recoil?

PriNcE oF SpAcE

PriNcE oF SpAcE

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hmmmm one thing that looks dissapointing is that it seems that HL2 will have no realistic recoil, but the same old "Cone spray" that HL1 did... :(

I always thought that was kinda a lame...maybe because I've gotten used to CS...or well...pretty much every other friggin game out there...

I dunno I think it's way cooler when your movement affects your aim etc. since it makes it a little more strategic rather than going gun ho and also adds to the immersion IMO. also it seems rather pointless for that MP7 to be able to zoom when you only approximitly hit where you aim...(actually that MP7 seems rather pointless, but I think that's a whole other thread)
 
I agree, it feels wierd to just press a button and see every bullet hit the target without any kind of recoil..it's a flaw, the level of realism decreases a bit...
I'm not saying it has to be as much recoil as in counter-strike, but it just looks wierd without one :borg:

-Skull
 
Of course there is always the possibility that they are going to have it, but did not have it implemented yet for the videos.
 
Originally posted by Skull
I agree, it feels wierd to just press a button and see every bullet hit the target without any kind of recoil..it's a flaw, the level of realism decreases a bit...
I'm not saying it has to be as much recoil as in counter-strike, but it just looks wierd without one :borg:

-Skull
Click to expand...

I think it's worse that it doesn't hit where you aim...and just spray in that ridicolous cone, no matter your stance or wether not you're moving...

I'm hoping they will ad some recoil to the game...or at least make it an difficulty option or something...
 
I'm hoping they will ad some recoil to the game...or at least make it an difficulty option or something...
Click to expand...
Good idea ! Like:
Easy: "no recoil"
Medium: "small recoil"
Difficullt: "cs recoil"

...or something like it :D of course, without the description..

-Skull
 
a simple "recoil on" & "recoil off" would do it for me...

I really just hate that lame "spray cone"
 
Counter-strike's recoil system is still a spray cone but with the added effect of the screen moving upwards....
 
uhm...no

CS you hit pretty much were you aim if you shoot a single shot...and if you keep shooting the weapons will have different spread pattern(but most simply go up)...but it's never a consistant cone.

the HL Mp5 and HL2 Mp7 seems to just have a consistant Spray-cone no matter you're stance and movement...which means that the weapon is just as accurate, and worse UNaccurate no matter your stance and movement.
 
Even if they don't add good recoil, maybe someone will release a small mod which is just like HL2, except with recoil.
 
lol, anything that could possibly end up being a technical problem with HL2 (like recoil) will end up being fixed by modders. That is so cool. :rolling:
 
Originally posted by PriNcE oF SpAcE
uhm...no

CS you hit pretty much were you aim if you shoot a single shot...and if you keep shooting the weapons will have different spread pattern(but most simply go up)...but it's never a consistant cone.

the HL Mp5 and HL2 Mp7 seems to just have a consistant Spray-cone no matter you're stance and movement...which means that the weapon is just as accurate, and worse still UNaccurate no matter your stance and movement. and you can really feel a difference...
Click to expand...

Hold your finger down on the fire button for a whole damn clip...

Spray cone... thnx
 
"spray cone" means that the weapon always shoots in a certain spray no matter the movement, stance, or rate of fire. CS weapons do not have a spray cone. shoot single shots, it goes where your crosshair is. hold the fire button down, it sprays in a much wider angle and accuracy is harder. this is not what a spray cone is. if it did have one, then, for example, if you were shooting at a wall, the pattern of spray would be the same regardless of movement stance or rate of fire.
 
sorry matt...it's democracy...2 vs. 1...you loose! :D

ps. we know what we're talking about.
 
*sigh*... Its still a damn spray cone no matter what conditions the programmers have placed on it.
 
