The top five myths about the United States

Glo-Boy

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Got this in my email - it outta rev things up.

THE TOP FIVE MYTHS ABOUT THE US

MYTH 1: The US was founded on Christian principles.

TRUTH:

This is incorrect.
The Constitution never once mentions a deity, because the Founding Fathers wanted to keep their new country "religion-neutral." Our Founding Fathers were an eclectic collection of Atheists, Deists, Christians, Freemasons and Agnostics.

George Washington, the Father of our country, and John Adams (Second President of the USA) CLEARLY stated in the 1796 Treaty of Tripoli: "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian Religion."

G.W. rarely attended church and instead followed a popular 18th century philosophy called Deism—a Star Wars-esque philosophy that believed in a cosmic energy or big-ass universal "Force." The dictionary says that Deism is "a system of thought advocating natural religion based on human reason rather than revelation," that had nothing to do with Christian principles.

James Madison, original mastermind of our Constitution, was an Atheist to the core who loved skewering Christianity. In 1785 he wrote, "What have been [Christianity's] fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Thomas Jefferson, who sat down and authored The Declaration of Independence, rarely missed an opportunity to laugh at Christianity. In a letter to John Adams in 1823, he wrote: "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus…will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

More ammo: In 1814, Tommy J. wrote about the Bible's Old and New Testaments, "The whole history of these books is so defective and doubtful -- evidence that parts have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds."

In fact, it was President Jefferson himself who first wrote (to a Baptist church group in 1802), "The First Amendment has erected a wall of separation between Church and State." Therefore, when Jefferson talked about "Nature's God," the "Creator" and "divine Providence " in the Declaration that he wrote, he was being a hippie and referring to a general cosmic energy-- not the Christian God.

America is not a Christian nation. Period. Our Constitution derived from the post-Christian Enlightenment values of reason and truth...never from the paranoid yammerings of that otherwise compassionate cult leader who f-cking died in the Middle Eastern desert 3000 years ago.


MYTH 2: US Conservatives tend to be patriotic, ethical Americans; liberals tend to hate America and are immoral.

TRUTH:

Liberals aren't the traitors to America. In fact, conservatives who insist on sending American troops into the Iraqi slaughterhouse to watch some blood-n'-guts "towelhead" ass-kickin' are the traitors. Most of them could care less about our troops, no more than Mao or Stalin cared about the safety of their own soldiers. In the neocons' view, these young boys and girls are expendable test dummies. They're dying for virtually nothing, so that the hicks in the Bush Admin can make good on their campaign promises to their buddies from the petroleum and infrastructure-rebuilding industries. By revving up the Arab threat, these MFs can scream "national security" and "freedom" as smokescreens, while getting their hands on a diminishing resource: Middle Eastern fossil fuels, which power everything from your lightbulbs and computer that you leave on all night, to your stupid gas-guzzler pickup truck.

Pro-war conservatives are the traitors to America. With only 29% of the public approving of Bush's policies now, it took a full 5 years for America to finally wake up in bed next to this disgusting fact.

Do liberals hate America? No, in fact they care so much about the USA that they fight so aggressively to make it better. They're not anti-American; they're just anti-stupidity. Do liberals hate American policies? Sometimes, but only the self-destructive ones that threaten human rights, liberty, democracy, justice, inquiry, excellence and reason-- the values that our country was founded upon.

As for conservative moral superiority? Frauds. Think of the child-molesting priests, money-scamming televangelist preachers, Jack Abramoff's friends in the Bush Admin, gay-hating Jesus lovers, the Christians who beat up the professor who opposed intelligent design, human rights violators like Lynndie England and her Abu Ghraib hick officer pals, Tommy "Scandal-icious" Delay, Scooter "Leaky" Libby, the entire K Street Project meant to hire only Republicans, FEMA's Michael "Yer doin' a heckuva job" Brownie, and so on.

