue with Saruman was wraped up when his forces were cut down at Helms Deep. Showing his death would add a bit of finality, but if it doesnt flow with ROTK then it should be saved for the extended DVD. Im sure his death will be mentioned in dialogue, so people will know that he did infact die. Its not necessary to interrupt the flow of the movie with a scene that doesnt fit in the story of ROTK.

The threat of Saruman was dealt with in Two Towers, its over. ROTK is about dealing with Sauron, Saruman doesnt have a place in it any longer since the scouring of the Shire will not be in the movie.

It wont ruin the movie, it will enhance the flow. This is the way Jackson feels, and given his work with the previous films im inclined to trust his judgement.
 
Originally posted by Kadayi Polokov
And if I go and see it and decide that it sucks cock because they didn't wrap up the saruman issue, I guess you can refund me the cinema ticket ok? :dozey:

I put a link up here to the petition for people nothing more. I'm not forcing you to sign it, so I don't really see your issue with it.
Click to expand...

my issue is that your expectations are unrealistic...hence my repeated points regarding that issue.

unrealistic expectations are what ruins movies for people...they expect one thing but get something else. furthermore, you expect the scene to be put back in the movie after it's finished.

they didn't take the scene out to screw you and make you buy the extended edition in order to be satisfied...jackson edited the movie so that it would comply with new line cinema's restrictions on time. you should feel lucky that the extended editions have so much extra footage...1/2 hour is quite a lot considering most DVDs have a few "deleted scenes" that are terrible and/or unfinished scenes with original audio, no music, etc.

if not having this saruman scene is gonna ruin the movie for you, i suggest you avoid the theater and wait for the extended edition DVD so you don't waste your money.
 
I dont think they took it out to save time. That was an early rumor when this whole thing started, that New Line was forcing Jackson to remove it due to time restraints. Here is what P.J. had to say on the situation, come to your own conclusions.....

Saruman thing you describe is a muddle of half-truths.

We have decided to save the Saruman sequence for the DVD. It's a great little scene. 7 mins long. Chris is wonderful, as usual. Brad is in about 6 shots. It was a film maker decision - nothing to do with the studio.

The problem is that the sequence was originally shot for The Two Towers, as it is in the book. Since The Two Towers couldn't sustain a 7 min "wrap" after Helm's Deep, we thought it would be a good idea to save it for the beginning of the Return of the King. The trouble is, when we viewed various ROTK cuts over the last few weeks, it feels like the first scenes are wrapping last year's movie, instead of starting the new one. We felt it got ROTK off to an uncertain beginning, since Saruman plays no role in the events of ROTK (we don't have the Scouring later, as the book does), yet we dwell in Isengard for quite a long time before our new story kicks off.

We reluctantly made the decision to save this sequence for the DVD. The choice was made on the basis that most people will assume that Saruman was vanquished by the Helm's Deep events, and Ent attack. We can now crack straight into setting up the narrative tension of ROTK, which features Sauron as the villian.

It was a very similar situation to last year when we decided to take a nice Boromir/Denethor flashback out of The Two Towers, and put it in the DVD. It was causing us pacing problems in the theatrical version, but with the Extended Cut just coming out now, fans can see this great little scene. Thank God for DVD, since it does mean that a version of the movie, which has different pacing requirements, can be released later. The Saruman sequence will definately be a highlight of the Extended ROTK DVD.

We have a lot of great DVD material this time around. As we crafted the movie, we reduced it from an over 4 hour running time, down to 3.12 (without credits - about 8 mins long). This was done by us. There were no studio cutting notes. We now have a movie with a pace that fells ok for it's theatrical release. One more week to go. We are nearly there. Will we still be standing? It's going to be a close run thing.

Cheers,

Peter J
Click to expand...
 
how can you come to any other conclusion unless you think he's lying? that explains everything right there
 
I think the movie will be very long. I think it'll be about 3 hours or more. They have a lot left to cover.

That stinks that that scene is out, but I plan to get the extended version when it comes out. Fellowship extended version was like $30...so I don't have a problem with it.
 
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...1663/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_11_2/202-1299278-6757434

Hmm don't you yanks get the 5 disc version? We have 2 versions available, the 4 disc and the 5 disc. The 5 disc has a whole DVD dedicated to the creation and development of Gollum, as well as a flaky statuette of the ugly little SOB and booklet showing the concept sketches. Personally it seems like a bit of a cash in 'go large!!' type affair (especially the price hike), but I'd be a bit steamed if I bought the 4 disc and found nothing on them about Gollum.
 
i know there's a collector's edition and a extended edition...

the extended is just the movie and bonus crap...the collector's has extra stuff like bookends (for fellowship)

both have 4 discs...and so does the product you linked to on the .co.uk amazon site.
 
ROTK will be exactly 3.3 Hours without the 7Min
 
Well with the fellowship collectors you just got the bookends and a booklet (so it's missable), but with this collectors you get the extra DVD disc about gollum (see under the extras) which might make it unmissable if your a completist.
 
I'm gonna pick up the one without the gollum stuff...I'm gonna blow enough time watching the rest of it anyway. :D
 
if you watvhed all the films in a row it would be about 9 hours!!!

something to do on a sunday i guess.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

morgs
The Hobbit - Part 1
5 6 7
Replies
242
Views
23K
ríomhaire
ríomhaire
Maxi
  • Locked
The 76th Oscar Academy Awards® - Winners list
Replies
2
Views
808
The Dark Elf
The Dark Elf
xcellerate
fun facts for the day
Replies
22
Views
2K
Bad^Hat
Bad^Hat
waedoe
[WIP] movie review ROTK, need feed back and stuff.
Replies
5
Views
726
RoyalEF
RoyalEF
Back
Top