Republican: women who have abortions later risk having kids with birth defects...

[CptStern]

..as punishment from god

"The number of children who are born subsequent to a first abortion who have handicaps has increased dramatically. Why? Because when you abort the firstborn of any, nature takes its vengeance on the subsequent children," Marshall said. "In the Old Testament, the firstborn of every being, animal and man, was dedicated to the Lord. There's a special punishment Christians would suggest - and with the knowledge that they have in faith, it's been verified by a study from Virginia Commonwealth University - first abortions, of a first pregnancy, are much more damaging than later abortions."

Virginia Delegate Robert G. Marshall apologized this week to people with disabilities for remarks suggesting that women who have abortions later risk having children with birth defects as a punishment from God. The Republican state lawmaker from Prince William made the comment last week at a news conference calling for an end to state funding to Planned Parenthood. Calling the nonprofit group "Planned Barrenhood"

separation of church and state ring a bell? he should be drawn and quartered


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/w...4/va_delegate_apologizes_for_abortion_remark/

 

[The Monkey]

Wouldn't a good God find another way to punish their mother that didn't involve herchildren? Why should her later children take the punishment what their mother has done? I try to understand these Christians, it's quite hard.

 

[No Limit]

first abortions, of a first pregnancy, are much more damaging than later abortions."

That's good to know. So once you've had one you might as well have many more.

 

[CptStern]

the thing is that he lied about the study that linked abortion with disabilities

" that study compared women who had had one, two or three previous abortions to women who had had none -- not women who had "first abortions" to "later abortions" -- and as one of the authors, Dr. Saba W. Masho, told me in an e-mail, it only "drew a link to subsequent low birth weight and preterm birth, not to any disabilities." So, basically, the study demonstrates that abortion is a risk factor for a risk factor for disabilities, not that having an abortion will cause nature to seek vengeance on your future children, or that terminating your first pregnancy is "more damaging" than terminating a later one "

http://mobile.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2010/02/23/bob_marshall/index.html

 

[Mr Stabby]

Sarah Palin obviously had an abortion she's keeping quiet about.

 

[CptStern]

lol. now they cant possibly pin it on the daughter

 

[lord_raken]

Politicians have the right to free speech just as every other American has. If he want to talk about how God enacts vengeance for abortions upon the mother by disfiguring her children then he as the right to do so.

Separation of church and state only covers the enacting of laws that would favor one religion over another (supporting one while restricting or outlawing another). You should all be smart enough to realize that is impossible to keep religion out of politics. Politicians will use their personal faith (or lack their of) to gain support ans win elections.

Personally I think that what this guy said was Fundamentalist dribble and that he couldn't be further from the truth, but I'm not going to demand that he be brought before a court or punished for what he says.

 

[Raziaar]

Wackjob is a wackjob, end of story.

Also... I hope most women don't put themselves into situations that they need multiple abortions. Be more responsible...

 

[jverne]

I might be mistaken, but time ago i remember someone told me that abortions can cause lasting effects...not sure if it was for the mother or the subsequent child.
Generally abortions make women that don't seem to care in the first place. Any educated person would stick to contraception.

 

[lord_raken]

I might be mistaken, but time ago i remember someone told me that abortions can cause lasting effects...not sure if it was for the mother or the subsequent child.
Generally abortions make women that don't seem to care in the first place. Any educated person would stick to contraception.

I think you may be right. I've heard (don't quote me on this) that, just like with C-sections, having an abortion can put additional risks of future pregnancies... I think.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Generally abortions make women that don't seem to care in the first place. Any educated person would stick to contraception.

He shoots, he scores! Ladies and gentlemen, jverne after a long time on the bench is finally back in the game and saying stupid things without thinking!

 

[CptStern]

ya well that's really not saying anything because what does "risk" entail? risk of death risk of prematurity risk of what exactly?