Oh and by the way, conservative Red states have a divorce rate 27% higher than the liberal Blue states, the per capita rate of violent crime in Red states is 49 per 100,000 higher than in Blue states, the top 5 states with the highest rates of alcohol abuse are Red states, and the per capita rate of gonorrhea in Red states was 41 per 100,000 higher than in the Blue states. Time to unshelf the antibiotics for our "ethical," "God-fearing" conservative friends with their "traditional family values."


MYTH 3. The US has a liberal media.

TRUTH:

This is a paranoid Republican myth.
Reality check: the US media is a mix of liberal, centrist and conservative voices. Also, the US media is largely owned by 10 corporations who frequently push pro-conservative agendas to the American public. Evidence:

1. Even Republican Pat Buchanan confessed, "For heaven sakes, we kid about the liberal media, but every Republican on earth does that." Neo-conservative pundit Bill Kristol also said, "I admit it: the liberal media were never that powerful, and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures."

2. A 2005 study in the Quarterly Journal of Economics found that "coverage by public television and radio is conservative compared to the rest of the mainstream media." Why? Partly because only four major corporate networks control American TV news-- up to 75% of the audience share. The "Big 10" media conglomerates who control the bulk of the entire US media are: AOL Time Warner, Disney, General Electric, News Corporation, Viacom, Vivendi, Sony, Bertelsmann, AT&T and Liberty Media. Yes, we have National Public Radio, but compare its public reach to that of Canada's CBC and the United Kingdom's BBC.

3. Eighty percent of all US newspapers are owned by corporate chains.

4. Liberals are virtually non-existent on talk radio stations nationwide. Rush and Dr. Laura, eat your hearts out.

5. Conservatives are very well accomodated for across FOX News, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Times, the New York Post, the American Spectator, the Weekly Standard, the Drudge Report, the National Review, etc. Even so-called "bastions of liberalism," e.g. the NY Times, MSNBC, WashPost and NPR make a concerted effort to be "fair and balanced" by bringing in right-wing views like those of David Brooks, Joe Scarborough, Tucker Carlson, Charles Krauthammer and Cokie Roberts to have their say in these forums, respectively. This is in stark contrast to FOX News' claims to unbiased objectivity, which were easily demolished by Robert Greenwald in 2004.

6. Contrary to what some paranoid Republicans claim, most journalists are centrists, not liberals. A representative sample of 141 US journalists and bureau chiefs were asked in 1998, "On social issues, how would you characterize your political orientation?" Answers: Left 30%, Center 57%, Right 9%, Other 5% . Next question, same sample: "On economic issues, how would you characterize your political orientation? " Answers: Left 11%, Center 64%, Right 19%, Other 5%. Also, look at the total number of think tank citations in major newspapers, radio and TV transcripts: Conservative TTs: 7792, Centrist TTs: 6361, Liberal TTs: 1152.

7. Eric Alterman summarizes a 1999 research study from the academic journal Communications Research: "Four scholars examined the use of the 'liberal media' argument and discovered a fourfold increase in the number of Americans telling pollsters that they discerned a liberal bias in their news. But a review of the media's actual ideological content, collected and coded over a twelve-year period, offered no corroboration whatever for this view."


MYTH 4. The US doesn't need improvement compared to other countries; it is the greatest country in the world.

TRUTH:
Wrong again. I'll only cite the statistics here.

USA Ranking on Adult Literacy Scale: #9
(#1 Sweden and #2 Norway)- OECD

USA Ranking on Healthcare Quality Index: #37
(#1 France and #2 Italy)- World Health Organization 2003

USA Ranking of Student Reading Ability: #12
(#1 Finland and #2 South Korea)- OECD PISA 2003

USA Ranking of Student Problem Solving Ability: #26
(#1 South Korea and #2 Finland)- OECD PISA 2003

USA Ranking on Student Mathematics Ability: # 24
(#1 Hong Kong and #2 Finland)- OECD PISA 2003

USA Ranking of Student Science Ability: #19
(#1 Finland and #2 Japan)- OECD PISA 2003

