Remember no russian. (MW2 Spoiler warning)

[KagePrototype]

specifically you, samon.

ps I'm suprised so many people care about the single-player so much, multiplayer is the only reason to even pay attention to this game!

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Single player is the only reason I pay attention to it.

 

[<RJMC>]

Did you even play the first MW to the end? The last level? With the crashing Jeeps, exploding gas trucks and bridge shootout. You didn't think that was over the top? The sequel does nothing that the end of the original didn't do. The MW games are going for a different type experience. The original CoD games had to try to be at least a little authentic to the actual battles. MW's story and level ideas are not restricted by this. To say that the sequel is silly to MGS proportions is ridiculous. There is nothing paranormal, it's all grounded in reality with a massive amount of over the top action. Which is no bad thing. You want reality go play Arma.

god dammed look at the plot of both games

we are not talking about paranormal stuff or robots is about the whole plot thing but probably you dont know the plot too and you go like everyone saying "dude ther is a vampire just wtf dude???"

like the whole thing of changing history and such,metal gear came whit that way back

just look at the intro monologue of mgs4 and compare it to sheperd monologue

 

[unozero]

scott needs to play some Raven Shield me thinks

 

[63]

specifically you, samon.

ps I'm suprised so many people care about the single-player so much, multiplayer is the only reason to even pay attention to this game!

Are you serious? The SP for both MW's has been fantastic.

 

[smwScott]

Did you even play the first MW to the end? The last level? With the crashing Jeeps, exploding gas trucks and bridge shootout. You didn't think that was over the top? The sequel does nothing that the end of the original didn't do. The MW games are going for a different type experience. The original CoD games had to try to be at least a little authentic to the actual battles. MW's story and level ideas are not restricted by this. To say that the sequel is silly to MGS proportions is ridiculous. There is nothing paranormal, it's all grounded in reality with a massive amount of over the top action. Which is no bad thing. You want reality go play Arma.

Of course I played it. Yeah, it was action packed and unrealistic. I also think I remember a level in the first CoD where you manned a machine gun on the back of a jeep as it drove like crazy around an airport (might have been MOH:AA). The difference is that it didn't completely cross the line of believability and into Pierce Brosnan era James Bond antics. Seriously, stop pretending like you don't see the difference.

And the MGS reference was due to the story:

Spoiler

Shepherd, a high-ranking US Army general, somehow got a random Private deep undercover with a Russian ultra-nationalist organization in a manner of days. He then leaked info to the terrorists that the agent was undercover, knowing that they would kill him and leave him as evidence - thus provoking a war.

The Russians, through largely unexplained methods (apparently one device holds the key to the entire US defense system), managed to sneak their entire army across the ocean. The US wasn't aware of anything until they were literally landing in DC.

Before we move on to his rationale - think about all the stupidity and leaps in logic all that shit entails.

Now ... his reasoning ... was to create more patriots. That's ****ing it.

That's precisely the kind of shit you see in a MGS story. As a matter of fact if I remember correctly the "Sons of Liberty" terrorist group in MGS2 wanted to EMP New York in order to subvert the puppet government and reinstate a genuine democracy. That's actually far less stupid (and yes, I know I'm glossing over a lot of stupid shit, but this isn't about MGS).

I actually didn't even hate the SP, it was pretty enjoyable. I was just severely disappointed because of the reasons I describe.

And yeah, Raven Shield was pretty damn good .

 

[Sparta]

Are you serious? The SP for both MW's has been fantastic.

The first one kicked ass. This one, while pretty good, doesn't have the same replay value as the first.

When I finished the first game, I went and played it again almost straight away. It was ace. When I finished this, I opened up the mission select tab to jump into a mission I wanted to play and could only see two or three out of... what... 15? that I actually wanted to go back and play again.

It's good, but it's very samey. and the first favella mission sucks.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I think both games are equally replayable.
I hope some cool combo deal comes out during xmas so I can get both of them. Highly unlikely though, they aren't valve.