Originally posted by |MaTT|
*sigh*... Its still a damn spray cone no matter what conditions the programmers have placed on it.
Click to expand...

nope...

cs recoil does not form or act like a cone...therefor it is not a "spray cone"

the term "spray cone" or "cone of fire" whatever it might be called is used to describe what both Sparky and I already explained...

a consistant spray pattern, no matter stance, movement or rate of fire...

cs does not have a consistant spray pattern....it got pure recoil.(and actually one of the best ones I've seen in a game)
 
Prince, it would still be considered a spray cone, as the bullets don't go EXACTLY where you fire. If there were no spray cone, every single bullet would go in its place if you were standing/crouching/prone. Except, it doesn't. There's a CONE limitation around where you crosshair is aiming. If you go prone, and fire a clip at an area, assuming you can use your mouse so that it counters the recoil, there will still be a cone of fire it shoots between. It's just that recoil is added in, as well. Essentially, every single game has a cone of fire, just certain games have more obvious ones than others.

-Vert
P.S. Excuse my somewhat garbled english...no sleep in three days will do that...
 
Also keep in mind that it was a demo and the crosshair might not have responded correctly. Personally I can't see enough impacts to tell if there is any kick on the guns or not.

-Straylight
 
Granted the first few shots will be on target but once that recoil kicks in its a damn spray cone with certain conditions.

etc..

is player moving?

Yes ---- widen spray cone

No ---- use normal spray cone

is player ducking?

Yes ---- use smaller spray cone

No ---- use normal spray cone

Is player jumping....

and so on...

My idea of a system that does not invole a cone of spray would mean that the bullets always go in the direction that the weapon is facing. The crosshair would stay in the center of the screen but upon each shot of the weapon there would be a recoil action which would make the weapon model move both vertically and slightly in the laterally direction. With the weapon now pointing slightly upwards another shot should go in the exact direction the weapon barrel is facing which would be slightly above where the crosshair is. This second shot would also give the weapon another recoil jolt making the barrel face in another direction. Another shot would fire in the direction the barrel is facing and give the weapon another jolt.

Probably the best recoil system i have ever encountered in a game existed in operation flashpoint. The game featured 2 crosshairs... One for where you were facing and another for where your weapon was facing. When you stood still both cross hairs would be in the same place on screen. When your character was running along the weapon would rock back and forth across the screen from left to right with the second crosshair showing exactly where the weapon was facing. Any shots during this time would go in the direction the barrel was pointing. I noticed during many scenes in the HL2 movie that the weapon model has a ceratin amount of lateral and vertical movement so im hoping the do introduce a similar system to what i mentioned.
 
There we go. Matt said it better than I ever could have in my half-dead state. On another note, Operation Flashpoint was a great game, with a very good recoil system, IMO. I forgot all about that, and yes I hope HL2 has a similar system as well. Yeah...this was a pointless post.

-Vert
 
how about you go shooting, then you comment on CS's recoil system.

it's pretty dodgy.
 
Ive shot glocks before... now those are some damn nice pistols... not like in CS :angel:
 
Not to get into a gun debate, but...Glocks, in my opinion, are much more a versatile gun than a power gun. I would take a SIG over a Glock any day...Namely, a P226 or P229. Anyway, yeah. Back on topic...

-Vert
 
I love pistols, Im a big fan... and they always get the raw deal in vid games.

if you ask my I would rather be toting my glock or an inox than an mp5 etc.
the problem is, since the dawn of fps there has been a "power" system, (introduced by ID) where your initial inventory is useless, and your weapons become more potent as you progress.
while this is a great idea, why not have an effective arsenal and more foreboding and intelligent enemies instead.
anywhoo pistols are considered a last resort in most fps, I hate this.
thats why I play the specialists ;) where realistic damage means 1-2 shots, and pistols deliver death as well as any mp5 :D
 
whether CS has spray cone or not will never change the fact that CS has the most retarded recoil system ever used in a game.

OH NO THE BULLETS ARE GOING ALL OVER THE PLACE LET'S AIM TO THE FLOOR SO WE WILL HIT THE GUY'S HEAD!!

...
 
lol, i agree with u there m8


i for one am fed up of people saying that CS is realistic in any way.
The aiming systems stupid to be honest. Operation flaspoint was the best. Iron sights all the way with gud recoil system. :)
CS oh look i am filling that awper wih lead from my mp5 from 10 meters away. huh. BANG, u died. riiiiiight thats realistic. Well the awp bit is but i think the mp5 mighta killed him dont u. ;)
 
ur right, cs did have a non-realistic recoil system. Bullets just went up (varies with weapons) and didn't follow any trajectory but kinda randomly pecked at places within a certain radius.