USA Ranking on Women's Rights Scale: #17
(#1 Sweden and #2 Norway)- World Economic Forum Report

USA Position on Timeline of Gay Rights Progress: # 6 (1997)
(#1 Sweden 1987 and #2 Norway 1993)- Vexen

USA Ranking on Life Expectancy: #29
(#1 Japan and #2 Hong Kong)- UN Human Development Report 2005

USA Ranking on Journalistic Press Freedom Index: #32
(#1 Finland, Iceland, Norway and the Netherlands tied)- Reporters Without Borders 2005

USA Ranking on Political Corruption Index: #17
(#1 Iceland and #2 Finland)- Transparency International 2005

USA Ranking on Quality of Life Survey: #13
(#1 Ireland and #2 Switzerland)- The Economist Magazine ...Wikipedia "Celtic Tiger" if you still have your doubts.

USA Ranking on Environmental Sustainability Index: #45
(#1 Finland and #2 Norway)- Yale University ESI 2005

USA Ranking on Overall Currency Strength: #3 (US Dollar)
(#1 UK pound sterling and #2 European Union euro)- FTSE 2006....the dollar is now a liability, so many banks worldwide have planned to switch to euro

USA Ranking on Infant Mortality Rate: #32
(#1 Sweden and #2 Finland)- Save the Children Report 2006

USA Ranking on Human Development Index (GDP, education, etc.): #10
(#1 Norway and #2 Iceland)- UN Human Development Report 2005


So much for those "socialist" Europeans and those "backward" Asians, hm?
We can do better than this.

Miscellany:
*Only 18% of Americans own passports and bother to travel outside of the US.
* 85% of US soldiers in Iraq believe that they are there to get revenge for 9/11.
* New international student enrollment in US grad schools has decreased by 6%, because of xenophobic post-9/11 US visa restrictions, jacked-up tuition fees and better educational opportunities in the EU and Asia. So no, not everyone wants to come here anymore, because it's become a land of incredibly limited opportunity, and we've lowered our educational standards.


MYTH 5: The US government loves to help other countries.

TRUTH:
This is a myth. The US government tends to be motivated by interests, not humanitarian principles.

Denmark gives the most amount of its GDP (1.01%) to developing countries; Norway gives 0.91%; the Netherlands give 0.79% and so on until the end of list, where the USA sits. Yes, America ranks DEAD LAST in foreign aid at a pathetic 0.1% of its GDP, compared to the other 21 nations listed as developed nations. The idea that the US government is a heroic bunch that runs around the world helping the poor and the disempowered is not backed up by the evidence. We have one of the stingiest governments on earth.

Most Americans believe the US spends 24% of its budget on aid to poor countries; the actual amount is well under a quarter of 1%. Our country also ranks #5 on asylum-seeker acceptance rates (#1 is Denmark and #2 is Canada).

For you self-congratulatory, redneck-inspired conservative ****wads who will start to say, "B-b-b-but you're anti-American! M-m-m-moonbat! G-g-g-god bless the USA!" I answer, "Go f-ck yourself. We can do better." Stop blindly believing everything your president tells you. Come back to us only when you start realizing that the $400 billion your president has allocated to his Roman Empire-style military overstretch could be better spent on correcting the sociopolitical and economic problems in the arenas that I've listed above.

For you liberal sh-t-heels who will start to say, "Yeah! Right on!" I answer, "Grow some f-cking balls." That goes for women and the LGBT community too, and don't call me a sexist either: I'm more than comfortable with being a female, but I believe balls can be useful in situations like these. Instead, stop apologizing for being the "liberal elite," and start championing un-abashed excellence in everything, not mediocrity. Help your reps and senators take back Congress, and stop dithering while the political tides are turning in your favor right now. The conservatives are terrified now; TAKE advantage of that. And don't waste time trying to explain rational things to any homophobic Christians, or hyper-patriotic losers who wave and cheapen our American flag only for a self-esteem buzz, or those testosterone-filled, gullible, culturally-ignorant military recruiter robots who lack even a basic intelligence. THEY CANNOT BE REASONED WITH. They don't understand statistics, elaborate charts, legislative proposals or complicated scientific explanations. Just let them go. Let them go.