 

[stemot]

god dammed look at the plot of both games

we are not talking about paranormal stuff or robots is about the whole plot thing but probably you dont know the plot too and you go like everyone saying "dude there is a vampire just wtf dude???"

like the whole thing of changing history and such,metal gear came whit that way back

just look at the intro monologue of mgs4 and compare it to shepard monologue

My point was that Call Of Duty is grounded in reality with bursts of Michael Bay over the top "KABOOM"ness. Metal Gear may have a similar plot, but the means it uses to accomplish it's plot are completely unrealistic, sci-fi garbage. MW while over the top garbage, is enjoyable and grounded in the fact that non of this stuff seems impossible in the world we live in today.

So yes, i know the plot, I would just rather a game that bases its self on the authenticity (read: not realism) of Military combat doesn't not have to use elements of the fantastical to do so. Sorry for any confusion.

Spoiler

Shepherd, a high-ranking US Army general, somehow got a random Private deep undercover with a Russian ultra-nationalist organization in a manner of days. He then leaked info to the terrorists that the agent was undercover, knowing that they would kill him and leave him as evidence - thus provoking a war.

The Russians, through largely unexplained methods (apparently one device holds the key to the entire US defence system), managed to sneak their entire army across the ocean. The US wasn't aware of anything until they were literally landing in DC.

Before we move on to his rationale - think about all the stupidity and leaps in logic all that shit entails.

Now ... his reasoning ... was to create more patriots. That's ****ing it.

You do realise

Spoiler

Shepard and Makarov were in on this together, which is how Shepard got Allen into Makarovs unit so quick, and obviously gave Makarov full knowledge of the plan. This is also why Shepard needed the data from Makarovs safehouse before he could betray him too. Why else do you think Makarov knew where Shepards base in Afghanistan was? If they weren't working together Makarov would have attacked it ages ago. Seems you understand the story less than you like to think. Also, the whole aspect of the device used to drop Americas defences was ripped straight from 24, but is not unbelievable when they do it?

Of course the story is over the top. I think your missing the point. My point, is that it never has to degenerate to MGS's levels of ridiculous plot points and mechanics to do this.

 

[Combine Hybrid]

I bet Kojima jizzed his pants while playing this game.

 

[Gargantou]

1. MGS rules, whilst it may be over the top, that doesn't necessarily make it bad, I suggest everyone to read the Metal Gear Solid novelization by an American author which was published less than a year ago, it shows very well how good and coherent MGS could be when penned by a good author, whilst still maintaining paranormal stuff.

2. Shepard was the general in charge of the US Task Force in the unnamed Arab nation in CoD4, he was pissed because as he says himself in MW2 "I lost 30,000 men in the blink of an eye and the world didn't even care" or something like that.

3. Vamp from MGS is not a vampire, but is in fact simply a cannibal induced with advanced nanomachines that quickly regenerates wounds etc.

 

[stemot]

1. MGS rules, whilst it may be over the top, that doesn't necessarily make it bad, I suggest everyone to read the Metal Gear Solid novelization by an American author which was published less than a year ago, it shows very well how good and coherent MGS could be when penned by a good author, whilst still maintaining paranormal stuff.

2. Shepard was the general in charge of the US Task Force in the unnamed Arab nation in CoD4, he was pissed because as he says himself in MW2 "I lost 30,000 men in the blink of an eye and the world didn't even care" or something like that.

3. Vamp from MGS is not a vampire, but is in fact simply a cannibal induced with advanced nanomachines that quickly regenerates wounds etc.

Oooh, interesting fact on number 3, didn't know that as I've never played past MGS 2, (not interested if they are not on PC) and that certainly makes him appear to be a Vampire. My other points about nonsensical sci-fi blub still stands though. (I'm talking up to MGS 2 here as I have no experience of the other two games, so they may not be filled with the "army of giant nuclear robots" plot points of the other two games. I don't know.)
Oh, and I never said the games were bad, I enjoyed the first and second games (more so the first). I was only saying that comparing the two series in terms of story is a little unfair. The overarching end goal of the story may be the same, but the steps they take to get there are completely different. I would deem MGS (from the first two games remember ) more of a sci-fi.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

1. MGS rules, whilst it may be over the top, that doesn't necessarily make it bad, I suggest everyone to read the Metal Gear Solid novelization by an American author which was published less than a year ago, it shows very well how good and coherent MGS could be when penned by a good author, whilst still maintaining paranormal stuff.

