Random Multiplayer Maps

Straylight

Straylight

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First let me just say that this is for the most part compleatly unsubstantiated speculation. That said, I was thinking that this multiplayer stuff they are keeping quiet about might be (or include) randomized multiplayer maps.

As far as I know, no FPS has pulled this off successfully but I find myself hopeing that Valve might. It's really irritating when when people know a map too well and the only way around this is to randomize them. It sucks when people figure out in CS that you can rush somewhere and shoot through a wall and probbly score hits on the other team moving into position.

In large outdoor maps (which we can assume there will be plenty) the problem is worse. If anyone has played America's Army they probbly noticed people firing the MG and the nades blindly into fog because they know exactly where to aim to hit a hill or window and getting kills without ever seeing a person.

Random maps would fix all that and if done well. You could again hope to sneak up on people and find sniper postions that everyone hasn't already memorized.

I don't have much hope of this but it seems exactly the type of quirky thing Valve might spend 5 years getting to work and some of the previews mention a "prefab factory" in the map tool that includes whole buildings. Such a factory would seem to lend it self to a AI map creator and AI is one of their strong points. It just seems similar to the idea of automatic lip syncing and their general reliance on AI over scripting this time.

What do you all think?

-Straylight
 
hmmm, you know I think you could be onto it, but If so it'd have to be well coded so that it turns out properly unlike the SOF2 one, which was honestly, total and utter C***!!!
 
The problem is, good, balanced map design doesn't just happen, randomly.
 
Yes, and it ends up looking stupid, because the textures don't go correctly, between the joined objects etc... hmmm, oh well, you never know they might of pulled it off

/me crosses fingers, toes, eyes, legs, arms and other things in hope
 
The old X-Com way would be best: little modules which get assembled in random order to produce a different map each time you play.

Of course it'd require a little more complexity than X-Com's square modules but it could be done with each map having a set number of bunkers/buildings and the server creates each map before play from prefab parts: start with a rolling landscape of a certain shape using the desert texture set - thinks up the connectivity layout and chokepoint locations (figure 8, open area, circular map) - places spawn points at opposite ends - add a prefab bunker here, a building there (textures matching the lanscape), places powerups and weapons - finally checking to see if there's any errors that might crop up.

Server then informs each client as to the layout and the map loads. If it's a fast enough server the waiting time might not be too long...

You'd get know each landscape of course but the placement of items, bunkers, etc., would change the way it's played each time -- which is the whole point of the exercise as it stops people learning maps to the degree mentioned -- everyone starts as a noob on each map with there being no chance of prior knowledge. Oh, it'd be unbalanced for sure, but then the skill would lie in recognising where the best areas are and taking advantage of that ingame rather than practising the same map over and over beforehand -- rewarding the quick thinkers and hopefully resulting in a more fluid gamestyle.
 
I don't like the whole idea of random maps. The more you play, the more strategies you develop for a certain map. Thats what makes it interesting.
 
Originally posted by Straylight
It sucks when people figure out in CS that you can rush somewhere and shoot through a wall and probbly score hits on the other team moving into position.
Click to expand...

Well, most games don't allow you to shoot through four foot concrete walls like in CS, and I'm sure HL2DM won't either.
 
I'm kind of on the against side on this one. Good maps are well thought out and executed. People tend to like to play good maps. Even if there was a random map generator that could spit out hundreds of mediocre maps, I don't think that I or quite or few others would really play it.
 
Whilst a random map generator would be possible, there really isn't any indication at all that it will be featured in HL2. What would be neat & much easier would be to have a standard map, but randomize small pieces of cover, like crates and randomize items, to prevent stragies that revolve around gaurding a powerup (quad daamage campers anyone?).
 
As someone said, Soldier of fortune 2 did this, I have yet to try it out, is it porly coded ?
 
Originally posted by snark^
The old X-Com way would be best: little modules which get assembled in random order to produce a different map each time you play.

Of course it'd require a little more complexity than X-Com's square modules but it could be done with each map having a set number of bunkers/buildings and the server creates each map before play from prefab parts: start with a rolling landscape of a certain shape using the desert texture set - thinks up the connectivity layout and chokepoint locations (figure 8, open area, circular map) - places spawn points at opposite ends - add a prefab bunker here, a building there (textures matching the lanscape), places powerups and weapons - finally checking to see if there's any errors that might crop up.

Server then informs each client as to the layout and the map loads. If it's a fast enough server the waiting time might not be too long...

You'd get know each landscape of course but the placement of items, bunkers, etc., would change the way it's played each time -- which is the whole point of the exercise as it stops people learning maps to the degree mentioned -- everyone starts as a noob on each map with there being no chance of prior knowledge. Oh, it'd be unbalanced for sure, but then the skill would lie in recognising where the best areas are and taking advantage of that ingame rather than practising the same map over and over beforehand -- rewarding the quick thinkers and hopefully resulting in a more fluid gamestyle.
Click to expand...