In the meantime, stop being SHEEP and get up and do something before some bright and ambitious Chinese, Indian and the European students grow up to be international leaders and make your lazy, self-absorbed kids irrelevant on the world stage.
 
Those are all oppinions.

Myths are doubtful facts, not oppions.

Emailer loses.
 
sinkoman said:
Those are all oppinions.

Myths are doubtful facts, not oppions.

Emailer loses.


Please list the opinions, I don't know where you think you see them.
 
I always think i'm lucky to live in Australia...

Nice email - learn something every day!
 
too bad a quarter of one percent still dwarfs many other contributions.. look at the monetary value not the percent... we have better shit to spend money on like ****ing you up.
 
By "you", do you mean Iraq or the church-state separation explicitly outlined by the founding fathers?
 
Mechagodzilla said:
By "you", do you mean Iraq or the church-state separation explicitly outlined by the founding fathers?
both. and we've got plenty of bombs for the rest.
 
I'm sure it's been said before that sarcasm doesn't work when you actually believe it.

Whenever a thread establishes an error in conservative thinking, it seems to me that your reaction is to switch over to pretend-asshole mode, exaggerating the reality into some intentionally ridiculous fantasy.

It doesn't help anything when the reaction to facts is to create an elaborate mock-idiocy to coat them in a veneer of ironic fictionality.

It's totally disingenuous.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
I'm sure it's been said before that sarcasm doesn't work when you actually believe it.

Whenever a thread establishes an error in conservative thinking, it seems to me that your reaction is to switch over to pretend-asshole mode, exaggerating the reality into some intentionally ridiculous fantasy.

It doesn't help anything when the reaction to facts is to create an elaborate mock-idiocy to coat them in a veneer of ironic fictionality.

It's totally disingenuous.
i dont know what veneer means. i dont know what "ironic fictionality" is either.


whats disingenuous?
 
It means you're pretending to be an idiot.

I presume, in this case, it's to avoid having to actually contemplate tough questions or add to a discussion.

All you've presented of vague merit is the claim that percentage of GDP isn't relevant to foreign aid - the alternative to which isn't really a sensible way to measure such things on a diverse international scale.
Saying that US pays more unadjusted is meaningless posturing.
 
Glo-Boy said:
Please list the opinions, I don't know where you think you see them.

US Conservatives tend to be patriotic, ethical Americans; liberals tend to hate America and are immoral.

The US doesn't need improvement compared to other countries; it is the greatest country in the world.

The US government loves to help other countries.

Are you BLIND?
 
I'll trade Pes for gh0st please.
 
That's BAT**** insANE!

NO way. Pes is better out of here, i'm sad to say.

He was an aweshens dude, but the spam was unbearable. He posted a picture of a ****ing horse in the middle of the Suggestions board.

'Nuff said.

And way to derail the thread.
 
lol, I meant to say Pez, the candy :p
 
Glo-Boy said:
MYTH 4. The US doesn't need improvement compared to other countries; it is the greatest country in the world.

TRUTH:
Wrong again. I'll only cite the statistics here.

USA Ranking on Adult Literacy Scale: #9
(#1 Sweden and #2 Norway)- OECD

USA Ranking on Healthcare Quality Index: #37
(#1 France and #2 Italy)- World Health Organization 2003

USA Ranking of Student Reading Ability: #12
(#1 Finland and #2 South Korea)- OECD PISA 2003

USA Ranking of Student Problem Solving Ability: #26
(#1 South Korea and #2 Finland)- OECD PISA 2003

USA Ranking on Student Mathematics Ability: # 24
(#1 Hong Kong and #2 Finland)- OECD PISA 2003

USA Ranking of Student Science Ability: #19
(#1 Finland and #2 Japan)- OECD PISA 2003