Hmmm.... I wanted to read that but I heard it wasn't that good, am I hearing wrong?

 

[jimbo118]

Didn't Kojima visit IW last year? Musta told them some stories.

 

[Darkangel]

1. MGS rules, whilst it may be over the top, that doesn't necessarily make it bad, I suggest everyone to read the Metal Gear Solid novelization by an American author which was published less than a year ago, it shows very well how good and coherent MGS could be when penned by a good author, whilst still maintaining paranormal stuff.

The MGS1 novel is complete and utter sh** compared to the game, the author pretty much rewrites Snake's personality. It also added some of the worst one-liners I've ever heard:

““Merry Christmas,” Snake said as he delivered two power-house punches, left and then right, into the guards’ faces. The soldiers plopped to the floor. “I forgot to tell you – Christmas is early this year.””

 

[Deleted member 56031]

wow just wow

 

[Eejit]

Story really does sound like a bad '24' fanfic.

 

[<RJMC>]

Oooh, interesting fact on number 3, didn't know that as I've never played past MGS 2, (not interested if they are not on PC) and that certainly makes him appear to be a Vampire. My other points about nonsensical sci-fi blub still stands though. (I'm talking up to MGS 2 here as I have no experience of the other two games, so they may not be filled with the "army of giant nuclear robots" plot points of the other two games. I don't know.)
Oh, and I never said the games were bad, I enjoyed the first and second games (more so the first). I was only saying that comparing the two series in terms of story is a little unfair. The overarching end goal of the story may be the same, but the steps they take to get there are completely different. I would deem MGS (from the first two games remember ) more of a sci-fi.

the robots are central to the story cuz they are weapons made to launch a nuclear warhead to any place,if you switched the robot for a big truck whit the same function the whole thing would be the same

and duh is sci fi but not star trek like sci fi

 

[smwScott]

You do realise

Spoiler

Shepard and Makarov were in on this together, which is how Shepard got Allen into Makarovs unit so quick, and obviously gave Makarov full knowledge of the plan. This is also why Shepard needed the data from Makarovs safehouse before he could betray him too. Why else do you think Makarov knew where Shepards base in Afghanistan was? If they weren't working together Makarov would have attacked it ages ago. Seems you understand the story less than you like to think. Also, the whole aspect of the device used to drop Americas defences was ripped straight from 24, but is not unbelievable when they do it?

Of course the story is over the top. I think your missing the point. My point, is that it never has to degenerate to MGS's levels of ridiculous plot points and mechanics to do this.

You didn't change the story I said at all, you just supplemented with more stuff that doesn't really help your case.

Spoiler

And for the record I don't think 24 is exactly the pinnacle of storytelling we should be shooting for, but even their implementation was better because it didn't result in a full-on ****ing Red Dawn style invasion. The way that happened and how they explained it was absurd, as I explained earlier.

I even specifically stated that Shepherd leaked Allen's involvement to Makarov.

But the point is that all this shit happened because of Shepherd's master plan to create patriots ... and that's retarded.

You really don't have ground to stand on here. Now you're accusing me of not understanding the story because I didn't fully flesh out certain sections of the synopsis, yet nothing you stated contradicted what I said.

The point here is unlike what you've said previously, MW2 is a big departure from previous CoD's. It is more ridiculous and far more stupid - and yes, like a Michael Bay movie. It isn't "modern warfare" at all. I don't like that.

If you do, that's cool - but you have to admit that this is the case.

 

[Asknoone]

Spoiler

Shepherd, a high-ranking US Army general, somehow got a random Private deep undercover with a Russian ultra-nationalist organization in a manner of days. He then leaked info to the terrorists that the agent was undercover, knowing that they would kill him and leave him as evidence - thus provoking a war.

The Russians, through largely unexplained methods (apparently one device holds the key to the entire US defense system), managed to sneak their entire army across the ocean. The US wasn't aware of anything until they were literally landing in DC.

Before we move on to his rationale - think about all the stupidity and leaps in logic all that shit entails.

Now ... his reasoning ... was to create more patriots. That's ****ing it.