AK47 is a perfect example. Also, the bullet decals did not reflect where the bullet actually went.
 
Originally posted by ub3rbr0k3
but kinda randomly pecked at places within a certain radius.
Click to expand...
AKA... Spray cone! :naughty:
 
In the demo where he is shooting at the Combine covering Barney it looks like there is some recoil, but maybe that was just the player not aiming properly :D

Personally I wouldn't mind whether there was recoil or not, but if there is I'd rather an Operation Flashpoint style rather than CS or to a lesser extent DoD where you can get all the shots into the same place by just dragging the mouse down.

That said, I think the essence of Half Life gameplay was that there was no recoil, it was just fast paced killing without having to worry too much about where your shots were going. It wouldn't have been the same if you had to crouch or go prone to get your shots to hit the target. I know I'd rather be jumping around with grenade launchers, lasers and machine guns for that sort of game :)
 
Trivia

Here is some trivia for you guys.
Q: Does CS use a spray cone?
A: Yes it does, only modified.

No, no im sorry...the correct answer is who gives a s***!
 
Have you ever tried strafing in cs? Personally I love it, but the thing is you can't really start running left to right, right to left etc in a gunfight when you've got heavy guns and gear and such on you. Would be damn silly! So anyways, cs isn't realistic, at all. Another example you usually have to shoot two to three BURSTS in to a guys head/chest -area to actually kill him. Oh yeah and usually the guy is crouching and you're a couple of "meters" away.
and blaablaablaablaa
 
You should also consider the fact that there is a fine line between realistic and fun. This is something that all game designers have to be careful of when they make any game that attempts to achieve some sort of realism.

CS, for instance, has it's realistic points and it's non-realistic points. Mostly, it seems they have achieved a fair balance between the two; they keep enough realism to provide an unusal and interesting gaming experience, but also include some non-realistic things that may have otherwise crippled the gameplay. They must have done something right, since CS is currently the most played online game.

Operation Flashpoint, for another example, ventures deeper into the area of realism than most games do. In that respect, there are times where the game can be a bit too realistic, and not much fun (i.e., when your legs are shot up and you're stuck crawling around in the middle of nowhere). There's also good points to be noticed of OpFlash's realism, like being able to shoot the driver in a vehicle through the windsheild, or maybe just shooting out the tires. It's really a lot of fun knowing you have such a variety of options to take out the enemy, and definetly shows the benefits of realism.

The point here is, however, that too much or too little realism could rather be a choice on the designer's part. If CS were more realistic (which may not be possible in some ways, regarding HL's aging engine), it's gameplay may have suffered. Extensive testing is usually done to refine and tweak the gameplay and make sure that there is a comfortable balance between realism and fun.

So, keep that in mind when you consider a certain game's realism (or the lack thereof).
 
sorry to inform you, but CS'es balance system is the most absurd system you can think of.

the only way you can win is getting one of the 4 rifles. that's bloody it. you can't even think of a game less balanced than CS. and don't even get me started on the money system.

I dare you to say "THEY BALANCED IT WITH MONEY!!! YOU SEE AK COSTS MORE THAN MP5 YOU F00L!".
 
Hmmm i owned a whole team once with nothing more than a mac 10 + p228 to start with and i picked up a tmp later. Phatty phat phat!
 
Well, I would have to say that Ghost Recon is the most realistic game out there. I know, I know, you don't see your weapon, but that doesn't make a difference when it comes to realism.

The movement, weapon behaviours in terms of aim are very real. The only concern that I have would be there isn't really recoil at all, except for the blooming crosshair.
 
Hmm, now I'd rather they left recoil similar to what it was in Half Life - realism is one thing, but excessive realism in a game like single player Half Life would ruin the gameplay. Besides, I expect that if they did make it as "realistic" as possible there would be always be someone complaining about crap like jumping / strafing and shooting and still getting kills. Just look at DoD, I think some of the people playing that won't be happy until most of the weapons can't actually hit anything.
 
Originally posted by famas_man
DoD recoil is the best recoil in halflife mods.
CS recoil makes me sick
Click to expand...

You sir will come to heaven :cheers:
 
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