USA Ranking on Women's Rights Scale: #17
(#1 Sweden and #2 Norway)- World Economic Forum Report

USA Position on Timeline of Gay Rights Progress: # 6 (1997)
(#1 Sweden 1987 and #2 Norway 1993)- Vexen

USA Ranking on Life Expectancy: #29
(#1 Japan and #2 Hong Kong)- UN Human Development Report 2005

USA Ranking on Journalistic Press Freedom Index: #32
(#1 Finland, Iceland, Norway and the Netherlands tied)- Reporters Without Borders 2005

USA Ranking on Political Corruption Index: #17
(#1 Iceland and #2 Finland)- Transparency International 2005

USA Ranking on Quality of Life Survey: #13
(#1 Ireland and #2 Switzerland)- The Economist Magazine ...Wikipedia "Celtic Tiger" if you still have your doubts.

USA Ranking on Environmental Sustainability Index: #45
(#1 Finland and #2 Norway)- Yale University ESI 2005

USA Ranking on Overall Currency Strength: #3 (US Dollar)
(#1 UK pound sterling and #2 European Union euro)- FTSE 2006....the dollar is now a liability, so many banks worldwide have planned to switch to euro

USA Ranking on Infant Mortality Rate: #32
(#1 Sweden and #2 Finland)- Save the Children Report 2006

USA Ranking on Human Development Index (GDP, education, etc.): #10
(#1 Norway and #2 Iceland)- UN Human Development Report 2005


So much for those "socialist" Europeans and those "backward" Asians, hm?
We can do better than this.

Miscellany:
*Only 18% of Americans own passports and bother to travel outside of the US.
* 85% of US soldiers in Iraq believe that they are there to get revenge for 9/11.
* New international student enrollment in US grad schools has decreased by 6%, because of xenophobic post-9/11 US visa restrictions, jacked-up tuition fees and better educational opportunities in the EU and Asia. So no, not everyone wants to come here anymore, because it's become a land of incredibly limited opportunity, and we've lowered our educational standards.

Most of that post was pretty opinionated, and as such isnt particularly useful in an argument. But the section I quoted is pretty hard to argue with. It should hopefully put the kibosh on the 'we're number one!' mentality of some Americans. As I always say, the US is good, but not the best.
 
gick said:
Most of that post was pretty opinionated, and as such isnt particularly useful in an argument. But the section I quoted is pretty hard to argue with. It should hopefully put the kibosh on the 'we're number one!' mentality of some Americans. As I always say, the US is good, but not the best.

I'm glad SOMEBODY agrees with me.
 
Are you saying that George Bush himself would oppose any of those 'opinions'?

"US Conservatives tend to be patriotic, ethical Americans; liberals tend to hate America and are immoral.

The US doesn't need improvement compared to other countries; it is the greatest country in the world.

The US government loves to help other countries."


These ARE MYTHS. They aren't just one person's opinion.
 
Nice facts Glo-Boy, recarding the history of America and how it began from the past till now.

Good questions the emailers had mailed you but the last mail or 5th myth is totally ironic.
 
Glo-Boy said:
Are you saying that George Bush himself would oppose any of those 'opinions'?

"US Conservatives tend to be patriotic, ethical Americans; liberals tend to hate America and are immoral.

The US doesn't need improvement compared to other countries; it is the greatest country in the world.

The US government loves to help other countries."


These ARE MYTHS. They aren't just one person's opinion.
You set up arguements no one was really making and then try to run through them and claim people are supporting American propping up myths when there's not really anyone saying them in the first place.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
You set up arguements no one was really making
:LOL:
So have you really never heard people touting America as a Christian nation? Christians especially do this a lot.

That conservatives are the moral people and liberals are the immoral ones?

You can listen to Sean Hannity or any other Republican mouth and hear about the "liberal media" once every three minutes.

This thread wins!
 
Raeven0 said:
:LOL:
So have you really never heard people touting America as a Christian nation? Christians especially do this a lot.

That conservatives are the moral people and liberals are the immoral ones?