Oh, wow, that's... that's terrible.

Are you serious? The SP for both MW's has been fantastic.

No.

 

[Direwolf]

I've seen the complaint about "sneaking an entire army across the globe" a few times, and while it's not the most plausible thing ever, it's not as ridiculous as some people may think. During the course of the invasion levels you see that the entire initial attack seems to have been orchestrated from the air, using paratroopers and light armored vehicles. While not all the details are provided by the game, the scenario seems to be that the Russians made a surprise attack from the air (probably by flying over the ice cap). The US's (and probably NATO) long range detection satellites are offline for plot reasons, and the briefing you see is what happens when the attack force first shows up on radar on the eastern seaboard.

You see more substantial forces later (such as attack helicopters), and they might have been brought by ship after the initial attack, or unloaded from further cargo planes once they could land.

 

[stemot]

You didn't change the story I said at all, you just supplemented with more stuff that doesn't really help your case.

Spoiler

And for the record I don't think 24 is exactly the pinnacle of storytelling we should be shooting for, but even their implementation was better because it didn't result in a full-on ****ing Red Dawn style invasion. The way that happened and how they explained it was absurd, as I explained earlier.

I even specifically stated that Shepherd leaked Allen's involvement to Makarov.

But the point is that all this shit happened because of Shepherd's master plan to create patriots ... and that's retarded.

Spoiler

You said you wondered how Shepard could implement an agent into Makarov's unit so quickly, so it shows you didn't understand the involvement Shepard had with Makarov. Hence didn't understand the full story. He gets him in so quick because he's working with Makarov

I thought the story was fine, if a little over the top. You found it retarded, bully for you. I was just explaining how it is far less over the top than Metal Gears story. Which it is.

You really don't have ground to stand on here. Now you're accusing me of not understanding the story because I didn't fully flesh out certain sections of the synopsis, yet nothing you stated contradicted what I said.

See above.

The point here is unlike what you've said previously, MW2 is a big departure from previous CoD's. It is more ridiculous and far more stupid - and yes, like a Michael Bay movie. It isn't "modern warfare" at all. I don't like that.

No, I said it was continuing what MW1 set up and is far less stupid than Metal Gear, at no point did I say it was less over the top than the WW2 based CoD's. Check again.

If you do, that's cool - but you have to admit that this is the case.

My basic outline is this. Modern Warfare's ending sets the tone for dumb action set pieces, the sequel carries this on. The story may or may not be the same as MGS's overarching story but MW2 does it in a FAR more believabley and in a far less sci-fi way.

Now read the above, get off your soap box and realise what I am saying.

the robots are central to the story cuz they are weapons made to launch a nuclear warhead to any place,if you switched the robot for a big truck whit the same function the whole thing would be the same

and duh is sci fi but not star trek like sci fi

So your saying a massive army of office block tall nuclear armed bipedal robots and a story of nano enhanced cannibals and clones of the ultimate army soldier falls into the same league of believability as a Russian armed submarine, a sepc ops team,the Rangers and

Spoiler

a corrupt Military official?

Go away.

 

[Eejit]

When a more sci-fi setting presents us with such a retarded plot we're already suspending disbelief quite a lot, so it's easier to swallow (not that I do, personally) - but a game which is otherwise meant to be quite realistic has such a joke of a story it just appears as poorly written as they both are.

 

[Asknoone]

What is more, Metal Gear Solid - a series I don't necessarily want to defend, as I am no fan of Kojima's magnum opus - does not compromise. CoD is what it is to appeal to its moron demographic; and to actually go out of your way to defend such populist rubbish is an absurdity all in itself.

 

[stemot]

What is more, Metal Gear Solid - a series I don't necessarily want to defend, as I am no fan of Kojima's magnum opus - does not compromise. CoD is what it is to appeal to its moron demographic; and to actually go out of your way to defend such populist rubbish is an absurdity all in itself.

Again, you seem to think I'm defending it. I am simply stating facts. The story is less ridiculous than MGS2, and it continues on from the same stuff that MW1 did. Does nobody read on these forums?

Did I find the game enjoyable? Yes. Is the story completely over the top? Yes. Is it less over the top than MGS? Yes. Would I expect Samon to enjoy it?