I guess this was more or less what I was thinking about but I had in mind like set pieces of indoor with many doors/vents that had connection points that were either connected to another preset piece or closed. This way it wouldn't be ugly with mismatched textures. It would be unbalanced but hes right, no one would have time to realise and exploit it too badly and you'd have to be quick to figure it out. Besides, sometimes you just fight at a disadvantage. So what? IMO it's worth the unbalance and the not perfect map layout.

-Straylight
 
I understand where you're coming from, but maps that are thouroughly tested and balanced will always play better than any random map generator. As far as your example with AA, with more open-ended maps you have the option of picking a different direction. If there's a spot that people can fire on knowing that you're probably there, then don't be. Find another way to your target location. That's the beauty of this new engine if you ask me. More open area/outdoor maps where there are multiple routes to any destination. To me there's something to be said for the player that learns a map well enough that he can predict where the enemy will be located.
 
Random generated maps will never be as great and playable as the maps made by hand.
 
Well, those people who remember SoFII's Random Map generator will be shuddering about now..... it's the reason that I uninstalled SoFII (that and the stupidly long loading times)
 
Sorry but I seriously doubt random generated maps will be a possibility in HL2, it's just not the right engine.
 
random maps would be awesome, but theyd have to be pre made, and alot of them, to ensure balance will still be there, and theres enough variety so u cant memorize the maps
 
Originally posted by mrBadger
Well, those people who remember SoFII's Random Map generator will be shuddering about now..... it's the reason that I uninstalled SoFII (that and the stupidly long loading times)
Click to expand...

I still play SOF2 multiplayer. and i still enjoy it. but i never play on the RMG maps (Random Map Generated). those maps suck.. and is filled with snipers. no fun. but the other maps are fun. HK2, Shop 2 and Chamchatka Depot 5. and the M60 0wnz. escpecially on shop2
 
whos gonna hit 900 1st...badger or evil, my bets on eviil
 
were hitting 1000 together :p.....

I did have SoF2 on madness detail.... and the loading was too long for me... longer than 2 min :(
 
u think u guys could wait for me? i can get there in about 5 hours
 
You should of played Serious Sam 2: The Second Encounter on a Voodoo 3 card... It took 1/2 hour for it to load just a quick save ... ;(
 
serious sam. lmao that game is so lame, but its funny as hell
 
Originally posted by guinny
u think u guys could wait for me? i can get there in about 5 hours
Click to expand...

5 hours! 5 HOURS! How much spam would you ahve to do for that. Theres no point trying to get there if you spam your way.
 
well i can create a thread in an abandoned section and just type to myself lol
 
Originally posted by guinny
u think u guys could wait for me? i can get there in about 5 hours
Click to expand...

lol.. I wouldnt be suprised

edit: and the goal was to reacht the 1000post's well earned because most off the post's are helpfull comments . maby 5% is spam. So we wont spam for it. and I suggest you do the same (unless you want to get banned by Munro or Starmonkey)
 
Heh, an abandoned section. Sounds like this place is some sort of building complex and has been up for years slowly becoming derelict with parts being condemned and forgotten.
 
Originally posted by guinny
serious sam. lmao that game is so lame, but its funny as hell
Click to expand...

That was why the game was so great, you got to blast everything and then had DUKE NUKEM style cheesy coments, and the secrets rocked :p
 
Originally posted by EVIL
Random generated maps will never be as great and playable as the maps made by hand.
Click to expand...

No. Side by side they would not be but the fact that everyone hasn't memorized them would make up for it if you could get them good enough. At least in my opinion.

-Straylight
 
OR have a supercomputer than thinks and learns for itself, it would have the intelligence of a nuclear scientist, the creative drive of an architect and the ingenuity and originality of a street mime... and would work precisely 15 baGILLION times more efficiently than your average human being. Servers would run wild with glee as players taunted one another - "l33t!" they would say, "hax!" and "PWN!" and "no more candy for mr bub bub" and chocolate would run down gutters of streets and the homeless would live full and rich lives with no added sugar... but just think of the potential audience!!!!!!!!

OMG I think I LOST A PENNY.





AAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry... I'm tired, and I just watched 'Freddy got fingered', which is by and large the most I have laughed... and cried... and questioned my own sanity in a while so SHIT if I don't just blow up right now and yeah also I just need two more posts for goodgood level so BE GONE EVIL ASDDDDDDDASJLKDBNKJDA
 
I think Freddy Got Fingered killed quite a few of your brain cells :)
But seriously, random maps would add alot to gameplay, since it would require players to come up with new and original strategies every time they play multiplayer. It would also be much more realistic, since in real life, soldiers almost never fight in the same place twice, thus forcing them to adapt to their environment.
If anyone could pull off random fps maps, I think Valve is our best bet.
 
hmm.. I havnt looked at it in that way. and lol @ Bad^Hat
 
When you say nuclear scientist..... Do you mean the kind who has had one to many curries or one who is clever?
 
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