" " that study compared women who had had one, two or three previous abortions to women who had had none -- not women who had "first abortions" to "later abortions" -- and as one of the authors, Dr. Saba W. Masho, told me in an e-mail, it only "drew a link to subsequent low birth weight and preterm birth, not to any disabilities." So, basically, the study demonstrates that abortion is a risk factor for a risk factor for disabilities, not that having an abortion will cause nature to seek vengeance on your future children, or that terminating your first pregnancy is "more damaging" than terminating a later one "

they stack the deck to get the conclusion they're looking for. the problem is that religious institutions disseminate so much bullshit that the medical community has to bend over backwards to disprove their idiotic attempts at disuading women from having abortions. these people do far more damage to public perception than good. you literally have to wade through pages and pages of misinformation pushed by religious institutions every single time you do a search on anything relating to abortion. they would have us returning to the days where backalley abortions are the norm. where's their concern for woman who put their lives at risk by having an unsafe abortion and the end of coathanger?

Generally abortions make women that don't seem to care in the first place. Any educated person would stick to contraception.

I'm sure you've used contraception every single time, right? your statement doesnt leave room for mistakes. also how do you know women who have abortions "just dont seem to care in the first place" that's a pretty loaded statement with nothing to back you up

also you dont take into accouint all those woman who's lives are in jeopardy ..were they just uneducated people who failed to take contraception? what about rape? what about congenitative defects that leave the parent no choice but to come to the hardest decision they'll ever have to make? you do an injustice to all the woman out there who had to make this life changing choice by flippantly declaring they "just dont care". bottom line is you have absolutely NO say in what other people do with their lives and until you walk a mile in their shoes you cannot in any way judge what led them to their decision

 

[Eejit]

No but stern they heard it somewhere. You can't beat that with your fancy "evidence".

 

[No Limit]

Generally abortions make women that don't seem to care in the first place. Any educated person would stick to contraception.

I think I found the problem, you need to get laid more often.

 

[Noodle]

Be more responsible...

For real...

Although there's another side to this. If a woman is irresponsible enough to keep needing abortions willy-nilly, she's probably not fit to raise children anyway.

Separation of church and state only covers the enacting of laws that would favor one religion over another (supporting one while restricting or outlawing another). You should all be smart enough to realize that is impossible to keep religion out of politics. Politicians will use their personal faith (or lack their of) to gain support ans win elections.

It also covers the pure endorsement of a specific religion. As well, it SHOULD cover the creation of policies that are based purely on religious belief and nothing else. Abortion is on the line there, since the idea that life begins at conception isn't strictly religious, but the reasoning behind it is often (but not always) the "because God said so" line.

Personally I think that what this guy said was Fundamentalist dribble and that he couldn't be further from the truth, but I'm not going to demand that he be brought before a court or punished for what he says.

Couldn't have said that better myself. I can't stand fundamentalist BS.

 

[CptStern]

For real...

Although there's another side to this. If a woman is irresponsible enough to keep needing abortions willy-nilly, she's probably not fit to raise children anyway.

you make it sound like it's just a simple matter of "oh well I'll just take this pill and everything will a ok". how often did you take the initiative by insisting some form of contraception be in place before you have sex? you're a guy I'm betting it's not "100% of the time". it's easy being an armchair critic when you dont actually have to follow your own advice

what about social stigma?

" For women having abortions, 43% are Protestant and 27% identify as Catholic."

surely irresponsible christians ranting about the evils of contraception must have something to do with this


education certainly plays a role in this.

There have been significant declines in pregnancy, birth, and abortion rates for teenagers over the past decade. From 1990 to 2002, the pregnancy rate among 15 to 17 year-olds decreased 42%, from 77.1 per 1,000 females to 44.4. The birth rate declined 45%, from its peak at 38.6 per 1,000 in 1991 to 21.4 per 1,000 in 2005.3 In 2002, more than 750,000 pregnancies among U.S. teenagers, aged 15 to 19 years resulted in 425,000 live births, 215,000 abortions, and 117,000 fetal losses.

Though we are close to the overall decreased teen pregnancy goal for 2010 for the nation, major disparities in pregnancy and birth rates and contraceptive use exist when we look at data by race/ethnicity and for individual states. Black and Hispanic youth are disproportionately affected compared to whites. For example, 2002 pregnancy rates for Non-Hispanic black and Hispanic teenagers aged 15 to 17 were similar (88.4 and 85.1 per 1000, respectively). Both were about 3.5 times the rate of non-Hispanic white teens (25.1 per 1,000) and double the Healthy People 2010 goal of 43.0. A wide range of teen birth rates are seen among states, ranging from 62.6 (Texas) to 18.2 (New Hampshire) per 1,000 in 2004.