 

[Absinthe]

Story sucks, brah.

 

[jimbo118]

So your saying a massive army of office block tall nuclear armed bipedal robots and a story of nano enhanced cannibals.

wut

chrs

 

[stemot]

wut

chrs

This is what I was told Vamp was, you know, because this is less ridiculous than Vampires.

 

[jimbo118]

Vampires eat flesh now?

 

[stemot]

Vampires eat flesh now?

Apparently so.

 

[Asknoone]

Vampires eat flesh now?

I think that depends on what you've been reading.

 

[Rizzo]

Vamp from MGS2 does eat flesh. Not so sure about the ones from Twilight. But they sparkle!

Oh, how they sparkle.

 

[<RJMC>]

So your saying a massive army of office block tall nuclear armed bipedal robots and a story of nano enhanced cannibals and clones of the ultimate army soldier falls into the same league of believability as a Russian armed submarine, a sepc ops team,the Rangers and

Spoiler

a corrupt Military official?

Go away.

as I said take the robots and such out

there is also tons of "oh my god he was working for the enemy" moments too and its tecnically the main plot device of the whole series

dont tell me thats diferent that

Spoiler

makarov and sheperd working together to make theyr plans

"of course is not cuz there is no robots dude!"

in the first game you are a agent of the usa infiltrating a military base that was seized by a bunch of rogue soldiers menacing to detonate a nuclear weapon,the rest of the story appears as the game unfold,see I didnt mentioned anything about robots

"but dude there are not robots in mw2! thats why there is zero similiarity dude and the sotryline is so original like the begining whit that monologue about how war changes dude!"

 

[stemot]

as I said take the robots and such out

there is also tons of "oh my god he was working for the enemy" moments too and its tecnically the main plot device of the whole series

dont tell me thats diferent that

Spoiler

makarov and sheperd working together to make theyr plans

"of course is not cuz there is no robots dude!"

in the first game you are a agent of the usa infiltrating a military base that was seized by a bunch of rogue soldiers menacing to detonate a nuclear weapon,the rest of the story appears as the game unfold,see I didnt mentioned anything about robots

"but dude there are not robots in mw2! thats why there is zero similiarity dude and the sotryline is so original like the begining whit that monologue about how war changes dude!"

With that you completely missed the point of me saying that MGS2's story is made up of much more far fetched and fantastical content than MW2 even if the overall story is similar.

As far the first game, well, it features Psychics that can hover and levitate while chucking books and tables at you using their mind. Genetic clones of super soldiers, again, massive nuclear bipedal robots.

I really don't see why people can't grasp that what I am saying is MGS2 contains much more far fetched subject matter because of it's sci-fi nature. i never for once said that was a bad thing. I said it was garbage, because it's all nonsense, but the game is enjoyable anyway, Like MW1 and 2.

I'm simply saying that MGS2 is FAR more over the top than MW2 in terms of it's storyline content.

I also never for one minute suggested MW2 story was original, as it has basically ripped the story from both 24 season 7 and World In Conflict, not to mention some aspects of Metal Gear as you like to keep reminding me. Again, I simply stated that MW2 was nowhere near as over the top as MGS.

 

[smwScott]

My basic outline is this. Modern Warfare's ending sets the tone for dumb action set pieces, the sequel carries this on. The story may or may not be the same as MGS's overarching story but MW2 does it in a FAR more believabley and in a far less sci-fi way.

Now read the above, get off your soap box and realise what I am saying.

What you're saying now isn't what you were saying before. Not only that, but MW2 is not a logical continuation of MW1.

They specifically changed the entire tone to appeal to ****ing morons. That's why there is an abundance of Desert Eagles. That's why you can dual wield Uzis and fully-automatic pistols. That's why there's sections where you race snowmobiles down a mountain while shooting said automatic-pistol and jumping over canyons. That's why there's a similarly ridiculous boat race sequence involving Uzis and waterfalls.

And, of course, that's why there's a dumb and childish plot with a lot of stupid twists and turns - very similar to what you would find in a Michael Bay movie, 24, or MGS.