You can listen to Sean Hannity or any other Republican mouth and hear about the "liberal media" once every three minutes.

This thread wins!
I am a conservative, could call me Republican. The founders of the nation were deists.

People make arguements both ways. "omg greedy conservatives want to keep their own money" "omg slutty liberals wanna have tits on tv"

Liberal media was not one of the items I quoted and it does exist.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
I am a conservative, could call me Republican. The founders of the nation were deists.

People make arguements both ways. "omg greedy conservatives want to keep their own money" "omg slutty liberals wanna have tits on tv"

Liberal media was not one of the items I quoted and it does exist.


yes but it's all relative ..is CNN liberal? not by any stretch of the imagination ..however in comparison to foxnews it does seem liberal

oh and whether or not the US is a christian nation is dependant on who you ask

"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." - George H Bush ...hard to deny
 
CptStern said:
yes but it's all relative ..is CNN liberal? not by any stretch of the imagination ..however in comparison to foxnews it does seem liberal

oh and whether or not the US is a christian nation is dependant on who you ask

"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." - George H Bush ...hard to deny
CNN is fairly liberal.

US today is a fairly Christian nation. Founded on many Christian/Judeo based principles sure. But founded on Christianity- no. Founding fathers were deists and this is reflected in many of our first documents.

One term president who's constituents turned against him to vote for Ross Perot. The only reason Bill Clinton won the '92 election.
 
The problem is that in general, "liberal" media, even if they have a leftward slant, try to remain "fair and balanced" in the name of fairness and objectivity, while conservative media often doesn't have that inclination.

The United States of America is not a Christian nation. God has no place in our government.

Also, Rakurai, saying that "You set up arguements no one was really making" makes you look like you don't pay attention to anything.

Ann Coulter is constantly spouting random bullshit about liberals, I've not seen a Republican who hasn't bitched about the 'liberal media' (oh, the truth hurts! i wish they'd stop telling it!), most people think the US is the greatest country in the world (I do as well, though not for the same reasons), and our PRESIDENT seems to think that God is backing him and that Christianity has a place in the government.
 
Ennui said:
The problem is that in general, "liberal" media, even if they have a leftward slant, try to remain "fair and balanced" in the name of fairness and objectivity, while conservative media often doesn't have that inclination.

The United States of America is not a Christian nation. God has no place in our government.

Also, Rakurai, saying that "You set up arguements no one was really making" makes you look like you don't pay attention to anything.

Ann Coulter is constantly spouting random bullshit about liberals, I've not seen a Republican who hasn't bitched about the 'liberal media' (oh, the truth hurts! i wish they'd stop telling it!), most people think the US is the greatest country in the world (I do as well, though not for the same reasons), and our PRESIDENT seems to think that God is backing him and that Christianity has a place in the government.

Liberal media issue was not quoted in my post.

Christianity DOES have large sway today. However, our nation was not founded on Christianity.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
CNN is fairly liberal.

in comparison to what? surely not the bbc, cbc, guardian, pbs, telegram, etc ..god even the nytimes defies being catagorised as liberal due to it's flipflopping on foreign policy

RakuraiTenjin said:
US today is a fairly Christian nation.

emphasis on today ..I've lived through clinton, bush sr, bush jr, reagan, carter, ford and nixon and I cant recall a period when christian principles have been this much in the forefront of american culture

RakuraiTenjin said:
Founded on many Christian/Judeo based principles sure. But founded on Christianity- no. Founding fathers were deists and this is reflected in many of our first documents.

I never argued it was a founded on christianity

RakuraiTenjin said:
One term president who's constituents turned against him to vote for Ross Perot. The only reason Bill Clinton won the '92 election.

doesnt excuse the fact that at the time the world's most powerful person is religious (borderline religious extremist as well). Also he's not the only one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1075950,00.html


“And without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure. If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.” - Ronald Reagan

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-news/1150617/posts
 
CptStern said:
in comparison to what? surely not the bbc, cbc, guardian, pbs, telegram, etc ..god even the nytimes defies being catagorised as liberal due to it's flipflopping on foreign policy
Oh man NYTimes is so far left. Conservative outlets and publications- Newsweek, Wall Street Journal, Fox News.