International comparisons show that the United States could do much better in improving teen pregnancy and birth rates. U.S. teen pregnancy and teen birth rates are the second highest among 46 countries in the developed world. These data show that U.S. teens' sexual behavior is similar to teens of other developed countries in terms of when they start to have sex and how often they are having it. Yet, U.S. teens are less likely to use contraception or to consistently use more effective methods of contraception when compared to the teens of several other developed countries. Recent data show that 77% of the decline in teen pregnancy rates among U.S. teens aged 15 tp 17 years is because teens have increased their use of contraception and 23% of the decline is because teens are having less sex. Among older U.S. teens, 18 to 19 years, this data showed that all the reduction in pregnancy risk was related to increased contraceptive use. Effective pregnancy prevention programs exist that have been shown to be successful at delaying intercourse initiation and increasing rates of contraceptive use.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/pregadol.htm

 

[Noodle]

how often did you take the initiative by insisting some form of contraception be in place before you have sex? you're a guy I'm betting it's not "100% of the time". it's easy being an armchair critic when you dont actually have to follow your own advice

I'm paranoid about that kinda stuff, and I'm definitely not being a hypocrite here.

 

[CptStern]

ok well you';re equally (ir)responsible then

 

[No Limit]

I'm paranoid about that kinda stuff, and I'm definitely not being a hypocrite here.

You're not even 18 yet, right?

 

[Kaptain H]

Hmm, there has to be a loophole. Maybe God won't get as mad if you save your abortion for the potential second kid. That's what I'm getting from the Old Testament, anyway. Then your third can come out fine!

 

[Acepilotf14]

Wouldn't a good God find another way to punish their mother that didn't involve herchildren? Why should her later children take the punishment what their mother has done? I try to understand these Christians, it's quite hard.

Sins of their fathers.

There's like a whole story around that, I think, but I can't be assed to look it up.

 

[Noodle]

You're not even 18 yet, right?

Yeah, I'm definitely past that... don't be stupid.

I have the sense of being trolled...

 

[No Limit]

You're not being trolled, it's a valid question. If you aren't even 18 yet I don't know how many sexual encounters you could have possibly have had in your life. And if you insist that some form of contraception was in place each time then that tells me it hasn't been very many.

 

[CptStern]

I've got a rubber in my wallet.
One of those little whatchamacallit's.
I'm savin' it for that special day.
When the right girl comes my way.

It leaves a circular impression
From all those years of compression.
I've had it since I turned thirteen.
I got it in a vend'n machine.

[Chorus]
Circ circ circular impression!
Leading to a state of depression!
In my walla walla walla walla wallet!
I can't wait to install it!

No! I can't wait!

It's in a little tinfoil packet.
Sometimes I'm tempted to unwrap it.
It's got a reinforced border.
I hope it's still in working order.

"Be Prepared" they said in Boy Scouts.
I'm waiting for a chance to try it out.
I want to try this contraceptive.
But all the girls are unreceptive.

[Chorus]

I've got a French safe in my pocket.
It'll be the nose-cone on my rocket.
It comes direct from Paris, France.
Can't wait to take it from my pants.
Huhuh!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgOfJ5gK6ts

 

[Noodle]

You're not being trolled, it's a valid question. If you aren't even 18 yet I don't know how many sexual encounters you could have possibly have had in your life. And if you insist that some form of contraception was in place each time then that tells me it hasn't been very many.

My age is irrelevant, and you should really refrain from making such blind generalizations.

 

[No Limit]

My age is irrelevant, and you should really refrain from making such blind generalizations.

And you should really refrain from getting your panties in a bunch.

I just dont believe any person that tells me they are sexually active and at the same time religious about contraception. Contraception with the exemption of a few cases is extremely inconvenient and as a result gets passed up often when you are thinking with your dick.

 

[CyberPitz]

And you should really refrain from getting your panties in a bunch.

I just dont believe any person that tells me they are sexually active and at the same time religious about contraception. Contraception with the exemption of a few cases is extremely inconvenient and as a result gets passed up often when you are thinking with your dick.

This man speaks the truth.