Let me spell this out, because I don't think I've been clear enough. In addition to just being shit, my main problem with the direction MW2 has taken is a clear shift in tone favoring wanna be gangstas, frat boys, 12 year old boys, and other assortments of douche bags.

And yes, this is all decidedly different from MW1 and the WW2 games - and no, a somewhat over the top action scene at the end of MW1 (similar to what was present before in the WW2 games) does not justify all this bullshit.

And no, I didn't want a super realistic no flaws story mode, I just wanted something believable. Let me put it this way - I wanted Casino Royale, I got Die Another Day.

 

[Combine Hybrid]

Apparently so.

Vamp does NOT eat flash. Go play MGS2.

 

[stemot]

What you're saying now isn't what you were saying before. Not only that, but MW2 is not a logical continuation of MW1.

They specifically changed the entire tone to appeal to ****ing morons. That's why there is an abundance of Desert Eagles. That's why you can dual wield Uzis and fully-automatic pistols. That's why there's sections where you race snowmobiles down a mountain while shooting said automatic-pistol and jumping over canyons. That's why there's a similarly ridiculous boat race sequence involving Uzis and waterfalls.

And, of course, that's why there's a dumb and childish plot with a lot of stupid twists and turns - very similar to what you would find in a Michael Bay movie, 24, or MGS.

Let me spell this out, because I don't think I've been clear enough. In addition to just being shit, my main problem with the direction MW2 has taken is a clear shift in tone favoring wanna be gangstas, frat boys, 12 year old boys, and other assortments of douche bags.

And yes, this is all decidedly different from MW1 and the WW2 games - and no, a somewhat over the top action scene at the end of MW1 (similar to what was present before in the WW2 games) does not justify all this bullshit.

And no, I didn't want a super realistic no flaws story mode, I just wanted something believable. Let me put it this way - I wanted Casino Royale, I got Die Another Day.

Well fine, it is what I was saying before and I feel it's a logical continuation of MW1. I also feel the game is a brilliant single player experience. I also mentioned already the game takes most it's nods from 24 and Michael Bay, so I see you missed that too. You don't like it, whatever, but it clearly continues the campaign mode of MW1 successfully and continues it's over the top story.

You feel they desecrated your beloved serious MW1 in which nothing over top ever took place even though the first game had you running through missile silo blast tubes and closing the door on a rocket launch explosion just in time, had you escaping along a main highway with trucks exploding left and right with a hind chasing you down. Had a mission where you rappel from an exploding building narrowly missing certain death, in which your buddy gets crushed by an exploding helicopter that stops just before it fully squishes him then forces you to carry him through a town full of russian soldiers and dogs being the one man army that drags his wounded buddy to safety. Please don't pretend that kind of thing was unique to MW2 when the first game had it in abundance. You wanted something like Casino Royale yet were happy with the action MW1 not falling into action film territory? I got news for you pal. It did.

Now I love the first game as much as the second, but you cannot be so blind as to not know that the first game did these things as well.

Vamp does NOT eat flash. Go play MGS2.

I was simply quoting information I had been given elsewhere in this thread, I have played MGS2 and he only drank blood. I have not played MGS4 so I cannot say what he does or does not do in that game. I was told that he was not a Vampire but a nanotechnological Cannibal.

 

[smwScott]

This is done. Here's Wikipedia's synopses for both ... people can decide for themselves. Just reading these two links proves my point better than I ever could.

MW2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Warfare_2#Synopsis

CoD4:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty_4:_Modern_Warfare#Synopsis

 

[unozero]

bitch you better hold up now your dissin' MGS
Thats not cool.

 

[Gargantou]

bitch you better hold up now your dissin' MGS
Thats not cool.

[AWSOMPIC]

Oh man I just laughed my bloody genitalia off IRL, honestly!

Your sentences coupled with that picture is just awesome.

And I agree with you! While fo sho MGS be fantastical and all dat, it don't be pretendin' to be nothin' else, dawg!

I don't see how an ordinary human called Vamp being given regenerative abilities through nanomachines is any more fantastical than MGS1 where you had a psychic mantis that was all like "I can read dem minds and that bitch is in love with you fo sho, so I'm gonna make you shoot her, foo'!"