CptStern said:
emphasis on today ..I've lived through clinton, bush sr, bush jr, reagan, carter, ford and nixon and I cant recall a period when christian principles have been this much in the forefront of american culture


I never argued it was a founded on christianity
Never said you did- was addressing the original post and saying that while today it might be influenced by it, no one says it was at founding.


CptStern said:
doesnt excuse the fact that at the time the world's most powerful person is religious (borderline religious extremist as well). Also he's not the only one

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2005/10_october/06/bush.shtml
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1075950,00.html


“And without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure. If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.” - Ronald Reagan

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-news/1150617/posts
Don't care- the thread OP's myth was that 'US was founded on Christianity'

No one's saying that, that's what I'm saying- straw man arguement.
 
I'm willing to bet that George Bush probably thinks that the US was founded on principles of Christianity with Christian beliefs implied.
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
Oh man NYTimes is so far left. Conservative outlets and publications- Newsweek, Wall Street Journal, Fox News.

they flipflop

they also push conservative ideology ..like when they wrote a glowing article on CIA bankrolled wanted terrorist Luis Posada Cariles in which they portrayed him as a family man even though he admitted to being involved in terrorist attacks that killed civilians

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/






RakuraiTenjin said:
Don't care- the thread OP's myth was that 'US was founded on Christianity'

No one's saying that, that's what I'm saying- straw man arguement.

the straw man argument doesnt apply here because I didnt suggest that a few religious presidents automatically make the US a religious state ..that's why I said "depending on who you ask"


edit: ennui I'm loving your new deckard avatar :thumbs:
 
What's really amusing about the Christian Nation nonsense is that when the constitution was first debated and signed, the right wing of the day denounced it as satanic, godless, and said that america was doomed to failure because it would not acknowledge Jesus. It's only the most grudging that will admit that most of the key founders were deists and at best, UUs: but the religious right at the TIME outright called them heathens and atheists. How times change!

The constitution not only doesn't mention God, but it explicitly forbade using the government to push religious points of view AND abolished religious tests for office. The religious right thus spent the next two centuries explicitly trying to pass an amendment declaring the US a Christian nation. They failed. The best they've been able to get are some booby prizes like CHANGING the national motto and the pledge (how patriotic is THAT, eh?).

And now they want to ignore all that history and turn around and claim that the US has always been a good Christian nation where the government acknowledges God and its okay to lead students in prayer in school.
 
gh0st said:

Yes, it is right.

If a lowest-income person gives up his weekly salary of around 200$ to charity, that's a large sacrifice.
If Bill Gates gives up twice that much, that's still a tiny meaningless sacrifice. He makes that much cash every milisecond.

Gates could go WOO I PAID MORE I AM THE BEST in this example, but the reality is that he's doing the minimum possible.


Also, what's this RakuriTejuiney stuff about how none of these myths exist?

The gay marriage debate, the videogame debate, the creationism debate, etc. etc.

They all would not exist were it not for fierce religious ideology.
Irregardless of the past, the reality today is that a massive amount of americans wish to shit all over the constitution in the name of the lord, and are often succeeding.

The liberal media claim is likewise mythologized. Like the post said, the majority of American people believe there is a bias, when actually the media is predominately centrist.
Newscasters, being big white celebrities are slightly more likely to be socially liberal. But, being very rich, they are predominately economically conservative.

I have been constantly "informed" that a failure to support the Iraq war = friendship with terrorism, hatred of america or hatred of the troops.
Recently, some jackass in this forum claimed my entire nation, being more 'liberal' than the US is therefore weak and friendly to terrorists and liberals are trying to cover up that "fact".

Claiming that these myths don't exist or that they are unassailable opinions belies a vast gap in one's understanding of the reality.
 
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